Refuting the Claim that Bama Has Oversigned and Gray-shirted It's Way to Success...

deliveryman35

Hall of Fame
Jul 26, 2003
12,998
1,194
287
55
Gadsden, AL
I know this is an old and tired argument still used by all the Bama-haters out there, but as someone that is strictly a layman when it comes to understanding the whole oversigning/gray-shirting process, I'd be interested in hearing some informed, intelligently written rebuttals to this claim by some of you that understand it better so that I can properly respond when this is constantly brought up with some college football enthusiast/ acquaintances that I have.

Thanks.:)
 

Leeroy

All-SEC
Dec 27, 2005
1,279
335
107
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I refute nothing. If that is their idea about why we win, they're stupid to begin with and arguing with them is pointless.


Roll Tide
 

GreatDanish

Hall of Fame
Nov 22, 2005
6,079
0
0
TN
I would probably respond with just, "Yeah, it's awesome. Three out of four. You should try it."

2009:
28 signees
3 exhausted eligibility (Kirkpatrick, Richardson, and Carpenter)
16 still on roster
9 have left (via injury, transfer, etc.)
19/28 = 68%

2010:
26 signees
2 exhausted eligibility (B. Lewis and Dequan Menzie)
18 still on roster
1 didn't qualify (Alfy Hill)
5 have left (Carswell, Grant, Malone, P Sims, Williams)
20/25 = 80% (ignoring Hill)

I don't know results from other teams, but from our 2009 and 2010 classes, almost 70% and 80% seem to me like very good "retention" numbers.
 

jps1983

Hall of Fame
Aug 30, 2006
7,459
0
0
1. All teams are allowed a maximum total # of scholarship players on the active roster (Bama can't exceed that # with grayshirts)

2. All teams are allowed to have a total of 25 players per class. Some can backcount to the older class (we have some guys who just enrolled that count toward the 2012 class, rather than 2013, but the 2013 class cannot have more than 25 attributed to it); some guys don't qualify and until recently, Bama would let a kid sign with us who looked like he was 99% likely headed to JUCO (Belue; or look at Ole Miss when they signed 35+; most of those guys weren't close to qualifying).

3. Like every team, we've had players leave either for personal or medical reasons. Attrition happens at every school and our attrition rate isn't as bad as the barn's. So if this is the basis for the argument, then the barn should have won 3 out of 4 titles, rather than us.

4. I think there's an advantage to grayshirting some guys that need development, but we've probably grayshirted less than 10 total kids since CNS has been here. But for some prospects, having them enroll a semester later helps them get acclimated to college life and college football (S&C work mainly).

The basic argument is that Bama has to comply with the 85/25 scholly rules just like everyone else. We haven't grayshirted many kids and if they were, they weren't the guys going pro after 3 years. We have "oversigned" in the sense we have had more than 25 kids sign an LOI on NSD, but are still bound by the 85/25 rule: we back count (like all other programs) and some kids didn't qualify academically (like all other programs).

Honestly, ppl who make this argument are just looking for a reason to hate on Bama because we are not even close to the worst culprits of oversigning, so your argument may fall on deaf ears.
 
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Crimson1967

Hall of Fame
Nov 22, 2011
18,734
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I'm am pretty sure the NCAA requires Alabama and every other member institution to send in copies of every scholarship that is signed and they keep track of how many are on scholarship at any given time.
 

teamplayer

Hall of Fame
Jul 31, 2001
7,571
2,329
282
cullman, al, usa
We follow the same rules that every other team must follow, so I wouldn't respond to their claims at all, if I were you. Just smile and enjoy the ride that we are on right now.
 

B1GTide

TideFans Legend
Apr 13, 2012
45,499
46,842
187
You will never change the minds of people like this. You will talk in circles and your only accomplishment will be the management of your own frustration.
 

TIDE-HSV

Senior Administrator
Staff member
Oct 13, 1999
84,527
39,616
437
Huntsville, AL,USA
When they get through with greyshirting, oversigining, and processing players, they turn to steroids and other PEDs. It accomplished nothing to tell them that we have independent labs testing for all PEDs. Once the paranoia grows to the degree I've seen it on the ND sites, you're talking to people who are irrational. They have to explain their failure in some way. It can't be the obvious - better players, better coaching, better facilities, better S&C. No, it must be something totally unfair. Oh, forgot their academic excellence. (gag)...
 

deliveryman35

Hall of Fame
Jul 26, 2003
12,998
1,194
287
55
Gadsden, AL
Thanks for the info, guys. I know sometimes it's just best to laugh, shakes ones head, and walk away when this is brought up, but when I'm dealing with someone that's totally ignorant but open to being persuaded of the truth then I like to have some ammo to throw back at them.

Thanks again.
 

BigBama76

Suspended
Oct 26, 2011
1,002
0
0
Atlanta, GA
When they get through with greyshirting, oversigining, and processing players, they turn to steroids and other PEDs. It accomplished nothing to tell them that we have independent labs testing for all PEDs. Once the paranoia grows to the degree I've seen it on the ND sites, you're talking to people who are irrational. They have to explain their failure in some way. It can't be the obvious - better players, better coaching, better facilities, better S&C. No, it must be something totally unfair. Oh, forgot their academic excellence. (gag)...
I visited one of ND's forums and even they were talking about one particular ND forum where you would be banned for pretty much anything negative. Of course I had to see this forum and was not disappointed.

One guy was ranting about everything you've heard all the other haters rant about, over signing, grey shirting and the ND specialty, their academic standards and 97% graduation rate. Saban is an evil person as well because he signed 100 players in 4 years and ND only signed 81.

My first impulse was to respond but haters are going to hate, so let it go. CNS has brought our graduation rate up dramatically,(#6 I believe), which we all should be proud of.
 

JPT4Bama

Hall of Fame
Aug 21, 2006
5,793
0
0
Hoover, AL
It's the rules. We play by the same ones they do. I just wish 1941 was as easily refuted...
True. It's a heavy burden indeed. I was thinking of it just the other day. If not for 1941, if not for 1941. That's what I was thinking. To myself. Just the other day.
 

IH8Orange

Hall of Fame
Aug 14, 2000
7,017
31
0
Trussville, AL, USA
True. It's a heavy burden indeed. I was thinking of it just the other day. If not for 1941, if not for 1941. That's what I was thinking. To myself. Just the other day.
Wringing my hands over 1941 is what is responsible for my addiction to painkillers and my glue-sniffing and toad-licking habits. It's so disturbing, I may drink some Robitussin.
 

JPT4Bama

Hall of Fame
Aug 21, 2006
5,793
0
0
Hoover, AL
Wringing my hands over 1941 is what is responsible for my addiction to painkillers and my glue-sniffing and toad-licking habits. It's so disturbing, I may drink some Robitussin.
It's a pretty big deal.

Anyways, where can I score some toad these days? My source dried up.
 

Ole Man Dan

Hall of Fame
Apr 21, 2008
8,982
3,421
187
Gadsden, Al.
When the 'Over-signing bunch' starts up I like to mention that we have a high attrition rate
to the NFL.

That really gets them going... then I walk away. I think, It's their Ulcer, let them enjoy it,
it's all they've got.
 
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