OL Bradley Bozeman will greyshirt

B1GTide

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Repeatedly asking a kid about his GS situation, when he is OK with it somehow equals grilling a many-times-verified liar about his lies? I somehow miss the parallel.
Then you are not thinking it through. Had the press done a better job with Manti early on, the outcome would have been very different. Remember, he was a trusted player at the time that this began. The press has a job, and it is abdicating its responsibility if it just accepts everything that it is told at face value. By asking the same question a number of times in different ways, you can uncover lies and deception. It is hard to retell a lie exactly the same way, but if a person is telling the truth their story will remain consistent.
 
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bamahippie

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Then you are not thinking it through. Had the press done a better job with Manti early on, the utcome would have been very different. The press has a job, and it is abdicating its responsibility if it just accepts everything that it is told at face value. By asking the same question a number of times in different ways, you can uncover lies and deception. It is hard to retell a lie exactly the same way, but if a person is telling the truth their story will remain consistent.
I am thinking it through. I guess there is a time and a place for that sort of thing. If Bozeman said he liked ice cream, are they supposed to call the nearest Dairy Queen and Dippin Dots to his house and ask if he's been seen there? Um, no, and I know that's one extreme (since for some reason you jumped to the Teo extreme when we are talking about Bozeman), but there is a time and a place, for sure.
 

B1GTide

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I am thinking it through. I guess there is a time and a place for that sort of thing. If Bozeman said he liked ice cream, are they supposed to call the nearest Dairy Queen and Dippin Dots to his house and ask if he's been seen there? Um, no, and I know that's one extreme (since for some reason you jumped to the Teo extreme when we are talking about Bozeman), but there is a time and a place, for sure.
Te'o said his grandmother and girlfriend died. They could verify one easily, but not the other. Te'o was a trusted athlete - he was not then known to be a liar. They didn't want to appear insensitive, and they had a great story, so they just ran with it. It was a mistake, but not one that anyone even questioned at the time because it is inconceivable that a person would lie about something like that. But the media clearly abdicated its responsibility by reporting as fact something that they did not know to be factually correct.

IMO, you are defensive about the Bozeman thing because some people will only hear the question, not the answer. The fact is that people like that are only going to think the worst of your program anyway.
 

TIDE-HSV

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I never meant to suggest otherwise. I was simply responding to a question about a part of one of my posts in the thread.
I didn't read the entire thread. I think most Bama fans are a bit defensive about the GS issue because Saban has been accused wrongfully so often for abusing it...
 

bamahippie

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IMO, you are defensive about the Bozeman thing because some people will only hear the question, not the answer. The fact is that people like that are only going to think the worst of your program anyway.
I guess one of us is "defensive". :)

I guess I don't like people prodding an honest kid about a decision that he is obviously at peace about. And you still have not adequately explained how the two situations are on the same scale. A kid talking about when he is entering school, and being OK with later for rehab. And on the other hand, a manipulating liar, who was either in on the fabrication, or at the very least perpetuated the myth. Hmmm, doesn't compute. Need more input. Must disassemble. You cannot apply the same journalistic rules to every story, much less every person.
 
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jps1983

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IMO, you are defensive about the Bozeman thing because some people will only hear the question, not the answer. The fact is that people like that are only going to think the worst of your program anyway.
And that's why a lot of us get defensive so quickly. CNS gets so much hate for "oversigning" or grayshirting when other schools have much worse attrition rates (an effect of oversigning) and the media only blasts us. The AJC essentially made CNS out to be the worst person ever for Taylor's grayshirt issue, but Taylor knew about the grayshirt offer long before NSD and other schools (LSU, USC, and now Tubberville) are turning kids away without much notice, but we are still the only school in media crosshairs.

It just gets old. Not many opposing fans can see that, so I am glad that you can (my guess is b/c yall were clearing the NCAA whipping boy when the Tressel issue was out there, you know what it feels like to be over-scrutinized).
 

B1GTide

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And that's why a lot of us get defensive so quickly. CNS gets so much hate for "oversigning" or grayshirting when other schools have much worse attrition rates (an effect of oversigning) and the media only blasts us. The AJC essentially made CNS out to be the worst person ever for Taylor's grayshirt issue, but Taylor knew about the grayshirt offer long before NSD and other schools (LSU, USC, and now Tubberville) are turning kids away without much notice, but we are still the only school in media crosshairs.

It just gets old. Not many opposing fans can see that, so I am glad that you can (my guess is b/c yall were clearing the NCAA whipping boy when the Tressel issue was out there, you know what it feels like to be over-scrutinized).
Yeah, I really only read the articles that you guys link, so I don't get a taste for that. Up here, the press treats B1G schools as if they should be bastions of integrity. When any school in the B1G acts otherwise, they are crushed in the media. But they do so pretty evenly - maybe giving Northwestern a pass.

I must assume that Saban and Alabama are singled out because of his individual success and the success of your program. If I were in your shoes, I would probably be happy that you are singled out. Read all of the great press that you are getting (you get a ton of great press) and stop reading the crud. To use cliché, "haters gonna hate". They don't need a reason, but if you are going to give them one, let it be that you have beaten their backsides.
 

TIDE-HSV

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Yeah, I really only read the articles that you guys link, so I don't get a taste for that. Up here, the press treats B1G schools as if they should be bastions of integrity. When any school in the B1G acts otherwise, they are crushed in the media. But they do so pretty evenly - maybe giving Northwestern a pass.

I must assume that Saban and Alabama are singled out because of his individual success and the success of your program. If I were in your shoes, I would probably be happy that you are singled out. Read all of the great press that you are getting (you get a ton of great press) and stop reading the crud. To use cliché, "haters gonna hate". They don't need a reason, but if you are going to give them one, let it be that you have beaten their backsides.
You haven't yet been around long enough to notice, but Bama fans actually thrive off the hate and expect it. However, a false accusation, particularly one repeated ad nauseum, will still get a rise out of us - and that's a natural reaction...
 

jps1983

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I must assume that Saban and Alabama are singled out because of his individual success and the success of your program. If I were in your shoes, I would probably be happy that you are singled out. Read all of the great press that you are getting (you get a ton of great press) and stop reading the crud. To use cliché, "haters gonna hate". They don't need a reason, but if you are going to give them one, let it be that you have beaten their backsides.
I can't speak for all Bama fans, but if anything is related to Bama, I read it or watch it. We are a pretty rabid fan base. The Experts show us a lot of love on ESPN (I loved their segments with BJ this year). It's kinda like playing golf though; it's easy to forget the good shots, but that one 3 foot putt you miss just always nags at you. The negative stuff is just bothersome when it is repeated incessantly. I think we'll hear about CNS' recruiting tactics or his leaving to the NFL every single year.
 

Tidetwin

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We are a pretty rabid fan base.

But we are also an intelligent and informed one as well. I think as long as we continue on this incredible run, we should expect the criticism and just do our best to roll with it.
 

runtheoption22

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The AJC essentially made CNS out to be the worst person ever for Taylor's grayshirt issue, but Taylor knew about the grayshirt offer long before NSD (QUOTE).

And, IIRC, J. Taylor was fine with the GS offer.....until his Dad got into the middle of it, right?
Taylor was fine with it, but someone convinced him it was a slap in the face. I think his HS coach got involved.
 

bamafaninOhiO

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The AJC essentially made CNS out to be the worst person ever for Taylor's grayshirt issue, but Taylor knew about the grayshirt offer long before NSD (QUOTE).

And, IIRC, J. Taylor was fine with the GS offer.....until his Dad got into the middle of it, right?

To me, its a non-issue as long as the kid was informed well enough in advance that he can make his own decision wether to accept a greyshirt, or find another option.

Where it becomes unethical is if they're not informed until the last minute, and it limits thier opportunity to decide.
 

bamabelle1991

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I don't know about Spurrier, but Tubberville was essentially pulling schollies this year when he took over at Wisconsin. His staff essentially didn't contact some of the players (this may have been b/c of the dead period), but when the players got through to the staff, they were told that they no longer had schollies. Some coaches do that, but I don't think it happens too often considering how much turnover there is among college HC's. The coaches know they need to develop relationships with HS coaches and pulling offers on kids is not the way to win over a HS coach. It's really surprising when a new staff doesn't honor the scholly.
Tuberville is at Cincinnati, not Wisconsin, but yes, he pulled schollies of kids who committed to the former coach.
 

jps1983

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Tuberville is at Cincinnati, not Wisconsin, but yes, he pulled schollies of kids who committed to the former coach.
Thanks. I didn't remember; I thought the big opening was Wisconsin since that is much better than Tech, but Cincy is almost a lateral move. Made sense to Tubberville I guess.
 

CrimsonEyeshade

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Thanks. I didn't remember; I thought the big opening was Wisconsin since that is much better than Tech, but Cincy is almost a lateral move. Made sense to Tubberville I guess.
We never know all the details, but gray-shirting remains an uncomfortable subject for a lot of us. I don't think changing the terms of the offer two weeks before signing day is a fair thing to do to a kid who's been committed for most of the year. Even if the possibility has been raised earlier, waiting that long severely compromises a kid's ability to make an informed choice or find the best alternative. Paying tuition for a year or waiting six months to enroll is not always an option.

Eliminating scholarship limits? We'd make out fine. But it would turn "amateur" football into a free-market free-for-all in which the richest teams, like the New York Yankees, would have a clear advantage. Even the NFL won't stand for that anymore.

I trust that our school is handling each situation fairly. In this case, the gray shirt is clearly not a last-minute deal. But the whole issue leaves me queasy, and I'm glad the Bozeman family can make it work.
 

IMALOYAL1

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Saban doesn't do that. Mostly the tactic is used in cases like this - injury requiring a lengthy rehab period. It really benefits the kid because it saves a RS year, whereas if he enrolled normally, he'd have to spend his RS year rehabbing. This was exactly the situation with the boy in GA over whom Saban caught so much flak, primarily in the GA press, last year. His offer was changed to a GS when he blew his ACL. My memory is that Saban used the device in his first couple of years also with slow-developing kids/positions, such as OL. Mostly lately, it's been used with injuries. I don't think he's ever completely pulled a scholly for injury. I think before he would do that, he'd go ahead and sign the kid and put him on medical after he was on the team. I know that we've had a couple of kids who came on campus injured and never saw the field before being placed on medical. I only wish all schools would follow his policies. I guess the most appalling case I've heard of was the kid who actually reported and was on campus at LSU when he was told his scholly had disappeared. Maybe someone else's memory will be more detailed about individual kids...
Offensive line can take much more time for a teenager to fully develop. If Bozeman works hard an extra year could be the difference in all sec. This years offensive line is a good example. Even Fluker who was highly rated, took time to develop and got better each year, as have they all.

I can't remember the kids name or the exact year. I think he was a starter on Stallings 92 Championship team. Tried to get an extra year but couldn't. Was a starter on the O'line and seemed to really come on late. He wasn't drafted but could have done a lot more with another year.
 

TIDE-HSV

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Offensive line can take much more time for a teenager to fully develop. If Bozeman works hard an extra year could be the difference in all sec. This years offensive line is a good example. Even Fluker who was highly rated, took time to develop and got better each year, as have they all.

I can't remember the kids name or the exact year. I think he was a starter on Stallings 92 Championship team. Tried to get an extra year but couldn't. Was a starter on the O'line and seemed to really come on late. He wasn't drafted but could have done a lot more with another year.
If economics weren't driving the decision, Fluker could improve even more with another year. He didn't play football until late in HS and OL only his senior year. The family was moving here and there, largely as a result of Katrina and really bad economic conditions. I'm not going into detail about their family living situation, but suffice it to say that no one here would disagree with his decision to go early...
 

BAMAfan777

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Re: OL Bradley Bozeman will greyshirt

Originally Posted by TidefaninOS

Taylor was fine with it, but someone convinced him it was a slap in the face. I think his HS coach got involved.

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Bet Taylor now wishes he hadn't listened to the instigators.

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What are you talking about?........ it worked best for Bama and former RB recruit Taylor, as with all of the running back talent now for the Crimson Tide (including the three or four coming in), Taylor may have never seen the field.
 
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