Bama Reb said:

Yep, you're probably right. As for scouting, I was all about getting that next 'badge'.

And way back then, ''gay'' meant happy and carefree. It didn't mean anything close to what it means today.

To the OP: I sure am glad my child-rearing days are over. It gives me great relief knowing I don't have to explain to my kids why I won't let them go into scouting.

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And the "q" word meant strange. Anyway, I still have two in scouting: one a Star scout and the other Second Class. Their troop has grown because of all the shuttered troops in the Birmingham area.

As an Eagle Scout, I don't even care. I left and never looked back.

For better or worse, I think Scouting is one of those things that is long past its heyday. It was big in a time when we were a mostly rural society and one had to be incredibly self-sufficient and resourceful to even survive the days. It was something for kids to do that taught them. Nowadays, however, kids are on little gadgets all the time and have a speed dial to someone the moment they get in any trouble. It's sorta like the USAF needed "Tops in Blue" to go perform and do live shows on overseas bases back when: a) military pay was horrible; b) because pay was horrible there was little to do; c) the free entertainment gave something for folks to do for an evening.

We now have more leisure things than we can even fathom. Scouting is going to die and it's going to have next to nothing to do with admitting (or not admitting) gays, it's going to be because the world has changed. People used to read newspapers, too - but you can't even find one now. (When I was in Boston in April, I saw a copy of the WSJ - it was literally the first newspaper I'd seen in five years).

Change - inevitable.

And we at least had Scouts back in the early 80s who were - whatever you want to call it. Maybe they were gay, maybe they were bi, maybe they were experimenting. But we had that even then.

selmaborntidefan said:

As an Eagle Scout, I don't even care. I left and never looked back.

For better or worse, I think Scouting is one of those things that is long past its heyday. It was big in a time when we were a mostly rural society and one had to be incredibly self-sufficient and resourceful to even survive the days. It was something for kids to do that taught them. Nowadays, however, kids are on little gadgets all the time and have a speed dial to someone the moment they get in any trouble. It's sorta like the USAF needed "Tops in Blue" to go perform and do live shows on overseas bases back when: a) military pay was horrible; b) because pay was horrible there was little to do; c) the free entertainment gave something for folks to do for an evening.

We now have more leisure things than we can even fathom. Scouting is going to die and it's going to have next to nothing to do with admitting (or not admitting) gays, it's going to be because the world has changed. People used to read newspapers, too - but you can't even find one now. (When I was in Boston in April, I saw a copy of the WSJ - it was literally the first newspaper I'd seen in five years).

Change - inevitable.

And we at least had Scouts back in the early 80s who were - whatever you want to call it. Maybe they were gay, maybe they were bi, maybe they were experimenting. But we had that even then.

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Birmingham still has newspapers, except they're now printed in St. Louis MO. They must be awfully good at it too, because it's the only newspaper I've ever heard of where you can buy Sunday's newspaper on Saturday. The only thing is, nowhere in it is there any news pertaining to anything that's happened in the past week.

But I'm afraid you're right. Many things have become obsolete in today's society. The scouting organization is one of them.

Bama Reb said:

Birmingham still has newspapers, except they're now printed in St. Louis MO. They must be awfully good at it too, because it's the only newspaper I've ever heard of where you can buy Sunday's newspaper on Saturday. The only thing is, nowhere in it is there any news pertaining to anything that's happened in the past week.

But I'm afraid you're right. Many things have become obsolete in today's society. The scouting organization is one of them.

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School yearbooks is another thing that has died.


Why pay $75 for a book with people in it - 90% of whom I don't even know on the campus - when I can take pics every day in my phone? Facebook is also going to destroy class reunions in the next few years. No need to go visit someone every five years when you see every single thing they've experienced every single day online.

selmaborntidefan said:

School yearbooks is another thing that has died.


Why pay $75 for a book with people in it - 90% of whom I don't even know on the campus - when I can take pics every day in my phone? Facebook is also going to destroy class reunions in the next few years. No need to go visit someone every five years when you see every single thing they've experienced every single day online.

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I get it with respect to college yearbooks but not so much with yearbooks for high school, middle school, etc. Yearbooks seem to be as big as ever in my kids' schools.

selmaborntidefan said:

School yearbooks is another thing that has died.


Why pay $75 for a book with people in it - 90% of whom I don't even know on the campus - when I can take pics every day in my phone? Facebook is also going to destroy class reunions in the next few years. No need to go visit someone every five years when you see every single thing they've experienced every single day online.

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Another (business) forum I frequent originated in the 1970's as a printed monthly repair bulletin, usually 8-10 pages in length, and the subscription cost $96 per year. I remember there being dozens of contributors ranging from manufacturers, distributors, operators and technicians. Five years ago they did away with the printed version and started a online version, but the subscription price never changed. As a result, fewer and fewer people started contributing, and down went the membership rolls. Today, it's little more than a forum with only a few contributing members. Yet those same few people still have to pay that $96 per year to access the online pages.
With my retirement, this is my final year in that forum. I have been a moderator there since it's conversion and have helped hundreds of people from around the world fix their games. I've even managed to help a few right here on TF. When my subscription lapses in a few short months though, I'm leaving as well.

My entire industry is undergoing a major transformation, and not for the better. At one time there were tens of thousands of amusement arcades across the nation. Today there are few as most of the arcade industry has become obsolete. With the advent of tablets, smart phones, MP3/4/5's, etc., there are fewer and fewer arcades, and less and less demand for my services. I made a 40 year career in the arcade industry, but I think I picked the right time to retire.

selmaborntidefan said:

As an Eagle Scout, I don't even care. I left and never looked back.

For better or worse, I think Scouting is one of those things that is long past its heyday. It was big in a time when we were a mostly rural society and one had to be incredibly self-sufficient and resourceful to even survive the days. It was something for kids to do that taught them. Nowadays, however, kids are on little gadgets all the time and have a speed dial to someone the moment they get in any trouble. It's sorta like the USAF needed "Tops in Blue" to go perform and do live shows on overseas bases back when: a) military pay was horrible; b) because pay was horrible there was little to do; c) the free entertainment gave something for folks to do for an evening.

We now have more leisure things than we can even fathom. Scouting is going to die and it's going to have next to nothing to do with admitting (or not admitting) gays, it's going to be because the world has changed. People used to read newspapers, too - but you can't even find one now. (When I was in Boston in April, I saw a copy of the WSJ - it was literally the first newspaper I'd seen in five years).

Change - inevitable.

And we at least had Scouts back in the early 80s who were - whatever you want to call it. Maybe they were gay, maybe they were bi, maybe they were experimenting. But we had that even then.

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I can't really agree that Scouts is dieing. I was a scout, from cubs all the way through boy scouts. For me and the other guys I did it with, it was about learning how to build cool things, doing camping and adventure trips, and learning about wildlife. All with a group of friends. While I will agree that scouts probably isn't as popular today with so much tech-based entertainment out there, I don't really think that the desire to do scouting activities will die. Sure, learning how to build snares and deadfalls isn't exactly crucial knowledge anymore, but it sure is fun to do it. I think there will always be a substantial amount of boys out there who are excited to learn the things scouting has to offer.

I agree about kids and tech stuff now though. I am only just out of college, but the amount of change in what kids 10yrs younger than me spend time doing is crazy. I mean we had gameboys, but nobody had them all the time. A lot of people seem glued to their phones now, kids included. I took my brother, who is much younger than me (middle school) and some of his friends to see a movie this past weekend, and on the way there they each played some kind of phone game in the back seat. I can't stand it.

I remember talking about the "Lost Generation" of Hemingway, etc in school, and I wonder if we don't have our own lost generation today. I can't say exactly what it is, but it seems that Americans, especially men, are searching for something to define them. You talk about a growing disinterest in scout-type hobbies, yet many popular TV shows revolve around blue collar and/or outdoorsy-type jobs. We've got Dirty Jobs, some show about loggers, and gold-searching divers. Then there are the survival shows like Man vs Wild, Survivorman, the buddy survival show, the couple survival show, the naked survival show, etc. And people watch these and say "man I wish I could build a fire naked with one stick". So maybe we will see renewed interest in the outdoors.

I don't support government-planning climate change prevention schemes or think humans are a virus on the planet. But I do support conservation efforts, and maybe Scouts can channel this new environmental concern in the right direction? What will kill scouting is an effort to make it more accessible by eliminating any teaching of principles because someone somewhere claims to be offended by structure and labels. I am not talking about gay scouts but, say, modifying the scout motto or creed, or directing civic engagement only towards progressive policy ideas, such as safe firearm handling=no firearm handling, or camping is too dangerous, or hunting is wrong, or lets combine boy scouts and girl scouts, etc. When scouts ceases to be scouts, is when I think we will see scouting die, if that makes any sense.

I was a life long newspaper junkie. I used read two or three a day sometimes. I would read both Birmingham papers and USA Today. As my life got busier, I was down to just one a day, but that was more than most people. I kept taking the paper long after it had achieved dinosaur status and its quality had declined.

Then a few years ago the Birmingham News switched to a three day a week cycle. They print on Sunday, Wednesday and Friday. They do have a Saturday edition, but it is more of a preview of Sunday. The college football preview is now on Friday and high school football gets pushed to the back burner.

Even then, I kept reading> The coverage of college sports dropped to a point where it was almost unreadable. I always enjoyed following smaller state schools, but they pretty much ignored them by then.

So after a year of the thrice weekly paper, I decided to let it drop. Reading it became a chore. The Sunday paper had become almost as thin as the Tuesday paper once was. A few months after i cancelled, they called me trying to get me to come back. They offered me a deeply discounted subscription but I still said "No".

I think they don't care what they get in subscription revenues, they just want numbers to be able to charge more for advertising.

Boy Scouts End Nationwide Ban on Gay Leaders

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/28/u...c=edit_na_20150727&nlid=57903598&ref=cta&_r=0

Discrimination based on sexual orientation will also be barred in all Boy Scout offices and for all paid jobs — a step that could head off looming lawsuits in New York, Colorado and other states that prohibit such discrimination in employment.

To avoid the wholesale defection of conservative religious groups, the Boy Scouts said church-based local units would remain free to exclude gay adults from voluntary leadership roles like scoutmasters and Cub Scout den and pack leaders.

seebell said:

Boy Scouts End Nationwide Ban on Gay Leaders

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/28/u...c=edit_na_20150727&nlid=57903598&ref=cta&_r=0

Discrimination based on sexual orientation will also be barred in all Boy Scout offices and for all paid jobs — a step that could head off looming lawsuits in New York, Colorado and other states that prohibit such discrimination in employment.

To avoid the wholesale defection of conservative religious groups, the Boy Scouts said church-based local units would remain free to exclude gay adults from voluntary leadership roles like scoutmasters and Cub Scout den and pack leaders.

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There's been a pretty sizable defection of conservative religious groups already.

To avoid the wholesale defection of conservative religious groups, the Boy Scouts said church-based local units would remain free to exclude gay adults from voluntary leadership roles like scoutmasters and Cub Scout den and pack leaders.

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Tide1986 said:

There's been a pretty sizable defection of conservative religious groups already.

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The barn door is just now being closed.

Bama Reb said:

The barn door is just now being closed.

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So they are banning Auburn grads now?

Tide1986 said:

There's been a pretty sizable defection of conservative religious groups already.

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There is already a local troop with http://www.traillifeusa.com/ and several more being considered.

dvldog said:

Principles, in general, seem to be coming less and less a fabric of our society.

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"...in this post-modernist view, where absolutes are seen as relics and laughed out of the room."

- Foster the People

A good description of the direction in which our society is headed, IMO.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/year-transgender-boy-asked-leave-cub-scout-pack-44419095

The family of an 8-year-old New Jersey boy [sic]says he [sic] was kicked out of Cub Scouts because he [sic] is transgender, a move that could open a new front in the debate over discrimination in Scouting.

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