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  1. #157

    Re: SI article implies that Bama football players used illegal substances (S.W.A.T.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by davefrat View Post
    so you're saying that the "male enhancement" spray supplements i've been buying at my local asian market may not work?
    Why would you buy "male enhancement" from the Asian store!!??

    Now the one I buy off of Martin Luther King Drive is the bomb diggity and I highly recommend it!

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  3. #158
    BamaNation All-American bamabelle1991's Avatar
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    Re: SI article implies that Bama football players used illegal substances (S.W.A.T.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by TIDE-HSV View Post
    It could be under appeal. Also, these local crooks are just runners. They have no idea what's in the bottles. If it involved another school, it would be fascinating for a lawyer. Say I offer you a useless substance, on a handshake - nothing in writing, in exchange for your promise to endorse it at some future time. The product, as I said, does nothing, and, I'm sure that our staff made sure the players (all of them) got educated as to the uselessness of the products. So the kids broke their verbal promise to endorse a useless product(s). Frankly, I just hope they admitted the verbal promise to the NCAA and our investigators. That, to me, would seem to be the only point to worry about - if the players fibbed to NCAA investigators about the promise. I have no idea if the NCAA would come back and punish that or not...
    How can they (snake oil salesmen) prove there was a verbal promise? Video or audio tape? If that doesn't exist, then there is no proof, right?

  4. #159

    Re: SI article implies that Bama football players used illegal substances (S.W.A.T.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by bamabelle1991 View Post
    How can they (snake oil salesmen) prove there was a verbal promise? Video or audio tape? If that doesn't exist, then there is no proof, right?
    Here is what this guy does:

    He gets in with a few guys, sells his product that they may or may not use, and then uses what little contact he has had with them to make up huge frivolous stories about how they have used his product, etc.

    Just like the Ray Lewis ordeal. He has used the Super Bowl to get free promotion for his product! All these businesses are paying millions of dollars to get 30 second commercials, but this dude is getting his product pushed during the interviews with the most famous player (Ray Lewis) for free!!!!!!!!!

    He knows what he is doing...

    This is no coincidence that all this is coming out now! He is a snake in the grass and uses other people's hard work and fame to benefit himself. And unfortunately, with the climate of the media today, we bite hook, line, and sinker!

  5. #160
    Senior Administrator TIDE-HSV's Avatar
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    Re: SI article implies that Bama football players used illegal substances (S.W.A.T.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by davefrat View Post
    so you're saying that the "male enhancement" spray supplements i've been buying at my local asian market may not work?
    Correct! The interesting thing is that NIH did a rat study, where they fed the control group normal rat chow and fed the test group rat chow to which they had added ground up deer velvet, which is always in the traditional Asian "enhancement" products. The result was benefits in physical and mental development. However, there were many other ingredients in the feed, in addition to IGF-1, making it hard to tell what fraction helped. Also, as I've said above, and has been being made clear by the medical authorities, these GFs are big molecules - peptides with multiple strings of amino acids - so absorption through the skin or mucous membrane is just a pipe dream. If you take in in tablet form, your stomach just digests it and it is eliminated, hence the need for injection. Here is the URL for the NIH project. It's thick reading -

    LINK
    Last edited by TIDE-HSV; January 31st, 2013 at 09:15 AM. Reason: typos
    "The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity. - Ellen Parr"

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  6. #161
    Senior Administrator TIDE-HSV's Avatar
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    Re: SI article implies that Bama football players used illegal substances (S.W.A.T.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by bamabelle1991 View Post
    How can they (snake oil salesmen) prove there was a verbal promise? Video or audio tape? If that doesn't exist, then there is no proof, right?
    I'm not sure. I think he's made some oblique comments about having recorded some meetings. I don't know if it's with our guys or not. However, the problem is that the whole transaction would be void as against public policy. There's a scientific consensus of uselessness, which these guys disregard, so the entire transaction is fraudulent from the word "go," and I don't know why it's not, on the criminal side, theft by deception. I guess these guys would have to use the excuse out of the Seinfeld Show - "If you believe it, it's not a lie." I'm hoping the guys were straight with the investigators. If they were, I think the NCAA would just regard them as victims. No harm, no foul...
    "The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity. - Ellen Parr"

    'If today were the last day of my life, would I want to do what I am about to do today?' - Steve Jobs

    I would rather live my life as if there is a god and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find out there is. Albert Camus

  7. #162

    Re: SI article implies that Bama football players used illegal substances (S.W.A.T.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by TIDE-HSV View Post
    It could be under appeal. Also, these local crooks are just runners. They have no idea what's in the bottles. If it involved another school, it would be fascinating for a lawyer. Say I offer you a useless substance, on a handshake - nothing in writing, in exchange for your promise to endorse it at some future time. The product, as I said, does nothing, and, I'm sure that our staff made sure the players (all of them) got educated as to the uselessness of the products. So the kids broke their verbal promise to endorse a useless product(s). Frankly, I just hope they admitted the verbal promise to the NCAA and our investigators. That, to me, would seem to be the only point to worry about - if the players fibbed to NCAA investigators about the promise. I have no idea if the NCAA would come back and punish that or not...
    I understand your points and thanks for the clarification about an appeal possibly slowing down that judgement.

    In general terms, if someone is offering me a product we both know is worthless, I'm not sure I'm obliged to be honest about what I would do in return for it. I think I could even make a decent argument that if someone offers me a useless ineffective product, a broken promise would be the best they could expect in return.

    You make a good point about whether the players were honest about any promises in the NCAA investigation. I'd like to think with Saban at the helm, the NCAA would treat us fairly, but I have a long memory about how the NCAA conducts itself.

  8. #163
    BamaNation All-American TexasTideFan's Avatar
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    Re: SI article implies that Bama football players used illegal substances (S.W.A.T.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chukker Veteran View Post
    What part of "these guys are bad news selling junk and they can get you in trouble" is not getting through to our players? It seems so easy to understand.
    Good question but no easy answer. Our S&C staff is pretty clear on what the guys can and can't take. However, our players aren't robots that just go from their rooms, to class, to the football complex, and back to their rooms. They are prime targets in public for these guys and what player doesn't want an edge? Heck, kids are still getting caught for juice and gear has been banned for a while. Happens all the time.

  9. #164
    BamaNation All-American bamabelle1991's Avatar
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    Re: SI article implies that Bama football players used illegal substances (S.W.A.T.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rasputin View Post
    Here is what this guy does:

    He gets in with a few guys, sells his product that they may or may not use, and then uses what little contact he has had with them to make up huge frivolous stories about how they have used his product, etc.

    Just like the Ray Lewis ordeal. He has used the Super Bowl to get free promotion for his product! All these businesses are paying millions of dollars to get 30 second commercials, but this dude is getting his product pushed during the interviews with the most famous player (Ray Lewis) for free!!!!!!!!!

    He knows what he is doing...

    This is no coincidence that all this is coming out now! He is a snake in the grass and uses other people's hard work and fame to benefit himself. And unfortunately, with the climate of the media today, we bite hook, line, and sinker!
    Oh I could tell he was a REAL piece of work in that video with Alex Watkins. Looks like he preyed on the kids with bad injuries--give them any kind of hope for a super speedy recovery. He was on Zac Etheridge from Auburn like a vulture on a carcass. People like that make me sick.

    I hope Ray Lewis--with his super bowl platform--is able to make this guy look like the weasel he is. I think Ed Reed and/or Ray Rice has already taked pretty negatively about the SWATS guys. And, I see one of them wants to "get down to Nola to make this right." Yeah--that is code for FREE trip to the Super Bowl.

    The question still looms, though--does he have proof of the verbal agreement? NVRMND! Just saw Earle's answer!!

  10. #165
    Senior Administrator TIDE-HSV's Avatar
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    Re: SI article implies that Bama football players used illegal substances (S.W.A.T.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chukker Veteran View Post
    I understand your points and thanks for the clarification about an appeal possibly slowing down that judgement.

    In general terms, if someone is offering me a product we both know is worthless, I'm not sure I'm obliged to be honest about what I would do in return for it. I think I could even make a decent argument that if someone offers me a useless ineffective product, a broken promise would be the best they could expect in return.

    You make a good point about whether the players were honest about any promises in the NCAA investigation. I'd like to think with Saban at the helm, the NCAA would treat us fairly, but I have a long memory about how the NCAA conducts itself.
    I actually meant to make one point and forgot. I'm not clear on whom the judgment is against. These guys in Birmingham are just runners - street-level distributors. The stuff is prepackaged by S.W.A.T for them. I believe the judgment was against the manufacturer for having a testosterone analog in the spray. That most affirmatively can be absorbed through the skin or mucous. In fact, when it's prescribed, a patch or gel is the most common method of delivery. Pretty much it's just body builders and other abusers who are injecting, in order to get more. But, back to the initial point, the judgment probably didn't hurt these runners, unless it eventually deprives them of product. Then, the big boys would just start up again under another name...

    Edit: I've read elsewhere that the judgment was against Ross and these guys, and, as I predicted, they just changed names and kept on going...
    Last edited by TIDE-HSV; January 31st, 2013 at 10:07 AM.
    "The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity. - Ellen Parr"

    'If today were the last day of my life, would I want to do what I am about to do today?' - Steve Jobs

    I would rather live my life as if there is a god and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find out there is. Albert Camus

  11. #166

    Re: SI article implies that Bama football players used illegal substances (S.W.A.T.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by bamahippie View Post
    I figured it out! Mitch Ross is Emmett Otter's dad! He's really not dead! Someone tell Emmett and his mom! (someone will get that)...
    No one wants to oil a snake...

  12. #167

    Re: SI article implies that Bama football players used illegal substances (S.W.A.T.S.

    According to this article Christopher Key was an Alabama graduate. Why would he try to hurt the university? I don't understand him doing this.
    http://alabama.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1466558

  13. #168
    Senior Administrator TIDE-HSV's Avatar
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    Re: SI article implies that Bama football players used illegal substances (S.W.A.T.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by 10Bama54 View Post
    According to this article Christopher Key was an Alabama graduate. Why would he try to hurt the university? I don't understand him doing this.
    http://alabama.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1466558
    We graduate our share of sleazeballs also...
    "The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity. - Ellen Parr"

    'If today were the last day of my life, would I want to do what I am about to do today?' - Steve Jobs

    I would rather live my life as if there is a god and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find out there is. Albert Camus

  14. #169
    BamaNation All-American bamabelle1991's Avatar
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    Re: SI article implies that Bama football players used illegal substances (S.W.A.T.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by 10Bama54 View Post
    According to this article Christopher Key was an Alabama graduate. Why would he try to hurt the university? I don't understand him doing this.
    http://alabama.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1466558
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