Link: SI article implies that Bama football players used illegal substances (S.W.A.T.S.)

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TIDE-HSV

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How can they (snake oil salesmen) prove there was a verbal promise? Video or audio tape? If that doesn't exist, then there is no proof, right?
I'm not sure. I think he's made some oblique comments about having recorded some meetings. I don't know if it's with our guys or not. However, the problem is that the whole transaction would be void as against public policy. There's a scientific consensus of uselessness, which these guys disregard, so the entire transaction is fraudulent from the word "go," and I don't know why it's not, on the criminal side, theft by deception. I guess these guys would have to use the excuse out of the Seinfeld Show - "If you believe it, it's not a lie." I'm hoping the guys were straight with the investigators. If they were, I think the NCAA would just regard them as victims. No harm, no foul...
 

Chukker Veteran

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It could be under appeal. Also, these local crooks are just runners. They have no idea what's in the bottles. If it involved another school, it would be fascinating for a lawyer. Say I offer you a useless substance, on a handshake - nothing in writing, in exchange for your promise to endorse it at some future time. The product, as I said, does nothing, and, I'm sure that our staff made sure the players (all of them) got educated as to the uselessness of the products. So the kids broke their verbal promise to endorse a useless product(s). Frankly, I just hope they admitted the verbal promise to the NCAA and our investigators. That, to me, would seem to be the only point to worry about - if the players fibbed to NCAA investigators about the promise. I have no idea if the NCAA would come back and punish that or not...
I understand your points and thanks for the clarification about an appeal possibly slowing down that judgement.

In general terms, if someone is offering me a product we both know is worthless, I'm not sure I'm obliged to be honest about what I would do in return for it. I think I could even make a decent argument that if someone offers me a useless ineffective product, a broken promise would be the best they could expect in return.

You make a good point about whether the players were honest about any promises in the NCAA investigation. I'd like to think with Saban at the helm, the NCAA would treat us fairly, but I have a long memory about how the NCAA conducts itself.
 

TexasTideFan

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What part of "these guys are bad news selling junk and they can get you in trouble" is not getting through to our players? It seems so easy to understand.
Good question but no easy answer. Our S&C staff is pretty clear on what the guys can and can't take. However, our players aren't robots that just go from their rooms, to class, to the football complex, and back to their rooms. They are prime targets in public for these guys and what player doesn't want an edge? Heck, kids are still getting caught for juice and gear has been banned for a while. Happens all the time.
 

bamabelle1991

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Here is what this guy does:

He gets in with a few guys, sells his product that they may or may not use, and then uses what little contact he has had with them to make up huge frivolous stories about how they have used his product, etc.

Just like the Ray Lewis ordeal. He has used the Super Bowl to get free promotion for his product! All these businesses are paying millions of dollars to get 30 second commercials, but this dude is getting his product pushed during the interviews with the most famous player (Ray Lewis) for free!!!!!!!!!

He knows what he is doing...

This is no coincidence that all this is coming out now! He is a snake in the grass and uses other people's hard work and fame to benefit himself. And unfortunately, with the climate of the media today, we bite hook, line, and sinker!:rolleyes:
Oh I could tell he was a REAL piece of work in that video with Alex Watkins. Looks like he preyed on the kids with bad injuries--give them any kind of hope for a super speedy recovery. He was on Zac Etheridge from Auburn like a vulture on a carcass. People like that make me sick.

I hope Ray Lewis--with his super bowl platform--is able to make this guy look like the weasel he is. I think Ed Reed and/or Ray Rice has already taked pretty negatively about the SWATS guys. And, I see one of them wants to "get down to Nola to make this right." Yeah--that is code for FREE trip to the Super Bowl.

The question still looms, though--does he have proof of the verbal agreement? NVRMND! Just saw Earle's answer!!
 

TIDE-HSV

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I understand your points and thanks for the clarification about an appeal possibly slowing down that judgement.

In general terms, if someone is offering me a product we both know is worthless, I'm not sure I'm obliged to be honest about what I would do in return for it. I think I could even make a decent argument that if someone offers me a useless ineffective product, a broken promise would be the best they could expect in return.

You make a good point about whether the players were honest about any promises in the NCAA investigation. I'd like to think with Saban at the helm, the NCAA would treat us fairly, but I have a long memory about how the NCAA conducts itself.
I actually meant to make one point and forgot. I'm not clear on whom the judgment is against. These guys in Birmingham are just runners - street-level distributors. The stuff is prepackaged by S.W.A.T for them. I believe the judgment was against the manufacturer for having a testosterone analog in the spray. That most affirmatively can be absorbed through the skin or mucous. In fact, when it's prescribed, a patch or gel is the most common method of delivery. Pretty much it's just body builders and other abusers who are injecting, in order to get more. But, back to the initial point, the judgment probably didn't hurt these runners, unless it eventually deprives them of product. Then, the big boys would just start up again under another name...

Edit: I've read elsewhere that the judgment was against Ross and these guys, and, as I predicted, they just changed names and kept on going...
 
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davefrat

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It could be under appeal. Also, these local crooks are just runners. They have no idea what's in the bottles. If it involved another school, it would be fascinating for a lawyer. Say I offer you a useless substance, on a handshake - nothing in writing, in exchange for your promise to endorse it at some future time. The product, as I said, does nothing, and, I'm sure that our staff made sure the players (all of them) got educated as to the uselessness of the products. So the kids broke their verbal promise to endorse a useless product(s). Frankly, I just hope they admitted the verbal promise to the NCAA and our investigators. That, to me, would seem to be the only point to worry about - if the players fibbed to NCAA investigators about the promise. I have no idea if the NCAA would come back and punish that or not...
is the concern that they received something of value or that they entered into a commercial contract that would violate their amateur status. i wonder if the statute of frauds would have any bearing. i would think this might fall under the "contract not to be performed within a year" requirement that such a contract be made in writing.
 

TIDE-HSV

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is the concern that they received something of value or that they entered into a commercial contract that would violate their amateur status. i wonder if the statute of frauds would have any bearing. i would think this might fall under the "contract not to be performed within a year" requirement that such a contract be made in writing.
That's one ground which passed through my mind also. There are a bevy of grounds - fraud, public policy, no consideration because the product was worthless. TBF, I wasn't concerned with legal enforceability, there are so many grounds it wouldn't be. My only concern was if our guys told the NCAA they didn't promise to endorse and this creep has some sort of video proving they did. I just don't know how the NCAA would regard that and if it would be worth their reopening the investigation. They may not even care, or, OTOH, they may know our guys did promise endorsement (if they did) and not care, since, as I said above, no real harm was done...
 

rizolltizide

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If I was this dude, I'd contact Danny Sheridan and agree to be identified as the bagman. Then I'd say "Aubren gave me $18, I sprayed some deer antler juice on it, it grew to $180,000, and I gave it to Cam's daddy. Now who'd like some?"
 

Rasputin

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Exactly!

Why does a dog bark?

Why does a fly fly?

Why does a pig oink?

Why does a car run on high octane petroleum gasoline?

Why does a sweater keep you warm during the winter and hot during the summer?

Why does high heels hurt your feet on concrete?

Why does the dollar store sell things for 6 dollars?

Why does Ichiro run so fast?

Why does Chinese food have to be served on a buffet?

Why does Pop Tarts taste so sweet?

MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

MrRourke

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He was and he sounded like a compulsive liar and fraud before even considering the chips.
Also, did Ross not have some NFL or such guys come on air and "endorse" his stuff??

To get to my concern - is there any chance if the players tool this stuff for free they could be declared ineligible and could the National Titles be in danger of NCAA forced vacation?
 

Rasputin

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Yall are definitely missing the big picture here:

Wouldn't our guys endorsing S.W.A.T.S. chips be in direct violation with the contract we have with Golden Flake!!??

 

westide

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The Wall Street Journal reports that Notre Dame players have for years been involved in performance enhancing rituals. Ever since 1920, the Notre Dame football teams have attended a Mass before each game. Each player also receives "a priest-blessed medal devoted to a Catholic saint and is given the opportunity to kiss a shrine containing two slivers Notre Dame believes came from Jesus' cross." All of this for free, which should be an NCAA violation. There is video to back this up. Unfortunately, all of this cannot overcome deer antler spray or a heart-broke linebacker who has found out his girlfriend is really a guy.
 
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