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  1. #27
    Thread Starter

    Re: The virtues of greyshirting

    Quote Originally Posted by tide96 View Post
    The point is early enrollees get may of the benefits that you discussed without sitting out an extra year getting older. That window has passed for this year class but Alabama already has 7-8 on campus that took advantage of the opportunity. Any I didn't say grey-shirting took away a redshirt.

    Most kind want to get to the NFL as soon as possible. Most kids are not ready to get there as soon as they think, but considering it is almost always the 2-3 star guy getting grey shirted and it seemingly often coming up late in a recruiting process, you can't tell me it isn't a sign of disrespect.
    I think we all knew that, but did any of the EEs get greyshirt offers? I know one player seemed to lose his offer entirely when it became clear he couldn't be an EE. This isn't an option for any player out there right now, that hasn't signed an LOI as far as I'm aware. Is that the best scenario? Sure, but it's not available to most players, and it's not applicable to Poggi or Bozeman. We're not talking about players that have that option.

    To reiterate, greyshirting has 0 impact on leaving for the NFL early. If you're ready to go after three years, you're ready to go after three years. Greyshirt, and redshirt, neither have any impact on that at all. Finally, yes I can. I do not think Saban disrespects Poggi's ability. Furthermore, it's not even clear if Vonn Bell has any sort of an offer. A 5 star player, who has indicated he wanted to play at Alabama, but it appears they lack the room.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAccountant View Post
    I can't think of one instance when a real blue-chipper took a greyshirt over a "lesser" but still high talent player (barring injury or academics).
    John Parker Wilson was a Parade All American. He wasn't a elite prospect, but I haven't seen anything to indicate he was unwanted, or unimportant to the team. However, Poggi is a high four star, top 100 kid, I absolutely do not believe the notion that he as a greyshirt is disrespected, or that he's not a blue-chipper. He may or may not take the offer, but there are lower rated players that could have been "bumped" to give him a full offer, so this flies in the face of that notion.

    I know greyshirting could be abused, somewhat. It's a willing practice, but it could catch a player off guard or the like. It's not a universal sign of disrespect, that's hogwash, it can help players, that's provable, and there are players better off for having been a greyshirt. It's funny how some people can essentially bash Saban and his practices, and some think I have a problem for seeing the logic and good in what Saban does.
    Last edited by KrAzY3; February 5th, 2013 at 03:00 PM.
    "Everybody that chooses to go to the game should stay there and support the team for the game." - Nick Saban
    "This is how it should be every game, every home game... the fans were just amazing". - Kevin Norwood on 2013 LSU game
    "Four, five-star recruits are in Tuscaloosa, and then they see a stadium start emptying out at halftime"

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  3. #28

    Re: The virtues of greyshirting

    As a person who knows little about this sort of thing, I have a few questions: Is every offer unconditional? I mean, they can't be, right? If they were, what would a school do if 40 kids faxed in letters on NSD because they really believed that there was room in the class for them? I only ask because I would like to believe that kids that are asked to grayshirt have conditional offers - that they know that this is a possibility from the outset.

    If kids are being told that they have a scholarship guaranteed and then that scholarship is pulled at the last minute (say, within the last few weeks) even though the kid had upheld his end of the deal (kept up his grades, stayed solidly committed, stayed in shape, stayed out of trouble, etc), that would be wrong.

  4. #29
    BamaNation All-SEC Padreruf's Avatar
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    Re: The virtues of greyshirting

    Greyshirts are offered to players who are either coming in at a "stacked" position or at one which usually takes some time to develop -- OL or QB -- or who may have had an injury and need to rehab before they can compete. Like everything else in life, it can be perceived as a negative or one can use it as a challenge. Quite frankly, it is also used for borderline athletes when there are late commitments from better athletes. In that case, the greyshirt needs to honestly ask themselves if they are not stretching a bit out of their reach and if that school is where they really need/want to be. If so, then go for it. If not, then make another decision.

    While it may hurt their ego -- as with the DL from Davidson or the RB from Georgia -- in reality it is probably an honest evaluation from the Coaching Staff and a way for the Staff to have a full complement of players on scholarship at any given time.

    Now -- has anyone done a study of greyshirts under Shula/Saban to see who has contributed and who has not? The only one I know of contributing is John Parker Wilson -- and he was at a position where developmental time was crucial. If you have to play a freshman QB in the SEC you are usually in for a long, long year.
    "The greatest evil in the world is not 'not knowing;' it is not knowing that you do not know." Alfred North Whitehead

  5. #30
    BamaNation First Team TheAccountant's Avatar
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    Re: The virtues of greyshirting

    Quote Originally Posted by KrAzY3 View Post

    John Parker Wilson was a Parade All American. He wasn't a elite prospect, but I haven't seen anything to indicate he was unwanted, or unimportant to the team. However, Poggi is a high four star, top 100 kid, I absolutely do not believe the notion that he as a greyshirt is disrespected, or that he's not a blue-chipper. He may or may not take the offer, but there are lower rated players that could have been "bumped" to give him a full offer, so this flies in the face of that notion.
    FYI, JPW took a greyshirt because he didn't decide he was going to play football (forego pro baseball) until late Spring or early Summer of '04. His example is makes sense but is also very different than what is being discussed here.

    Look, I know you'd argue to you're blue in the face with a brick wall if you thought that brick wall disagreed with you, but I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your original post. However, as someone already mentioned, there's always a different side to the greyshirt story, and that is what a few of us are talking about.

    I don't think anyone (I certainly don't) has any issue with Poggi or any other kid taking a greyshirt if that's what he wants to do. I'm also not "bashing Saban or his practices" because I believe he does it the right way.
    Last edited by TheAccountant; February 5th, 2013 at 03:23 PM.

  6. #31
    Thread Starter

    Re: The virtues of greyshirting

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAccountant View Post
    I know you'd argue to your blue in the face with a brick wall if you thought that brick wall disagreed with you
    I try not to argue with my blue in the face when I can possibly avoid it.

    I'm not saying everyone, or anyone is deliberately bashing Saban here. But talking along the lines of a greyshirt being unwanted, a low priority, etc... is disparaging the practice. I am talking first and foremost about greyshirting at Alabama, under Nick Saban. This is after all an Alabama forum, that is read by recruits and their family.

    I just think we're way too quick to pile on with everyone else on issues like oversigning and greyshirting, and you're right in that I will defend both practices until my hands (not necessary my face since it's not doing much) change color if that's what needs be.

    We know the so called "downsides". Every recruit knows it because that's all the negative recruiters are whispering in his ear. But, logically, it can give the player an advantage and that's all there is to it. Was Taylor better off redshirting at Kentucky than saving that year of eligibility at Alabama? He could still have transferred and had the same amount of eligibility as he does now. That's the type of stuff that irritates me, that people act like he was wronged by Alabama, when all that actually happened was he burned up a year of eligibility to not play.
    Last edited by KrAzY3; February 5th, 2013 at 03:33 PM.
    "Everybody that chooses to go to the game should stay there and support the team for the game." - Nick Saban
    "This is how it should be every game, every home game... the fans were just amazing". - Kevin Norwood on 2013 LSU game
    "Four, five-star recruits are in Tuscaloosa, and then they see a stadium start emptying out at halftime"

  7. #32

    Re: The virtues of greyshirting

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAccountant View Post
    This sounds good in theory but is not reality. Of course recruits are ranked and there are recruits deemed "lesser" than others. I can't think of one instance when a real blue-chipper took a greyshirt over a "lesser" but still high talent player (barring injury or academics).
    Of course not because the blue-chipper is more physically ready to compete in year one, and also in all likelihood may leave after three years. But, it has more to do with being physically ready to compete than it does, "Oh well, we don't really care if he reports to Fall camp. He's not as good as the others." I mean, if a coaching staff really thought that, why would they want to sign him up at all?
    The coaching staff generally has the mindset, "He will likely benefit the most by having an extra year to add weight or heal. Then he will have a much better chance at succeeding."

  8. #33

    Re: The virtues of greyshirting

    Quote Originally Posted by Padreruf View Post
    Now -- has anyone done a study of greyshirts under Shula/Saban to see who has contributed and who has not? The only one I know of contributing is John Parker Wilson -- and he was at a position where developmental time was crucial. If you have to play a freshman QB in the SEC you are usually in for a long, long year.
    Drew Davis. Had he not grayshirted, he probably would not have really ever played. He ended up and had a good final season on a very good team.
    Wasn't William Vlachos grayshirted too?

    Edit: No, Vlachos ended up not grayshirting.
    Last edited by GreatDanish; February 5th, 2013 at 04:04 PM.

  9. #34
    BamaNation All-SEC Padreruf's Avatar
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    Re: The virtues of greyshirting

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatDanish View Post
    Drew Davis. Had he not grayshirted, he probably would not have really ever played. He ended up and had a good final season on a very good team.
    Wasn't William Vlachos grayshirted too?

    Edit: No, Vlachos ended up not grayshirting.
    Thanks...I had forgotten about him. OL's are the last (usually) to fill out and mature.
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  10. #35
    Senior Administrator TIDE-HSV's Avatar
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    Re: The virtues of greyshirting

    Quote Originally Posted by B1GTide View Post
    As a person who knows little about this sort of thing, I have a few questions: Is every offer unconditional? I mean, they can't be, right? If they were, what would a school do if 40 kids faxed in letters on NSD because they really believed that there was room in the class for them? I only ask because I would like to believe that kids that are asked to grayshirt have conditional offers - that they know that this is a possibility from the outset.

    If kids are being told that they have a scholarship guaranteed and then that scholarship is pulled at the last minute (say, within the last few weeks) even though the kid had upheld his end of the deal (kept up his grades, stayed solidly committed, stayed in shape, stayed out of trouble, etc), that would be wrong.
    Saban is known for being straight up with prospects. Even the ones who sign elsewhere agree on that...
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