College football playoff selection process already screwed up...

bamafaninOhiO

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May 11, 2010
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I've never felt that it necessarily had to be a disaster - just that that was the probability. The very reason that it was conceived has bias built into it from the outset. "Let's come up with a system which will crack the SEC hegemony" is hardly an auspicious start, particularly viewed from the standpoint of the SEC. BTW, have you considered using the smileys when attempting humor? Your post which irritated so many would have come across totally differently, if it had had a smiley at the end...

...Smileys are underused, IMO...:)

B1GTide has been a pretty good poster and I've enjoyed reading his viewpoints for the most part...but, your right, smileys can change the tone of a post very simply.
 

bamafaninOhiO

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May 11, 2010
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This whole "injury rule" smells like a negotiating point, sort of like Delaney lobbying for the Rose Bowl during the initial playoff debates. I'm also curious that they didn't mention quality wins and quality losses, or whether or not the individual votes will be made public. I'd be VERY nervous if this went from an open debate to just another "smoke-filled room".

Big issue to me will be,' free and full disclosure'.
....if you have a vote, be ready to let people know you're rationale, or its no better than a computer churning out a ranking based on algorythyms.

But of course, its not truly about a computer program ranking the top teams, but about being able to bring in personal agendas and biases instead of using polls and computer rankings that tend to lessen those factors.
 

capnfrog

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Aug 17, 2002
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Don't know what to say to such a hateful post. I am just happy that there aren't many more like you on this board. Most have welcomed me.
I asked "do you see the humor in my post :)". I put a smiley face on the end to show I was trying to be humorous. I don't think you were trying to be funny but no big deal. I'm still elated over the #1 recruiting ranking for Bama. Nothings' going to ruin it for me. Roll Tide.
 

selmaborntidefan

TideFans Legend
Mar 31, 2000
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For the record, I am a former supporter of a 8 or 16-team playoff who favors the four-team concept as a means of preventing injustice without diluting the regular season. I would be just fine with keeping the BCS and taking the Top Four.

I'm not saying this in this post to pick on glasscutter, but he has formulated some of the same arguments stated elsewhere on this thread, so I chose this one for response.


As far as I'm concerned, people who wanted a playoff system have no right to complain about how the teams are selected.
This is incorrect. I can want a four-team playoff using the BCS and be emminently justified in rejecting this "blue ribbon panel" Brando-esque garbage.

I have always been pro BCS because it had an objective component (the computers).
These would be the same computers that:
a) gave us an Oklahoma team in the national championship right after it got smoked by 28 points in a conference championship game
b) gave us Nebraska in the national championship game right after they got drilled, 62-36, by Colorado.
c) one of which still had Notre Dame number one AFTER the BCS title game this year
d) two of which rated Okie State at the same level the day after they lost to Iowa State in 2011.

Any statistician will tell you the larger the population size, the more accurate the numbers.
Ok - keep this in mind because it will be very important in about ten seconds.

That's why the polls
Consisting of 60 coaches or SIDs - ALL OF WHOM HAVE THEIR OWN AGENDAS (nobody has yet mentioned this as of the time I'm typing)......


and computers is a better predictor than 14 biased people in a room.
Ok. So SIXTY biased people voting on games they didn't even watch is somehow better than 14.

And folks - let's NOT endow those coaches and SIDs as the only unbiased people on the planet. How many of you think Pinkel put us above Okie State because Mizzou was coming to the SEC? Everybody? Good, because you're all smart, intelligent fans.

Personal agendas will be pushed on others.
Michigan vs Va Tech in the Sugar Bowl. Your move.

People had to have an idea how the selection committee would be put together.
We are in agreement here - and I'd guess it's probably unanimous on TF - that a selection committee is a pure disaster in its most evil form.

Each conference will have their own interest involved.
Just like...right now.

The selection committee can work if you have 64 slots to fill.
That Dallas Zoo gorilla from the 1980s who used to pick the football games could do as well as the 64/65/96-team selection committee.

You really can't complain about being the best if your team is questionably in the top 64 teams.
I may frame that quote because it is a classic.

If you are only placing 4 teams, there is a much greater chance of leaving out the best team.
Yes and no. It depends as noted on HOW it is done.

For example, last year Notre Dame was considered the #1 team
They played a respectable schedule and were unbeaten. They should have been considered number one at the time.

and would give Bama fits.
Subjectivity noted.

In honest truth, there were probably 10-15 teams who would have beat Notre Dame that day.
Maybe, maybe not.

But how would the experts have known that.
Well, according to the article linked by krazy3, their win over USC was tainted because Barkley didn't play, so they would "really" have one loss. Yes, I'm being facetious.

Should Notre Dame be in the final four?
Last year? Absolutely. The fact they didn't look like a top four team in January has no bearing on the fact they were deserving in November.

I don't mind having a 4 team playoff, but keep the BCS in place to determine the top 4 teams.
I've just accepted that there will always be complainers in college football. I guess that just carries more news. I guess I can be classified as one of them.:cool:
We agree here.
 

selmaborntidefan

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Btw - since we are now counting "injured players" as "acceptable excuses for failure," can we ALSO count "games decided by officials blown calls" as wins, too?
 

bamafaninOhiO

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May 11, 2010
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Btw - since we are now counting "injured players" as "acceptable excuses for failure," can we ALSO count "games decided by officials blown calls" as wins, too?
Good suggestion, maybe that can be added in as a subjective area the selection committee can use.

I dont mind a playoff, actually feel it will be fantastic, IF its done right and its true objective is to get the 4 BEST teams in, not ensure teams are included based on who they want to see (whether deserved or not)
 

1958againbear

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Jan 27, 2011
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Well B1G anyway. I alluded awhile ago to your being pleasantly different than most posters who are fans of another team who hang out on another team's board. Although I've never quite figured out why people do that, you don't seem to push an OSU agenda in a contradictory way and for whatever reason have an interest in Bama and this board. As such I'm happy to have you here and read your posts.

But don't expect me to defend the B1G and especially that idiot Delaney and his politicking, as well as the new playoff system.

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KrAzY3

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Maybe we can get them to include 'do overs' also...like our last second interception against TAMU...
;)
The interesting thing is they seem to be following the BCS mantra of ignoring margin of victory. The la la la can't hear you logic that said Notre Dame was better than Alabama, thanks in part to people ignoring scores. So, they say that they will take into consideration where games are played, but no mention as of yet of margin of victory.

Ironically (or intentionally?) they could come down on Alabama hard for losing at home to Texas A&M and LSU, while forgiving a team for losing on the road, even if the road victory wasn't a close game. Now, that might be reading too far into it, but the whole while I've been paying attention to what they've said, and so far they have consistently met my expectations, in that they have consistently been disappointing.

It's extremely odd to see them say that they will consider where the games are played, injuries, conference champions, and strength of schedule. Yet, they haven't breathed a word about the polls or margin of victory, so basically they're trying hard not to use common sense. Apply their criteria to Okie St. and Alabama in 2011 and they put Okie St. higher, which seems to be their test case.

I wish I was kidding, but when you read over what they said, it's like they all sat down and said ok, how could we get Okie St. in and keep Alabama out.

SoS: Alabama 13, Oklahoma St. 5
Where games were played: Alabama lost at home, Oklahoma St. on the road.
Injuries: Not sure about this (do plane crashes count?).
Conference championship: Oklahoma St. won their conference, Alabama didn't.

So, magically three out of four categories favor Oklahoma St (perhaps all four). What you don't have is anything that would have favored Alabama. Margin of victory, rankings in the polls, etc... So, basically it's all about coming up with excuses not to pick the best team.
 

9jack9

Scout Team
Jan 14, 2007
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British Premier League for instance does not have a playoff system.
As an aside: if I could scrap the entire NCAA conference structure system and start over, I'd take all of FBS, FCS, and DII, and organize the whole thing into regional 9 or 10 team tiers with promotion and relegation along the lines of the English football league system. Let teams naturally find their own level of competition.
 

1958againbear

1st Team
Jan 27, 2011
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The interesting thing is they seem to be following the BCS mantra of ignoring margin of victory. The la la la can't hear you logic that said Notre Dame was better than Alabama, thanks in part to people ignoring scores. So, they say that they will take into consideration where games are played, but no mention as of yet of margin of victory.

Ironically (or intentionally?) they could come down on Alabama hard for losing at home to Texas A&M and LSU, while forgiving a team for losing on the road, even if the road victory wasn't a close game. Now, that might be reading too far into it, but the whole while I've been paying attention to what they've said, and so far they have consistently met my expectations, in that they have consistently been disappointing.

It's extremely odd to see them say that they will consider where the games are played, injuries, conference champions, and strength of schedule. Yet, they haven't breathed a word about the polls or margin of victory, so basically they're trying hard not to use common sense. Apply their criteria to Okie St. and Alabama in 2011 and they put Okie St. higher, which seems to be their test case.

I wish I was kidding, but when you read over what they said, it's like they all sat down and said ok, how could we get Okie St. in and keep Alabama out.

SoS: Alabama 13, Oklahoma St. 5
Where games were played: Alabama lost at home, Oklahoma St. on the road.
Injuries: Not sure about this (do plane crashes count?).
Conference championship: Oklahoma St. won their conference, Alabama didn't.

So, magically three out of four categories favor Oklahoma St (perhaps all four). What you don't have is anything that would have favored Alabama. Margin of victory, rankings in the polls, etc... So, basically it's all about coming up with excuses not to pick the best team.
This^^^^. Much of what you said hits the nail right on the head. Although we have a history of getting screwed by the polls, the polls got us in last year's BCSCG whereas the 'committee' would've put Okie State in for sure when we were the best of the rest to play LSwho. If it was such an affront to have a team who didn't win their conference BUT WAS BETTER THAN EVERYBODY ELSE IN THE COUNTRY, including Okie State, in the one game 'playoff', where's the outrage over the NCAA's 64 plus team basketball tournament, the NFL playoffs, MLB playoffs, etc. I hope we win the next several BCS plus playoffs to the point that Delaney and the others puke at the sound of Saban and Bama.

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B1GTide

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Apr 13, 2012
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I asked "do you see the humor in my post :)". I put a smiley face on the end to show I was trying to be humorous. I don't think you were trying to be funny but no big deal. I'm still elated over the #1 recruiting ranking for Bama. Nothings' going to ruin it for me. Roll Tide.
It's cool, and I am also happy that my two favorite schools had great recruiting classes. Ours wasn't nearly as good as yours, but I feel good about the direction that we are moving in.

And I agree with the posters that said that I should have used a smiley. My mistake, and something that I should keep in mind. Tone is hard to imply on a message board.
 

B1GTide

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Apr 13, 2012
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Well B1G anyway. I alluded awhile ago to your being pleasantly different than most posters who are fans of another team who hang out on another team's board. Although I've never quite figured out why people do that, you don't seem to push an OSU agenda in a contradictory way and for whatever reason have an interest in Bama and this board. As such I'm happy to have you here and read your posts.
I originally came here as a way to connect with my passed father, but have really come to enjoy the way that you guys (and gals) discuss the sport. I spend less and less time on OSU boards as the tone of this board makes it much harder to tolerate the crud that goes on elsewhere. This is a great board, and the mods make it so by keeping the negativity and smack talk out.
 

1958againbear

1st Team
Jan 27, 2011
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I originally came here as a way to connect with my passed father, but have really come to enjoy the way that you guys (and gals) discuss the sport. I spend less and less time on OSU boards as the tone of this board makes it much harder to tolerate the crud that goes on elsewhere. This is a great board, and the mods make it so by keeping the negativity and smack talk out.
Well here's to you and your passed father. I hope he's also enjoying the repartee here on TideFans, the greatest board there is. And thanks as always to the mods who do such a great job.

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PalmBayBama

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Oct 11, 2005
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Bringing injuries into the equation is intended to prop up the smaller schools that don't have depth. When Alabama suffers a key injury, we replace the player with another great player. Saying that a loss is more forgivable because of an injury is saying that depth isn't part of what makes a team great. The national championship should go to the best team, which includes more than just the opening-day starters.
 

bamadp

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Sep 24, 2006
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The idea of a playoff to crown a champion is OK, but the PTB are going about this backwards and making the playoffs conform to a flawed FBS. There are currently 120 teams and 11 conferences in the FBS, way to many and to varied. Some conferences have 14 teams, some 12, some 10, some 8, some with CCG's, some without, some teams with 20k average attendance and $20m athletic budgets in the same classification as teams averaging 100k with $100m budgets. That's like having Mountain Brook and Ider fighting for an Alabama high school championship and then trying to make a playoff that's "fair".
These playoffs aren't going to fix the problem, just cover it up. If they're not going to fix the FBS, the current way is better. They'll go from 4 teams to 8 for sure, and then probably to 12 or 16. The FCS started their playoffs with 4 in 1973 I think, next year it'll be 24. Expansion is inevitable. If the FBS was fixed first and then a playoff was formed, it would work.
 

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