Maryland 247sports site reporting UNC has a Big Ten offer

rgw

Suspended
Sep 15, 2003
20,852
1,351
232
Tuscaloosa
Took a look at Mizzou's website and answered my own question. They averaged somewhere between 64-66k this season at Faurot Field. Must be Missouri.
 

TiderJack

Hall of Fame
Jul 9, 2010
12,185
6,170
187
Inverness, AL
At what point does the business model stop working in practice? What gains do we really get in modest football markets in Virginia and North Carolina
When we can not add more eyeballs watching our games. The excitement of the SEC coming to these markets will be huge as it has been in Texas. In th.e long term if we get the NC and VA markets we are moving up the eastern coast (the most heavily populated area of the country) and with VA you add the DC market. I don't think you can classify it as a modest football market.
 

rgw

Suspended
Sep 15, 2003
20,852
1,351
232
Tuscaloosa
Is DC a college sports town though? I should have been clearer with that...will they be interested in college football like the Skins?
 

KrAzY3

Hall of Fame
Jan 18, 2006
10,615
4,540
187
43
kraizy.art
That's my point really. At what point does the business model stop working in practice? What gains do we really get in modest football markets in Virginia and North Carolina...especially when it seems like we will be getting the Auburn equivalent of each state in the process?
As to your latter point, I don't think the SEC should expand just to expand. If they make the right additions, great, but they shouldn't go into a state simply to be there. Otherwise, why not just go straight to Ohio or New York? As to the first point... you are kind of on to something. I think cable fees are nearing unsustainable levels. When we first got basic cable it was $12, now ESPN alone is like $6. Eventually all this money they are throwing around is going to dry up, unless they make some real changes. People are not going to pay $200 a month for cable.
I'd add, that the ACC has been in the quandary for a decade now. They expanded into New England with Boston College and to the edge of Florida with Miami while bringing in Virginia Tech - the second best Big East football power - in the process. What did it do for them in football? Nothing much really.
You add two programs whose combined attendance in football isn't much more than that of Alabama's and that's how it goes. People keep thinking success on the football field is a sure fire indicator of value to a conference. If that was the case, every conference would have been dying to add Boise St. There are many other factors and clearly Miami and Virginia Tech didn't bring those with them. They are proof positive you can't just pile teams that have won a lot of football games lately on top of other teams that have won a lot of football games lately and come up with something better.
Is DC a college sports town though? I should have been clearer with that...will they be interested in college football like the Skins?
They have slowly and grudgingly given Virginia Tech some attention. But everything I have seen indicates they are a pro football town, and are far too diverse to get behind a single college football team even if they did care about college sports. That's one reason I don't see the state of Virginia was being that attractive.
 

BamaFossil

All-American
Jun 3, 2008
3,216
357
107
Williamsburg, VA
Is DC a college sports town though? I should have been clearer with that...will they be interested in college football like the Skins?
Many of my Virginia years were in the DC area. DC is a pro town. Redskins uber alles. (This is despite Dan Snider doing all he can to drive away the Redskins fans. But I digress...) Nats & Wizards compete for a very distant second place. DC residents are from all over; and bring their college allegiances with 'em. Heck, there's a credible Bama following in the DC area! But my own observations - via lots of college football discussions over almost three decades in the DC area - are that VaTech and MD have more support than any other single school.
 

rgw

Suspended
Sep 15, 2003
20,852
1,351
232
Tuscaloosa
Krazy, you seem to be on about the same page as me on this subject. So do you think at a certain point that if we're going to add teams that the decision may be to look within the market footprint and bring in programs who have fan interest and the ability to share the weight like Clemson and FSU?

My thing is that I think FSU and Clemson are as good or better additions with no market expansion involved than any reasonable market expansion option. I'm kind of starting to agree with you about the Notre Dame idea. They're the biggest jewel available and worth stretching the geographic bounds over. Obviously, I prefer the FSU+Clemson plan to Notre Dame but if we're going to get a bigger footprint then lets really get something out of it.
 
Last edited:

TiderJack

Hall of Fame
Jul 9, 2010
12,185
6,170
187
Inverness, AL
Is DC a college sports town though? I should have been clearer with that...will they be interested in college football like the Skins?
You are correct that DC is a pro sports city but we would get a certain percentage of that area to watch.

With VA we would get the 12th largest populated state with 8.1 mil people and with NC we would get the 10th largest populated state with 9.7 mil people. They would be #4 and #5 most populated states if they joined the SEC behind only TX, FLA and GA. We would be adding over 19 mil people if you include DC to the SEC footprint and I think this would certainly outweigh adding Clemson and FSU who are already in our footprint. I totally agree Clemson and FSU would make our league better in football but.....
 
Last edited:

rgw

Suspended
Sep 15, 2003
20,852
1,351
232
Tuscaloosa
That 19-mil isn't going to all watch college football though. That is the problem, we may pull one over the broadcasters with the big market numbers for a contract but they'll tell us to readjust our offers if they aren't pulling in acceptable numbers in those new states. As krazy said, sports on basic cable have been a huge driving factor in the growth for cable/satellite subscription cost. We're going to find the ceiling for which the cable providers are willing to pay to have ESPN and others on basic cable. When basic cable packages start moving to premium packages because of their cost, the viewership will drop and the television contracts with the conferences will get readjusted.
 

TiderJack

Hall of Fame
Jul 9, 2010
12,185
6,170
187
Inverness, AL
That 19-mil isn't going to all watch college football though. That is the problem, we may pull one over the broadcasters with the big market numbers for a contract but they'll tell us to readjust our offers if they aren't pulling in acceptable numbers in those new states. As krazy said, sports on basic cable have been a huge driving factor in the growth for cable/satellite subscription cost. We're going to find the ceiling for which the cable providers are willing to pay to have ESPN and others on basic cable. When basic cable packages start moving to premium packages because of their cost, the viewership will drop and the television contracts with the conferences will get readjusted.
Correct. You are never going to sell everyone in a certain market but you use the total number of potential customers when negotiating. I see these two states as extremely attractive additions to our footprint.
 

JDCrimson

Hall of Fame
Feb 12, 2006
5,312
4,358
187
51
Its pretty obvious that it appears the Big10 has to expand its membership and market penetration to somehow expand revenue for its network. I am not sure that is the case for the SEC though. Since the SEC is heavily invested in ESPN - its seems the SEC is more focused on taking the brand it has and expanding that nationally. Maybe its already knows that you cant expand value by adding teams because some of the mitigating factors that Krazy has talked about. If that is indeed the case, then SEC 1) needs to expand it scheduling of OOC teams at desirable venues across the country for other marquee teams within the conference and not just Alabama doing it, and 2) expand the competitiveness of its basketball and baseball. As to point 2, it would seem to be cheaper and easier to improve revenue possibilities with the other 2 sports rather than continuing to prospect for more football revenue when it seems its not there. Expansion that doesnt dilute football revenue but is accretive in basketball and baseball revenue would seem to be the route to go.

To me this makes the ability to do a UNC/Duke tandem offer doable. So long as UNC is one of the partners I think you could make almost any combination work - UNC/NCST, UNC/Clemson. I just dont think a UNC/UVA deal is automatically the best partnership to offer if you desire national appeal for your conference - which I think is priority number 1.

To me if you cant justify a UNC/Duke offer - the next best thing is to pair UNC with a strong overall athletic program as a backfill in our conference region with a UNC/FSU or UNC/Clemson. These 2 potential partnerships would not necessarily dilute football but could still improve basketball and baseball. If you cant get a UNC as part of a deal, then I think you have to look west again, because I think an OU/OSU is more valuable than anything involving VTech.

While I agree with a lot Krazy has pointed out, I dont wholly agree with the revenue is revenue argument. Contributions from alumni dont provide an indication of the TV market appeal of a school, imo, because those revenues cant be allocated with other schools. There is no correlation between the investment made by alumni in UVA and their competitiveness in athletics which results in TV value. Any school who is solidly competitive in the 3 major sports will be more valuable to TV even if they inadequately supported by alumni revenue as compared to another school.

Ability to generate TV revenue is the absolute most critical factor in determining who is a worthwhile expansion partner. It has been well-documented that attendance and ticket revenues are being impacted by technological developments in TV. More ticket revenue while important is not the most important criteria because that revenue cant be shared.

If I am the SEC, my priority is grow revenue by expanding the brand that it already has - if expansion helps with that then so be it. But I think you expand revenue by improving non-football revenue (in basketball you cant do this without expansion, imo). Then you increase the marquee early season football OCC matchups in places like Dallas, KC, New Orleans, ATL, Charlotte, and DC maybe even throw in a place like Chicago or Indy just to challenge the Big10 in their own backyard. Next, I would uproot the SEC Championship and move it around between the Dallas, New Orleans, and ATL. All of this would create viewership which in turn creates TV dollars for everyone.
 
Last edited:

KrAzY3

Hall of Fame
Jan 18, 2006
10,615
4,540
187
43
kraizy.art
Krazy, you seem to be on about the same page as me on this subject. So do you think at a certain point that if we're going to add teams that the decision may be to look within the market footprint and bring in programs who have fan interest and the ability to share the weight like Clemson and FSU? .
I personally hope it doesn't come to adding Clemson and FSU simply because at that point wouldn't the SEC just be adding them to add them? The Big 12 might end up with both of those, and they certainly have value. Also, they unquestionable fit the prototype of an SEC school. But, between the road blocks that South Carolina and Florida would throw up and a few other factors I just don't see it happening. I think Notre Dame+North Carolina is the grand slam possibility, but it is extremely remote of course. I'm at the point that I say Notre Dame and/or North Carolina or stand pat. Once the network gets rolling things could change though, but I see no point in making a move earlier unless you get a big one on the hook.

Also, I'm not sure the SEC can get better in football. I just have to throw that out there. I think you rock the boat too much at this point and you might just tip it over. Notre Dame, like Texas A&M would be worth the risk, but let's not forget that Texas A&M nearly cost the SEC a national championship.
 

KrAzY3

Hall of Fame
Jan 18, 2006
10,615
4,540
187
43
kraizy.art
To me this makes the ability to do a UNC/Duke tandem offer doable. So long as UNC is one of the partners I think you could make almost any combination work - UNC/NCST, UNC/Clemson. I just dont think a UNC/UVA deal is automatically the best partnership to offer if you desire national appeal for your conference - which I think is priority number 1.
This is kind of out of left field, but what would you think of a North Carolina/Syracuse tandem? Two strong basketball schools that have tolerable support for football and obviously both have huge markets. I know Syracuse is a reach, and that's a Big 10 network deal type of move, but you'd kill two birds with one stone by adding a strong basketball brand and entering a massive market. If it's all about the network, then I think Syracuse deserves some consideration.
 

Crimson1967

Hall of Fame
Nov 22, 2011
18,711
9,897
187
Prior to Beamer, Virginia Tech's all time record was 481-334-441. Not exactly what I'd call horrible.
 

rgw

Suspended
Sep 15, 2003
20,852
1,351
232
Tuscaloosa
The SEC Network is happening. It's been a slow roll on progress but it will happen. Most of the limitations are coming from the broadcasters who are already under contract. Obviously a new conference network will require some recontracting to give the SEC access to Tier III games and other small revenue sports in the Spring. CBS and ESPN have no desire of going to negotiating table and signing papers that effectively make the SEC their competitor.

The only way the SEC Network will thrive is by getting some Tier III football games in the Fall and men's basketball in the Spring. I wouldn't mind expanding into basketball country like North Carolina to enhance the appeal of the SEC basketball product. Gymnastics meets and softball are only going to garner so much interest. A North Carolina game or two a month on the SEC Network during basketball season could do something for the channel.
 

JDCrimson

Hall of Fame
Feb 12, 2006
5,312
4,358
187
51
I personally hope it doesn't come to adding Clemson and FSU simply because at that point wouldn't the SEC just be adding them to add them? The Big 12 might end up with both of those, and they certainly have value. Also, they unquestionable fit the prototype of an SEC school. But, between the road blocks that South Carolina and Florida would throw up and a few other factors I just don't see it happening. I think Notre Dame+North Carolina is the grand slam possibility, but it is extremely remote of course. I'm at the point that I say Notre Dame and/or North Carolina or stand pat. Once the network gets rolling things could change though, but I see no point in making a move earlier unless you get a big one on the hook.

Also, I'm not sure the SEC can get better in football. I just have to throw that out there. I think you rock the boat too much at this point and you might just tip it over. Notre Dame, like Texas A&M would be worth the risk, but let's not forget that Texas A&M nearly cost the SEC a national championship.
They cant stand pat on expansion because of the value of media rights seems to be changing by the day - everyday the Big10 expands is another day of lost revenue for the SEC because its locked into its contract with ESPN and CBS. I am willing to bet almost any media guru would tell the SEC media rights are worth 1X of the Big10's media rights but to the advantage of their broadcast partners that value cant be tapped due to the length and exit clauses in its current media contracts.

So against this backdrop, the SEC really needs to keep pace somehow. The ACC has a media value of $X - that is up for grabs and doesnt represent new money - it would just be reallocated to the expanding conference. If you take the ACC's media value and divide that up by the programs who drive that value then its pretty obvious how you can make a play for someone other than UNC because Clemson and FSU contribute significantly to that conference's value as does UNC and Duke - everybody else in in that conference really are expendable. Same goes with expanding in the Big 12 with OU/OSU - take them and you pretty much gut the remaining media value in that conference. Again no new money - just reallocated to the SEC coffers. Sure you can argue there would be a competitive discount in figured in on such expansion but I think that could be offset with marquee matchup opportunities and certainly more bowl revenue for the conference.

When you look at expansion this way, to me it appears that expansion is really the low-hanging fruit in growing revenue for these conferences. The real hard work is making basketball and baseball more profitable which the SEC seems to be totally inept at doing presently.
 
Last edited:

JDCrimson

Hall of Fame
Feb 12, 2006
5,312
4,358
187
51
This is kind of out of left field, but what would you think of a North Carolina/Syracuse tandem? Two strong basketball schools that have tolerable support for football and obviously both have huge markets. I know Syracuse is a reach, and that's a Big 10 network deal type of move, but you'd kill two birds with one stone by adding a strong basketball brand and entering a massive market. If it's all about the network, then I think Syracuse deserves some consideration.
Well, they do play their football in the Carrier Dome. I dont know how big that venue is but if big enough it certainly could open up some interesting pre-season and post-season opportunities in football and basketball.
 

KrAzY3

Hall of Fame
Jan 18, 2006
10,615
4,540
187
43
kraizy.art
Prior to Beamer, Virginia Tech's all time record was 481-334-441. Not exactly what I'd call horrible.
Not sure about that record, but they went to three bowl games prior to 1980. Three
They were in the Southern Conference from 1922-1964. The won it once. Yeah... they were pretty crappy, may be they beat up on nobodies but they never beat up on somebodies. College Football Data Warehouse has them as the 60th all time football team and I'm not sure they ever cracked 50K in average attendance until the 2000s. Historical football power they are not. They still can't fit 70K in a their stadium, but Rice could. That should tell you about how well developed the Virginia Tech football program is. It's not SEC ready, let's just put it that way.
They cant stand pat on expansion because of the value of media rights seems to be changing by the day - everyday the Big10 expands is another day of lost revenue for the SEC because its locked into its contract with ESPN and CBS.
I don't believe the SEC is even done negotiating their new rights after they added A&M and Missouri. So, I don't think they are losing ground, in fact I think they need to delay the next round as long as possible so that they can maximize the value of an SEC network and hopefully squeeze a few more bucks out of the broadcast and cable deals.
 

Latest threads

TideFans.shop : 2024 Madness!

TideFans.shop - Get YOUR Bama Gear HERE!”></a>
<br />

<!--/ END TideFans.shop & item link \-->
<p style= Purchases made through our TideFans.shop and Amazon.com links may result in a commission being paid to TideFans.