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  1. #92
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    Re: Maryland 247sports site reporting UNC has a Big Ten offer

    Quote Originally Posted by rgw View Post
    That 19-mil isn't going to all watch college football though. That is the problem, we may pull one over the broadcasters with the big market numbers for a contract but they'll tell us to readjust our offers if they aren't pulling in acceptable numbers in those new states. As krazy said, sports on basic cable have been a huge driving factor in the growth for cable/satellite subscription cost. We're going to find the ceiling for which the cable providers are willing to pay to have ESPN and others on basic cable. When basic cable packages start moving to premium packages because of their cost, the viewership will drop and the television contracts with the conferences will get readjusted.
    Correct. You are never going to sell everyone in a certain market but you use the total number of potential customers when negotiating. I see these two states as extremely attractive additions to our footprint.

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  3. #93

    Re: Maryland 247sports site reporting UNC has a Big Ten offer

    Its pretty obvious that it appears the Big10 has to expand its membership and market penetration to somehow expand revenue for its network. I am not sure that is the case for the SEC though. Since the SEC is heavily invested in ESPN - its seems the SEC is more focused on taking the brand it has and expanding that nationally. Maybe its already knows that you cant expand value by adding teams because some of the mitigating factors that Krazy has talked about. If that is indeed the case, then SEC 1) needs to expand it scheduling of OOC teams at desirable venues across the country for other marquee teams within the conference and not just Alabama doing it, and 2) expand the competitiveness of its basketball and baseball. As to point 2, it would seem to be cheaper and easier to improve revenue possibilities with the other 2 sports rather than continuing to prospect for more football revenue when it seems its not there. Expansion that doesnt dilute football revenue but is accretive in basketball and baseball revenue would seem to be the route to go.

    To me this makes the ability to do a UNC/Duke tandem offer doable. So long as UNC is one of the partners I think you could make almost any combination work - UNC/NCST, UNC/Clemson. I just dont think a UNC/UVA deal is automatically the best partnership to offer if you desire national appeal for your conference - which I think is priority number 1.

    To me if you cant justify a UNC/Duke offer - the next best thing is to pair UNC with a strong overall athletic program as a backfill in our conference region with a UNC/FSU or UNC/Clemson. These 2 potential partnerships would not necessarily dilute football but could still improve basketball and baseball. If you cant get a UNC as part of a deal, then I think you have to look west again, because I think an OU/OSU is more valuable than anything involving VTech.

    While I agree with a lot Krazy has pointed out, I dont wholly agree with the revenue is revenue argument. Contributions from alumni dont provide an indication of the TV market appeal of a school, imo, because those revenues cant be allocated with other schools. There is no correlation between the investment made by alumni in UVA and their competitiveness in athletics which results in TV value. Any school who is solidly competitive in the 3 major sports will be more valuable to TV even if they inadequately supported by alumni revenue as compared to another school.

    Ability to generate TV revenue is the absolute most critical factor in determining who is a worthwhile expansion partner. It has been well-documented that attendance and ticket revenues are being impacted by technological developments in TV. More ticket revenue while important is not the most important criteria because that revenue cant be shared.

    If I am the SEC, my priority is grow revenue by expanding the brand that it already has - if expansion helps with that then so be it. But I think you expand revenue by improving non-football revenue (in basketball you cant do this without expansion, imo). Then you increase the marquee early season football OCC matchups in places like Dallas, KC, New Orleans, ATL, Charlotte, and DC maybe even throw in a place like Chicago or Indy just to challenge the Big10 in their own backyard. Next, I would uproot the SEC Championship and move it around between the Dallas, New Orleans, and ATL. All of this would create viewership which in turn creates TV dollars for everyone.
    Last edited by JDCrimson; February 20th, 2013 at 02:59 PM.

  4. #94

    Re: Maryland 247sports site reporting UNC has a Big Ten offer

    Quote Originally Posted by rgw View Post
    Krazy, you seem to be on about the same page as me on this subject. So do you think at a certain point that if we're going to add teams that the decision may be to look within the market footprint and bring in programs who have fan interest and the ability to share the weight like Clemson and FSU? .
    I personally hope it doesn't come to adding Clemson and FSU simply because at that point wouldn't the SEC just be adding them to add them? The Big 12 might end up with both of those, and they certainly have value. Also, they unquestionable fit the prototype of an SEC school. But, between the road blocks that South Carolina and Florida would throw up and a few other factors I just don't see it happening. I think Notre Dame+North Carolina is the grand slam possibility, but it is extremely remote of course. I'm at the point that I say Notre Dame and/or North Carolina or stand pat. Once the network gets rolling things could change though, but I see no point in making a move earlier unless you get a big one on the hook.

    Also, I'm not sure the SEC can get better in football. I just have to throw that out there. I think you rock the boat too much at this point and you might just tip it over. Notre Dame, like Texas A&M would be worth the risk, but let's not forget that Texas A&M nearly cost the SEC a national championship.
    "Everybody that chooses to go to the game should stay there and support the team for the game." - Nick Saban
    "This is how it should be every game, every home game... the fans were just amazing". - Kevin Norwood on 2013 LSU game
    "Four, five-star recruits are in Tuscaloosa, and then they see a stadium start emptying out at halftime"

  5. #95

    Re: Maryland 247sports site reporting UNC has a Big Ten offer

    Quote Originally Posted by JDCrimson View Post
    To me this makes the ability to do a UNC/Duke tandem offer doable. So long as UNC is one of the partners I think you could make almost any combination work - UNC/NCST, UNC/Clemson. I just dont think a UNC/UVA deal is automatically the best partnership to offer if you desire national appeal for your conference - which I think is priority number 1.
    This is kind of out of left field, but what would you think of a North Carolina/Syracuse tandem? Two strong basketball schools that have tolerable support for football and obviously both have huge markets. I know Syracuse is a reach, and that's a Big 10 network deal type of move, but you'd kill two birds with one stone by adding a strong basketball brand and entering a massive market. If it's all about the network, then I think Syracuse deserves some consideration.
    "Everybody that chooses to go to the game should stay there and support the team for the game." - Nick Saban
    "This is how it should be every game, every home game... the fans were just amazing". - Kevin Norwood on 2013 LSU game
    "Four, five-star recruits are in Tuscaloosa, and then they see a stadium start emptying out at halftime"

  6. #96

    Re: Maryland 247sports site reporting UNC has a Big Ten offer

    Prior to Beamer, Virginia Tech's all time record was 481-334-441. Not exactly what I'd call horrible.

  7. #97
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    Re: Maryland 247sports site reporting UNC has a Big Ten offer

    The SEC Network is happening. It's been a slow roll on progress but it will happen. Most of the limitations are coming from the broadcasters who are already under contract. Obviously a new conference network will require some recontracting to give the SEC access to Tier III games and other small revenue sports in the Spring. CBS and ESPN have no desire of going to negotiating table and signing papers that effectively make the SEC their competitor.

    The only way the SEC Network will thrive is by getting some Tier III football games in the Fall and men's basketball in the Spring. I wouldn't mind expanding into basketball country like North Carolina to enhance the appeal of the SEC basketball product. Gymnastics meets and softball are only going to garner so much interest. A North Carolina game or two a month on the SEC Network during basketball season could do something for the channel.

  8. #98

    Re: Maryland 247sports site reporting UNC has a Big Ten offer

    Quote Originally Posted by KrAzY3 View Post
    I personally hope it doesn't come to adding Clemson and FSU simply because at that point wouldn't the SEC just be adding them to add them? The Big 12 might end up with both of those, and they certainly have value. Also, they unquestionable fit the prototype of an SEC school. But, between the road blocks that South Carolina and Florida would throw up and a few other factors I just don't see it happening. I think Notre Dame+North Carolina is the grand slam possibility, but it is extremely remote of course. I'm at the point that I say Notre Dame and/or North Carolina or stand pat. Once the network gets rolling things could change though, but I see no point in making a move earlier unless you get a big one on the hook.

    Also, I'm not sure the SEC can get better in football. I just have to throw that out there. I think you rock the boat too much at this point and you might just tip it over. Notre Dame, like Texas A&M would be worth the risk, but let's not forget that Texas A&M nearly cost the SEC a national championship.
    They cant stand pat on expansion because of the value of media rights seems to be changing by the day - everyday the Big10 expands is another day of lost revenue for the SEC because its locked into its contract with ESPN and CBS. I am willing to bet almost any media guru would tell the SEC media rights are worth 1X of the Big10's media rights but to the advantage of their broadcast partners that value cant be tapped due to the length and exit clauses in its current media contracts.

    So against this backdrop, the SEC really needs to keep pace somehow. The ACC has a media value of $X - that is up for grabs and doesnt represent new money - it would just be reallocated to the expanding conference. If you take the ACC's media value and divide that up by the programs who drive that value then its pretty obvious how you can make a play for someone other than UNC because Clemson and FSU contribute significantly to that conference's value as does UNC and Duke - everybody else in in that conference really are expendable. Same goes with expanding in the Big 12 with OU/OSU - take them and you pretty much gut the remaining media value in that conference. Again no new money - just reallocated to the SEC coffers. Sure you can argue there would be a competitive discount in figured in on such expansion but I think that could be offset with marquee matchup opportunities and certainly more bowl revenue for the conference.

    When you look at expansion this way, to me it appears that expansion is really the low-hanging fruit in growing revenue for these conferences. The real hard work is making basketball and baseball more profitable which the SEC seems to be totally inept at doing presently.
    Last edited by JDCrimson; February 20th, 2013 at 03:25 PM.

  9. #99

    Re: Maryland 247sports site reporting UNC has a Big Ten offer

    Quote Originally Posted by KrAzY3 View Post
    This is kind of out of left field, but what would you think of a North Carolina/Syracuse tandem? Two strong basketball schools that have tolerable support for football and obviously both have huge markets. I know Syracuse is a reach, and that's a Big 10 network deal type of move, but you'd kill two birds with one stone by adding a strong basketball brand and entering a massive market. If it's all about the network, then I think Syracuse deserves some consideration.
    Well, they do play their football in the Carrier Dome. I dont know how big that venue is but if big enough it certainly could open up some interesting pre-season and post-season opportunities in football and basketball.

  10. #100

    Re: Maryland 247sports site reporting UNC has a Big Ten offer

    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson1967 View Post
    Prior to Beamer, Virginia Tech's all time record was 481-334-441. Not exactly what I'd call horrible.
    Not sure about that record, but they went to three bowl games prior to 1980. Three
    They were in the Southern Conference from 1922-1964. The won it once. Yeah... they were pretty crappy, may be they beat up on nobodies but they never beat up on somebodies. College Football Data Warehouse has them as the 60th all time football team and I'm not sure they ever cracked 50K in average attendance until the 2000s. Historical football power they are not. They still can't fit 70K in a their stadium, but Rice could. That should tell you about how well developed the Virginia Tech football program is. It's not SEC ready, let's just put it that way.
    Quote Originally Posted by JDCrimson View Post
    They cant stand pat on expansion because of the value of media rights seems to be changing by the day - everyday the Big10 expands is another day of lost revenue for the SEC because its locked into its contract with ESPN and CBS.
    I don't believe the SEC is even done negotiating their new rights after they added A&M and Missouri. So, I don't think they are losing ground, in fact I think they need to delay the next round as long as possible so that they can maximize the value of an SEC network and hopefully squeeze a few more bucks out of the broadcast and cable deals.
    "Everybody that chooses to go to the game should stay there and support the team for the game." - Nick Saban
    "This is how it should be every game, every home game... the fans were just amazing". - Kevin Norwood on 2013 LSU game
    "Four, five-star recruits are in Tuscaloosa, and then they see a stadium start emptying out at halftime"

  11. #101
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    Re: Maryland 247sports site reporting UNC has a Big Ten offer

    Quote Originally Posted by KrAzY3 View Post
    I don't believe the SEC is even done negotiating their new rights after they added A&M and Missouri. So, I don't think they are losing ground, in fact I think they need to delay the next round as long as possible so that they can maximize the value of an SEC network and hopefully squeeze a few more bucks out of the broadcast and cable deals.
    I agree with you here. They're probably prudent in waiting because expansion may not be over and we may have an opportunity to add a high quality asset that changes the whole dynamic.

  12. #102

    Re: Maryland 247sports site reporting UNC has a Big Ten offer

    Quote Originally Posted by KrAzY3 View Post
    Not sure about that record, but they went to three bowl games prior to 1980. Three
    That is three more than Virginia played prior to 1980.

  13. #103
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    Re: Maryland 247sports site reporting UNC has a Big Ten offer

    I'm guessing UNC and UVA throw better cocktail parties, wear better bow ties and have nicer shoes.

    Bring 'em on.

    I'm not joking.

  14. #104

    Re: Maryland 247sports site reporting UNC has a Big Ten offer

    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson1967 View Post
    That is three more than Virginia played prior to 1980.
    Heh, true. I never said Virginia was a football power though, but as I already pointed out, they have more sports revenue while sucking at football than VT does while excelling at football. The lack of football success from Virginia schools is further evidence to a right to expect lackluster football products from the state of Virginia with either school. The difference is Virginia wouldn't be worthless if they sucked at football, and in this scenario they'd tag along with UNC. The more I look at the state of Virginia, the more I don't want the SEC there at all, but if it must happen I pray it's not via the Auburn of North Carolina and Miami Jr.
    "Everybody that chooses to go to the game should stay there and support the team for the game." - Nick Saban
    "This is how it should be every game, every home game... the fans were just amazing". - Kevin Norwood on 2013 LSU game
    "Four, five-star recruits are in Tuscaloosa, and then they see a stadium start emptying out at halftime"

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