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  1. #105

    Re: Maryland 247sports site reporting UNC has a Big Ten offer

    Quote Originally Posted by KrAzY3 View Post
    Heh, true. I never said Virginia was a football power though, but as I already pointed out, they have more sports revenue while sucking at football than VT does while excelling at football. The lack of football success from Virginia schools is further evidence to a right to expect lackluster football products from the state of Virginia with either school. The difference is Virginia wouldn't be worthless if they sucked at football, and in this scenario they'd tag along with UNC. The more I look at the state of Virginia, the more I don't want the SEC there at all, but if it must happen I pray it's not via the Auburn of North Carolina and Miami Jr.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^This

    Virginia is a more valuable asset to the SEC than Virginia Tech.

    However, the HOME RUN for the SEC, given everything that's been mentioned, is without a doubt the value that UNC would bring to the SEC. Flagship school in a 9M population state that is growing, top 10 basketball program, high ceiling football program with the SEC label on the uniform, national brand and following, geographic and cultural fit, solid academics, etc.

    V Tech and NC State would be like adding another Mississippi State and Auburn.

    I also think UNC or Virginia would be more likely to join the SEC, if the other school is coming. Both are flagship schools of their respective States are would fill out the SEC from a geographical standpoint.

    I am surprised to see FSU and Clemson still being mentioned. I think the likelihood of that would be less 1%. The SEC already dominates the Florida and South Carolina markets. They would add much less to the conference than the UNC and Virginia scenario.

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  3. #106

    Re: Maryland 247sports site reporting UNC has a Big Ten offer

    I agree UNC would be preferable to NC State (although we would get to see our buddy Gottfried again), but I don't see how Virginia is head and shoulders above Tech. Their football history is pretty mediocre and while they are usually pretty decent in basketball. they aren't a national powerhouse that will bring in viewers.

  4. #107

    Re: Maryland 247sports site reporting UNC has a Big Ten offer

    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson1967 View Post
    they aren't a national powerhouse that will bring in viewers.
    Neither is Virginia Tech and that's the point. Virginia is incredibly more wealthier (I'm talking worth billions more), better academics, flagship, their athletic department is much healthier/generates more revenue, Virginia athletics are far more accomplished than Virginia Tech athletics... I mean when you go down the line, there is only one thing, one single thing of note that Virginia Tech does better than Virginia and that's football and that is only as of late. In other words, you subtract Beamer and the comparisons to Virginia become laughable. It's like comparing UAB to Alabama. I know football is important, but the SEC is already good at that anyway.

    I'm not sure why some people just can't see past the relatively recent past, but Virginia Tech just hasn't done anything of note historically. Period, end of story, and there's absolutely no sane reason to believe that a 66 year old Beamer is going to lead them to continued success in the brutal SEC. You have to anticipate Virginia Tech as a program going back to what they were before Beamer, which was a distant second, not even a true rival to Virginia in the state. In addition to that, their fans are fair-weather at best, in a market that is not known for its allegiances. These fan's father didn't grow up cheering for Virginia Tech, because when their fathers were growing up they probably didn't realize Virginia Tech even had a football team. I would argue that Virginia's fans have shown far more loyalty and would continue to do so.

    To reiterate, the Big 10 doesn't want VT, and the ACC didn't want VT. There's a reason for this and it's because it's Virginia Tech! Also, some people seem to think this "rabid" Virginia Tech fan-base, which didn't even exist in the 1990s is going to travel well. Really? They would be the northeastern tip of the conference, I think it's a bit unrealistic to think they would travel well, considering how notoriously sub-par ACC football attendance is. North Carolina is a good football state, and they have supported the ACC championship game well, but you want to know VT's attendance last ACC championship game in Florida? It was 27,360! Does that sound like a national powerhouse that will bring in viewers? 27K for a conference championship game?!?

    No, they don't travel well. No, they don't have rabid fans. No, they are not a true football power, and no they really don't offer the SEC anything other than their market. So, what it all comes down to is the fact that VT is extremely likely to become a Miss. State or a Vanderbilt (a dumber poorer version) if they join the SEC. Whereas, in the least Virginia is likely to be more of a richer Ole Miss or South Carolina with better academics. The SEC is already great at football, they don't need to sink so low as to pluck a 60th all time football program in the name of preserving their football brand. VT didn't make the ACC football brand better (in fact it got worse), and they won't make the SEC football brand better.

    Honestly, Virginia is probably my third choice or lower. But, Virginia Tech isn't even in my top five.
    "Everybody that chooses to go to the game should stay there and support the team for the game." - Nick Saban
    "This is how it should be every game, every home game... the fans were just amazing". - Kevin Norwood on 2013 LSU game
    "Four, five-star recruits are in Tuscaloosa, and then they see a stadium start emptying out at halftime"

  5. #108

    Re: Maryland 247sports site reporting UNC has a Big Ten offer

    Pointed this out in previous threads on this same subject, but I will reiterate here:

    The B1G is not just looking for geographic expansion to increase the profitability of the Big Ten Network, though that is certainly one part of their intention. The larger goal, however, is to expand the geographic scope of the B1G in every way imaginable -- national attention and exposure, influence, recruiting areas, etc. -- and hopefully use that as a mechanism to revitalize a conference that is about as stale as decade old Nabisco crackers.

    The basic problem that the B1G has now is the same that it has had for years: Negative demographics in its traditonal base, namely an increasingingly aging population, negative population growth, an economy that has shed jobs and income, rapidly decaying infrasture, and weakening turnout in their traditional recruiting hotbeds. They've got to expand into some new territories as a simple means of survival in their current form.

  6. #109
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    Re: Maryland 247sports site reporting UNC has a Big Ten offer

    BigEasy hits the nail on the head for the Big Ten POV. By contrast, the SEC's motivation for expansion should solely be to expand into the growing, talent-rich traditional Southern states.

  7. #110

    Re: Maryland 247sports site reporting UNC has a Big Ten offer

    Quote Originally Posted by rgw View Post
    BigEasy hits the nail on the head for the Big Ten POV. By contrast, the SEC's motivation for expansion should solely be to expand into the growing, talent-rich traditional Southern states.
    As a charter member of the ACC, and with its former AD as conference commissioner, North Carolina won't make the first move. Key thing to watch is the lawsuit over Maryland's exit penalty. If the Terps' get off free or at a reduced rate, Florida State and/or Clemson could quickly jump to the Big 12.

    That's when UNC will cut its best deal. Right now, the Heels are probably the only team in the country with open invitations to join any super conference it sees fit. If the ACC implodes, it will come down to a Big 10/SEC decision. Lots depends on whether UNC wants to remain part of the South, and which school it wants to bring along vs. what the SEC wants. The Big 10 would take the University of Phoenix if it gets UNC.
    Last edited by CrimsonEyeshade; February 21st, 2013 at 04:32 PM.

  8. #111
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    Re: Maryland 247sports site reporting UNC has a Big Ten offer

    I don't have strong feelings about who the SEC should target to get to 16 teams. I understand why the BIG has offered Rutgers and Maryland, tv markets. Are the DC and NYC markets really college football markets, and who in the hell watches Rutgers and Maryland? I guess I really don't understand the whole process of expansion.
    "My momma always said you got to put the past behind you before you can move on." Forrest Gump

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  9. #112

    Re: Maryland 247sports site reporting UNC has a Big Ten offer

    Quote Originally Posted by GrayTide View Post
    I don't have strong feelings about who the SEC should target to get to 16 teams. I understand why the BIG has offered Rutgers and Maryland, tv markets. Are the DC and NYC markets really college football markets, and who in the hell watches Rutgers and Maryland? I guess I really don't understand the whole process of expansion.
    It's not that you don't understand it, it seems just like you are overthinking it. Will penetrating the DC and NYC markets be likely? No, not really, but New Jersey and Maryland are very much growing areas in comparison to much of the traditional B1G Rust Belt territory, and Rutgers as a program has raised its standing substantially in recent years and Maryland continues to churn out more and more quality prep talent.

    Is it a given that they will be smash hits? Obviously not, and it may be of limited impact when the dust settles. The B1G, though, realizes it must do something in an attempt to revitalize itself, and the potential of something beats the certainty of nothing every time.

  10. #113
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    Re: Maryland 247sports site reporting UNC has a Big Ten offer

    Well stated. I just do not see any market above Virginia to Maine, and Virginia is questionable, that would be considered a hot market for college football; college basketball would be another strory. I also understand the desire to secure UNC, mostly for its basketball reputation and academics. IMO its football program would benefit in time from being a member of the SEC. Someone said a few posts back that getting say a UNC and possibly FSU would be a better bet than UNC and UVA and I tend to agree with that.
    "My momma always said you got to put the past behind you before you can move on." Forrest Gump

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  11. #114
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    Re: Maryland 247sports site reporting UNC has a Big Ten offer

    One of the main problems I have with expanding the SEC to 16 teams is that it creates, in essence, two separate leagues that happen to share a championship game and a scheduling arrangement. this particularly holds if the number of conference games remains at 8. 16 teams requires either a ninth conference game or the elimination of permanent opponents. Coaches don't want the former, and fans would hate the latter. By the way, this argument about 16 teams assumes the SEC would stay at 2 divisions. There are some interesting looking scenarios floating around for four four-team pods as divisions that seem workable, though in a complicated way.

    Keeping the SEC at 14 and adding a ninth conference game a year seems like the best solution for maintaining some degree of bonds between the two divisions.

    As for B1G expansion, many of their fans are hoping they expand to 18-20, with the idea being that they could then jettison all the new teams to one division and leave the other division full of traditional B1G schools.

  12. #115

    Re: Maryland 247sports site reporting UNC has a Big Ten offer

    Quote Originally Posted by TLIT View Post
    One of the main problems I have with expanding the SEC to 16 teams is that it creates, in essence, two separate leagues that happen to share a championship game and a scheduling arrangement. this particularly holds if the number of conference games remains at 8. 16 teams requires either a ninth conference game or the elimination of permanent opponents.
    I do think you could in essence create a semi-autonomous two division conference by going to 16. I am not completely sure that's a bad thing (playoff and all that aside). It could make the championship game even bigger, and could lead to SEC bowl pairings.

    It could even lead to bigger broadcast deals. For instance, one east and one west division game each week on CBS and that sort of thing. The SEC West is already the most powerful "conference" in all of college football, I'm not sure it's all bad if it became this bigger thing. Personally, I don't want the ninth conference game. I think it risks the SEC going over the cliff in terms of SoS, and surviving the SEC could become a ridiculous proposition. It also could be kind of a last option in re-negotiating the TV deals, so that's something that we might want to hold off on as long as possible anyway. Once the playoff gets going and we see how rigged it is, I think we can for a better opinion.

    The other thing is I don't like the idea of going beyond 16, and I don't like breaking up the divisions into quadrants. So, if they are going to 9 conference games, I think the pressure to add basketball schools REALLY goes up. Even then, it's not balanced but it's better than the alternative. For instance, say North Carolina and Virginia are added. Missouri moves over to the West, which is probably the best football school out of the three (but still not a power at least), and in terms of rotating games it's NC and Virginia popping up every now and then. If, it is as some people have suggested, a football power, then you risk another really rough game popping up on your schedule when you really should be trying to catch your breath. So, as I see it, adding basketball powers serves the dual purpose of not messing with football balance that the SEC has, and bettering the basketball brand.
    "Everybody that chooses to go to the game should stay there and support the team for the game." - Nick Saban
    "This is how it should be every game, every home game... the fans were just amazing". - Kevin Norwood on 2013 LSU game
    "Four, five-star recruits are in Tuscaloosa, and then they see a stadium start emptying out at halftime"

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