Link: ESPN reporting Miami accused of lack of control

rgw

Suspended
Sep 15, 2003
20,852
1,351
232
Tuscaloosa
It would be near criminal for the NCAA to levy major punishment from findings in an investigation where the NCAA president publicly admonished his investigators and fired his VP of Enforcement. It is darn near equivalent to courts convicting a man of a charge where the police department over the investigation was found to violate a multitude of laws in extracting evidence.

I know the NCAA is not the same as the courts but I feel the same spirit of honesty in the process applies. Many guilty men have went free because law enforcement broke trivial laws or simply went past the bounds of the warrant without knowing it.
 

DocCrimson

All-SEC
Jan 3, 2010
1,731
128
82
East TN
It would be near criminal for the NCAA to levy major punishment from findings in an investigation where the NCAA president publicly admonished his investigators and fired his VP of Enforcement. It is darn near equivalent to courts convicting a man of a charge where the police department over the investigation was found to violate a multitude of laws in extracting evidence.

I know the NCAA is not the same as the courts but I feel the same spirit of honesty in the process applies. Many guilty men have went free because law enforcement broke trivial laws or simply went past the bounds of the warrant without knowing it.

My understanding is that even without the additional evidence, the NCAA feels they have a very strong case. And as an outsider who's just been casually watching the allegations etc. for the past few years... I am leaning on the side of UM deserves whatever they get. The whole reason Emmert was furious about the mistakes on the NCAA's part is because the evidence is apparently quite *inappropriate word that means something along the lines of supreme guilt*. If they can make a reasonable case even without the tainted evidence, then they should ready the cannons and come down hard.
 

Jon

Hall of Fame
Feb 22, 2002
15,635
12,545
282
Atlanta 'Burbs
My understanding is that even without the additional evidence, the NCAA feels they have a very strong case. And as an outsider who's just been casually watching the allegations etc. for the past few years... I am leaning on the side of UM deserves whatever they get. The whole reason Emmert was furious about the mistakes on the NCAA's part is because the evidence is apparently quite *inappropriate word that means something along the lines of supreme guilt*. If they can make a reasonable case even without the tainted evidence, then they should ready the cannons and come down hard.
as far as I am concerned the tainted evidence needs to go right into the garbage bin and they need to allow an outside group such as one of the big 4 (5/6?) accounting firms to do an independent review of the legally obtained evidence. If there is something there, fine. If not, let em walk.
 

Ole Man Dan

Hall of Fame
Apr 21, 2008
8,982
3,421
187
Gadsden, Al.
In the Means saga, we were hung out to dry by 'Secret Witnesses who were drunks and liars.
AKA... Tennessee Stud and Phat Phil...
The NCAA will do as they will.
 

CrimsonEyeshade

Hall of Fame
Nov 6, 2007
5,410
1,521
187
Shalala is just posturing and hoping to generate some goodwill on the ground with her woe-is-us-the-victim spiel. It won't work, but given her history it comes as no surprise that she quickly resorted to hot air being spewed publicly. A skeptic would say that is apparently the only tool she has in the toolbox.
And, god forbid, if we ever find ourselves in this position again, many of us would want our president to come out swinging. But since it's Miami, it's only blustering.
 
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TIDE-HSV

Senior Administrator
Staff member
Oct 13, 1999
84,528
39,618
437
Huntsville, AL,USA
Oh I agree. Was outraged for us then and am outraged for them now.

This case, just like ours, proves that the NCAA decides what you are guilty of and then works to find ways to back up their conclusions with evidence. If they can't find evidence they make it up, ignore their rules and move the goal posts. Nothing new here at all other than that they got caught. Investigations should start with evidence and then draw conclusions, theirs start with conclusions and fill in evidence.

I am no fan of Shalala but I am glad she is there. The media loves her. The shenanigans the NCAA pulls needs to be exposed. Because of Donna S it will be.
It may surprise you to learn that this is exactly the method that virtually all police departments follow, all except for the very best...
 

skrayper77

All-American
Sep 4, 2003
3,511
228
182
I'm not surprised. And it's not just the police - DA's have been known to do the same too, to keep their conviction % high. A massive flaw in our judicial system.

Can't blame the NCAA TOO much if we act like we're okay with the American Legal System doing the same thing.

Now, that said - I thought the NCAA had backed off of Miami? I haven't scoped the entire thread yet to see if that was addressed...
 

TIDE-HSV

Senior Administrator
Staff member
Oct 13, 1999
84,528
39,618
437
Huntsville, AL,USA
I'm not surprised. And it's not just the police - DA's have been known to do the same too, to keep their conviction % high. A massive flaw in our judicial system.

Can't blame the NCAA TOO much if we act like we're okay with the American Legal System doing the same thing.

Now, that said - I thought the NCAA had backed off of Miami? I haven't scoped the entire thread yet to see if that was addressed...
They never said they were going to back off. All they announced was that they were going to exclude some of the evidence gathered because it was gathered in cooperation with law enforcement agencies and that there had been improprieties in the way it was gone about. They had an internal investigation, fired some people involved and proceeded with the case. There was speculation that they would have to back off, but that didn't come from the NCAA...
 
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Florida Tom

All-American
Aug 15, 2011
4,449
0
0
Tampa, FL
If Miami gets off with no punishment, then Alabama was treated unfairly and so was USCw. We should get ALL our victories back! Plus at least several $Billion$ from the NCAA for transgressions against UA!!!!!!!

If Miami gets off with no punishment, then anything should be legal and there should be no compliance policies for any University!!!!!!!
I appreciate your point however for me any way, no matter what happens to Miami, or any other school. Alabama was treated unfairly. Never before or since has a school had to go thru such a conspiracy lead by a rival.
 

IH8Orange

Hall of Fame
Aug 14, 2000
7,017
31
0
Trussville, AL, USA
I don't think that there is really a parallel with law enforcement and the NCAA.

In law enforcement, they don't start a case until a crime has been committed, so they already know (in most cases) what the primary charge is going to be and they are usually looking for a suspect or have the suspect in custody, so the fact that the crime is generally known prior to the identification of a suspect decrees that the process of building a case starts with the charges being filed against the defendant and then building the evidence afterward to build the case. Typically, the prosecutor or DA already requires that a reasonable amount of evidence be presented prior to filing charges or signing search and arrest warrants to gather evidence and take the suspect into custody.

The NCAA process typically works from allegations against an institution and then they send in investigators to find evidence of wrongdoing. I guess that they generally don't release details of what violations they are investigating prior to publishing their findings, but I assume that they always know the primary violations that they are investigating because of the allegations which spark an investigation.

My main problem with the NCAA is that there is no oversight and appealing findings through the same organization which produced them is a joke of a process. The NCAA does look for proof of violations, but if they can't find it, they'll just fill in evidentiary blanks with supposition in a pathetic attempt to justify their opinions, which are presented as fact. We've also seen that they don't respect their already insufficient rules if those rules would prevent them from being able to get the "facts" to support their charges.

I'd love to see the NCAA get whacked unmercifully and completely and violently dismantled, but with the well-published history of behavior at "the U", I can't see them being the bellcow of a case for NCAA injustice.
 

PaulD

All-SEC
Dec 29, 2006
1,996
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near Perry, Georgia, United States
The NCAA is a private organization that universities are free to leave at any time (of course, you won't have anyone to play sports with). The rules are set by the members and courts very rarely get involved, except when judges or governors are seeking re-election.

If the membership wants to change the enforcement process, they can vote to do so.
 

bamafaninOhiO

All-American
May 11, 2010
2,114
0
0
Dayton, Ohio
It may surprise you to learn that this is exactly the method that virtually all police departments follow, all except for the very best...
I agree, but the difference is that the NCAA doesnt follow the same standards that law enforcement agencies must. Their enforcement of violations defies the laws of logic, and while im no fan of the Miami Hurricanes, Im glad to see that the NCAA is being made to show their stuff by Ms. Shalala...
 

1958againbear

1st Team
Jan 27, 2011
693
0
0
http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefoo...anes-coaches-want-case-tossed-022113?m_n=true

Courtesy of IBCR

This is turning into a real CF (oops. Sorry mods if I shouldn't use that. Just don't zap me please. I'll take it out) I could never feel sorry for the U; I hate them and the NZAA to the utmost. Emmert should've been gone as soon as he blew the scam/*U fiasco (I guess that horse is so far out of the barn never to be brought back). I'd like to see the NCAA and Miami both ruined. But what's to stop rogue programs like aubrens if the NCAA gets declawed? The boogs are supposedly already under investigation. What happens if Emmert and company start losing all the attacks they're under? Miami deserves to and should get nailed. The boogs have already been emboldened by all they've gotten away with these last few years. If this investigation of them goes bust then there's no stopping them and they'll find another scam to buy. I want to see Emmert get his due but something has to fill the void where the NCAA used to be. Sure I know the NCAA's not going to die right now. But if they get really stymied by the Miami mess and other attacks then look out. It'll just be a free-for-all out there.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
 

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