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ACC presidents (current/future) sign 14-year grant of rights

KrAzY3

KrAzY3

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I don't think this really ends expansion, it just cuts off one avenue. It certainly strengthens the ACC, but it makes the Big 12 look a bit weaker. The Big 12 went from looking doomed, to flirting with FSU and Clemson and openly stating they would take Notre Dame (if possible). So, now that the ACC is off limits, the Big 12 is sitting there with West Virginia and TCU instead of Texas A&M, Colorado, Nebraska, and Missouri, with no good expansion targets.

If the Pac 12 expands again, they'll be looking at the Big 12. If the Big 10 expands again, they'll probably have to look at the Big 12. Same with the SEC. I think you could argue that the Big 12 doesn't have really attractive options at this point (other than their diva, Texas), but if I'm the Big 12 right now I'd be a bit nervous. They're stuck without a conference championship game and not much of a way to improve their situation.

This also raises the value of Notre Dame considerably, in terms of being a full member in a conference. If North Carolina, Virginia, and Virginia Tech are off the table, along with the other ACC schools, adding Notre Dame has to be an extremely attractive expansion target.

The SEC and Big 10 are at 14 teams. The ACC is locked in at 14, with a partial member in Notre Dame, the Pac 12 has 12 teams, and the Big 12 has ten teams. It's hard to imagine that the game of music chairs is completely over.
 
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freefall

freefall

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Crimson1967 said:
Can someone explain exactly what is meant by "granting of rights"?
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IANAL but basically, it means that the schools have signed away their media rights. If a school leaves the conference, that school's media rights remain with the ACC through the end of the GOR term (currently 2026-27), and any money owed the school would instead be distributed to the remaining schools. Given the rumors we've been hearing about what the new ACC TV deal is likely to be worth (>$20M/school/year), anyone switching conferences now would be leaving north of $300M on the table.


KrAzY3 said:
If the Pac 12 expands again, they'll be looking at the Big 12. If the Big 10 expands again, they'll probably have to look at the Big 12.
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Don't forget, the B12 also has a GOR for something like the next 13 years. That's a $250M liability for any B12 school that leaves. And IMO no current B12 school not named "Texas" or "Oklahoma" has a prayer of getting into the B1G.


This also raises the value of Notre Dame considerably, in terms of being a full member in a conference. If North Carolina, Virginia, and Virginia Tech are off the table, along with the other ACC schools, adding Notre Dame has to be an extremely attractive expansion target.
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Given that Notre Dame (a) is in the ACC for all sports but football, (b) has a scheduling agreement with the ACC for 5 football games per year, and (c) just recently announced an extension of their NBC deal through 2025, I'd say that Notre Dame is going to stay exactly where they are for at least the next decade.


It's hard to imagine that the game of music chairs is completely over.
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You're right, I should have added "for now". The big question is what do the 'sips want? I think it depends on how the playoff system evolves. If winning a conference championship game turns out to be really important in the eyes of the selection committee, then I think tu has no choice but to either jump ship or instruct Bowlsby to add enough teams to have a championship game. Given the B12 GOR, the fact that tu wants to be the biggest fish in their pond, and all the political fallout that would result if they tried to leave the lesser B12 schools stranded, I don't see them leaving.


I think you could argue that the Big 12 doesn't have really attractive options at this point (other than their diva, Texas), but if I'm the Big 12 right now I'd be a bit nervous. They're stuck without a conference championship game and not much of a way to improve their situation.
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Exactly. My money is on the B12 adding a few schools (pick 2-4 from: USF, UCF, Cinci, Houston, SMU, boyzee, BYU, Nevada, UNLV, Fresno St.) over the next couple years and then that's more or less it.

At least until the breakaway republic becomes a reality...
 
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C

crimsoncamaro

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always thought it was going to be the acc that was going to implode, not the big 12. good luck to the big 12 trying to get a playoff invite. only 1 big game all year with ou-tx and no ccg. come championship week, the big 12 will be forgotten.
 
BamaFlum

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If your are the commish of the Big 12, what are your options? Who do you go after to solidify your conference and not just pick Sisters of the Poor to get a championship game.
 
TideEngineer08

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BamaFlum said:
If your are the commish of the Big 12, what are your options? Who do you go after to solidify your conference and not just pick Sisters of the Poor to get a championship game.
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Their only options for expansion, IMO, are BYU and perhaps USF or Cincinnati.

BYU because they are a reputable sports university that will compete well with the conference. USF because they play in a pro stadium and possibly open up some Florida recruiting avenues, and Cincinnati because they might open up Ohio recruiting avenues.

Those aren't great options, but IMO, the options fall off drastically after that. The Big 12 is the biggest loser in all of this realignment (I don't count the Big East because they were a loser to begin with), and frankly, it looks to me like Texas A&M is the biggest winner.
 
freefall

freefall

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BamaFlum said:
If your are the commish of the Big 12, what are your options? Who do you go after to solidify your conference and not just pick Sisters of the Poor to get a championship game.
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My thought process:

1. ACC teams are out, thanks to the new GOR.
2. B1G teams are out because no one's going to trade stability & money for the opportunity to get screwed by the 'sips.
3. SEC teams are out, except maybe Arkansas. I think the Hogs would consider an offer, given that they're far more likely to see the playoffs as a B12 team than as an SEC team. But I think the odds of them voluntarily leaving the SEC are very, very remote.
4. Doubtful that I could lure any P12 schools; Colorado's not coming back, and none of the rest would leave voluntarily (see #2).
5. Notre Dame would seem to be off the table, given that they've found a home for their non-revenue sports and re-upped their NBC deal...
6. ...but BYU is a poor man's Notre Dame, if I could find a way to accommodate their special requirements.
7. I'd really like to get into Florida, so I'd push hard for one of USF or UCF. I might even take a buy-one-get-one-free deal.
8. Cinci is intriguing since it gets me into the Ohio market, and it would give the hillbillies someone local to play with.
9. Fresno State is also interesting, and gets me into CA. Logistical nightmare though.
10. USAFA: Who doesn't love a service academy?
10. Houston or SMU are available. But what value does another Texas school (or two) really add?
10. No matter what happens, I won't have to go stag as long as boyzee is still around. She might not be my first choice for a date but at least I know she'll say yes!
10. If I squint really hard, Nevada/UNLV look interesting for similar reasons to USF/UCF (population growth). Besides, who doesn't want an excuse to go to Vegas a few times a year?!
10. If all else fails, Uconn is pretty desperate.
 
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Redwood Forrest

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freefall said:
My thought process:

1. ACC teams are out, thanks to the new GOR.
2. B1G teams are out because no one's going to trade stability & money for the opportunity to get screwed by the 'sips.
3. SEC teams are out, except maybe Arkansas. I think the Hogs would consider an offer, given that they're far more likely to see the playoffs as a B12 team than as an SEC team. But I think the odds of them voluntarily leaving the SEC are very, very remote.
4. Doubtful that I could lure any P12 schools; Colorado's not coming back, and none of the rest would leave voluntarily (see #2).
5. Notre Dame would seem to be off the table, given that they've found a home for their non-revenue sports and re-upped their NBC deal...
6. ...but BYU is a poor man's Notre Dame, if I could find a way to accommodate their special requirements.
7. I'd really like to get into Florida, so I'd push hard for one of USF or UCF. I might even take a buy-one-get-one-free deal.
8. Cinci is intriguing since it gets me into the Ohio market, and it would give the hillbillies someone local to play with.
9. Fresno State is also interesting, and gets me into CA. Logistical nightmare though.
10. USAFA: Who doesn't love a service academy?
10. Houston or SMU are available. But what value does another Texas school (or two) really add?
10. No matter what happens, I won't have to go stag as long as boyzee is still around. She might not be my first choice for a date but at least I know she'll say yes!
10. If I squint really hard, Nevada/UNLV look interesting for similar reasons to USF/UCF (population growth). Besides, who doesn't want an excuse to go to Vegas a few times a year?!
10. If all else fails, Uconn is pretty desperate.
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Our thoughts are about the same. I would go with Cincy and UCONN simply to give W Va someone in the neighborhood. I really doesn't matter anyway as Texas and Oklahoma are the big cheese.
 
BamaFlum

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SMU and Houston would only become options if the Big Tex conference were forced into a championship game and no other schools would come.
 
Crimson1967

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So if an ACC team were to join the SEC before 2027, their share of the SEC TV money would go to the ACC's coffers?
 
freefall

freefall

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Crimson1967 said:
So if an ACC team were to join the SEC before 2027, their share of the SEC TV money would go to the ACC's coffers?
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[ Disclaimer: IANAL ]

In general, yes, although it's not quite accurate to call it "their share of the SEC TV money". The GOR means that the ACC now owns the media rights for ACC schools, not the schools themselves. So when the ACC sells those rights to someone like ESPN, it's the conference that gets the money and in turn distributes it to the member schools. If a school leaves, the conference still gets paid by ESPN, but it takes the money that would have gone to the now-departed school and distributes it to the remaining schools instead -- through the end of the GOR term, which is currently 2026-27.

Think of it as college football's version of a poison pill -- the school & its new conference would have to be willing to eat that revenue loss (which could total hundreds of millions of dollars) if they really wanted to make the change.
 
KrAzY3

KrAzY3

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I forgot about the deal that the Big 12 schools signed, concerning rights, but one thing to point out is that these haven't really been tested in court and I haven't thoroughly looked at each to see exact wording.

There are probably some loopholes in there, and if you consider the buyouts schools have paid so far, teams have found ways around paying them in full most of the time. Even the past deal the ACC had was supposed to keep schools from leaving, and it didn't. So, I imagine we'll see these deals tested in some manner down the road, even if it's just a member school claiming that the conference didn't meet their end of the agreement.

Anyway, as I see it the Big 12 isn't going to expand to 12. My understanding was that the Big 12 (which I guess means Oklahoma and Texas) didn't like their championship game due to the fact that it put an extra challenge in their way. I'm not even sure how the revenue for that goes, since the Big 12 doesn't share equally, but I imagine the non-contenders liked the game, since it meant more revenue.

The Big 12 is just in bad shape, period. The Longhorn network basically prohibits a Big 12 network, so while the SEC, Pac 12 and Big 10 have theirs, the Big 12 just sits there looking at Texas take in 10 million a year. The championship game doesn't seem realistic, given that their potential expansion targets are out of reach, and only BCS conference rejects are available.

The moral of the story is that the SEC, Big 10 and PAC 12 have really pulled away, and the ACC and Big 12 have to coerce their programs into staying.
 
freefall

freefall

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KrAzY3 said:
Anyway, as I see it the Big 12 isn't going to expand to 12.
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I think that depends on how the selection committee works and what standards they choose to apply when picking the 4 playoff teams. If it turns out that winning your conference championship game is a big factor then I think the B12 may be forced to add enough teams to have a championship game whether they like it or not -- it will only take one year where tu or OU gets left out in favor of the winner of the P12 or ACC championship games (or worse, ND) for the B12 to change its tune, IMO. Of course, this cuts both ways... they day a 1-loss SEC champ not named Auburn gets left out of the playoffs in favor of an undefeated tu/OU, I expect the SEC's wrath will be terrible and their retribution swift. :D
 
KrAzY3

KrAzY3

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freefall said:
I think that depends on how the selection committee works and what standards they choose to apply when picking the 4 playoff teams. If it turns out that winning your conference championship game is a big factor then I think the B12 may be forced to add enough teams to have a championship game whether they like it or not
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Right after I posted, I was thinking about the flaws in strength of schedule rankings. The primary flaw is that it does not factor in how many games are played. This means the computer doesn't care if there are 10, or 14 games played. They are only calculating a percentage based score.

I have seen indications that the committee would use conference champion (not championship game) and SoS as factors. The fact that every single cupcake conference gets a seat, all but insures that conference championship game will not truly be considered. Logically, of course it makes sense that a team isn't penalized for playing an additional tough game, but that's how it is all but certain to play out. You lose, you not only take a major hit to your ranking, but you lose a "tie breaker" by not being conference champion.

The Big 12 appeared to be siding with the SEC in the no conference champions argument, but, after the SEC solidified the Big 12 with their bowl deal, the Big 12 reversed course and decided they were ok with the criteria. One could argue this was after assurances that is it was conference champion, not conference championship.

The SEC is at a disadvantage, due to the likelihood of the game being a play out, rather than play in game. The Big 12, their product will suck, but despite the reality of playing a weaker schedule by having no conference championship game, the computers won't see it that way.
 
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