Just 23 of 228 ADs at NCAA DI public schools broke even in 2012

CapstoneGrad06

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It seems the issue of a subsidy is being thrown in the face of several SEC programs. I'm not sure of the specifics, but I do know that for the roughly $5 million in subsidies that the UA athletic department receives an equal amount of money is poured back to the University for faculty and licensing. I don't believe that even begins to touch the amount of money placed in the general scholarship fund.
 

Crimson1967

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What exactly is this subsidy the athletic department gets from the university? Does it come from the general fund or is it from a set student fee? (Such as $X per semester hour). If the AD is making money, why do they get the subsidy to begin with?
 

CmdrThor

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What exactly is this subsidy the athletic department gets from the university? Does it come from the general fund or is it from a set student fee? (Such as $X per semester hour). If the AD is making money, why do they get the subsidy to begin with?
Alabama's program received nearly $5.5 million in institutional funds in 2012, up from more than $5.2 million in 2011. It reported sending nearly $4.4 million of an $16.7 million total surplus back to the university — $1 million for faculty support and nearly $3.4 million in licensing money. .University spokeswoman Cathy Andreen said in an e-mail: "...the University continues to provide institutional support for Athletics, (because) UA believes that Title IX sports are important and we invest in them to ensure their ongoing success — as demonstrated by our softball, gymnastics and women's golf national championships" won during the 2011-12 school year.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/college/2013/05/07/ncaa-finances-subsidies/2142443/

I would guess the subsidy guarantees the budgets for the Title IX sports. If for some reason the AD didn't make as much money one year, there would still be money for those supports supplied by the University. In most years, a lot of that money gets sent back to the University.
 

AlistarWills

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And just where would that "pay the athlete" money come from? It turns into more subsidy money from the school (i.e. other students) to come up with a stipend for the athletes. I realize many athletes come from bad situations and can barely afford anything that the school doesn't provide them. Somehow I don't see this going over well with the tuition paying students. Asking them to pay more so another student can have extra spending money. (Boy, there's a political rant just wating on this one....)
 

KrAzY3

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And just where would that "pay the athlete" money come from? It turns into more subsidy money from the school (i.e. other students) to come up with a stipend for the athletes. I realize many athletes come from bad situations and can barely afford anything that the school doesn't provide them. Somehow I don't see this going over well with the tuition paying students. Asking them to pay more so another student can have extra spending money. (Boy, there's a political rant just wating on this one....)
To be clear, the "paying athletes" talk is not really that. It is about giving the scholarship athletes the same deal that the scholarship academics get. This is rarely brought up, because it changes the whole dynamic of the the discussion. For instance, what would the students think if the athletes get the same scholarships as the academics? Umm, probably not much, eh?

That's why some (such as Slive) refer to it as a full cost scholarship. It's not there to just say oh hey here's a bunch of money because you're a jock! No, not at all. It's there to say ok, this is what we used to (yes, athletes in the past got this) give you, and what we think other students on scholarship should be entitled to, to insure your needs are met. That is all it is.

If you can't afford that for football? You should rethink having a football program.
 

TIDE-HSV

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To be clear, the "paying athletes" talk is not really that. It is about giving the scholarship athletes the same deal that the scholarship academics get. This is rarely brought up, because it changes the whole dynamic of the the discussion. For instance, what would the students think if the athletes get the same scholarships as the academics? Umm, probably not much, eh?

That's why some (such as Slive) refer to it as a full cost scholarship. It's not there to just say oh hey here's a bunch of money because you're a jock! No, not at all. It's there to say ok, this is what we used to (yes, athletes in the past got this) give you, and what we think other students on scholarship should be entitled to, to insure your needs are met. That is all it is.

If you can't afford that for football? You should rethink having a football program.
Do you have a case on case comparison between academic and athletic scholarships? I've received academic scholarships. They were not as generous as the athletic scholarships, by any measure, and I didn't know anyone else whose were. The only exception would be fellowships which involved teaching duties, which are a different animal altogether...
 

KrAzY3

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Do you have a case on case comparison between academic and athletic scholarships? I've received academic scholarships. They were not as generous as the athletic scholarships, by any measure, and I didn't know anyone else whose were. The only exception would be fellowships which involved teaching duties, which are a different animal altogether...
No, but my understanding is that "full ride" academic scholarships can provide stipends that the athletic scholarships no longer can provide (but did in the past). I suppose I should have been more specific, in that I know there are partial academic scholarships and so on, but from what I've read, the talk is about making stipends available to athletes that both were available in the past, and remain available to non-athletes (which might very well be an exclusive club).

It would take a bit of research to get exact info, as I'm going off of what I recall reading/hearing.
 

CharminTide

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No, but my understanding is that "full ride" academic scholarships can provide stipends that the athletic scholarships no longer can provide (but did in the past). I suppose I should have been more specific, in that I know there are partial academic scholarships and so on, but from what I've read, the talk is about making stipends available to athletes that both were available in the past, and remain available to non-athletes (which might very well be an exclusive club).

It would take a bit of research to get exact info, as I'm going off of what I recall reading/hearing.
I had a full academic scholarship at UA, and it did include a research stipend that I could either use or leave on the table during my 4 years. But it could only be applied to very specific circumstances that needed to be cleared by the administration before I ever got the money. It's not as if I was free to use it on food or clothing or anything else I desired. FWIW.
 

TIDE-HSV

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No, but my understanding is that "full ride" academic scholarships can provide stipends that the athletic scholarships no longer can provide (but did in the past). I suppose I should have been more specific, in that I know there are partial academic scholarships and so on, but from what I've read, the talk is about making stipends available to athletes that both were available in the past, and remain available to non-athletes (which might very well be an exclusive club).

It would take a bit of research to get exact info, as I'm going off of what I recall reading/hearing.
I also haven't researched the difference in the scholarships. One problem is that what may be paid for an athletic scholarship is defined by the NCAA. It's all tuition, books, lodging, of course all medical, and a couple of thousand or so spending money per semester, all this being subject to change from my last memory. Over the period of an athlete's career, that is an enormous amount. I remember very few academic schollies, which are usually framed as block grants per semester, as coming anywhere close to the value of an athletic scholarship. For example, I never ever heard of anyone on an academic scholly having all medical expenses being guaranteed. Think about the dollar value of that in today's insurance market. As I said, I may be wrong, but I'd have to see actual facts to convince me that academic schollies are worth more than athletic, unless we get into the rariefied air of research fellowships and the like...
 

KrAzY3

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This will take up a lot of time to really delve into the issue further, but what your thoughts on stipends for grad students? It is my understanding that they're basically paying the students to go to school at that point (and I've read that it can be enough for an entire family to live off of).
 

crimsonaudio

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If you can't afford that for football? You should rethink having a football program.
I suspect you'd feel differently if you saw the impact it would (potentially) mean to many schools. Sure, we could swing it, but there are a lot of quality programs that are just scraping by who might decide it wasn't worth the expense. I'm fine with crappy teams dropping out of D1, but don't want to cut off our collective noses to spite our faces...
 

KrAzY3

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I'm fine with crappy teams dropping out of D1, but don't want to cut off our collective noses to spite our faces...
To be clear here, stipends would not be mandatory, they would be optional. It is also my understanding that both the Big 10 and SEC are on board with them, so I wouldn't think any schools from either of them would want to close up shop. Troy? UAB? South Alabama? One can only hope...

Part of the problem here though is that some programs exist, basically as wanna bes, and they spend recklessly. They could exist as a FBS program, but only if they learn to behave responsible. We shouldn't limit Alabama for the sake of someone that wants to emulate Alabama but lacks the merit.

The reason this is being blocked is simple. The FBS teams, which arrive on a yearly basis thanks to the 85 scholarship limit, are basically holding down the student athletes so that they can pretend they are on equal standings with Alabama. If you have stipends, Alabama can offer them, the SEC and Big 10 can offer them, and the Sun Belt? C-USA? Etc... they won't, and the athletes of course will follow the stipends. That's the reason they got rid of them in the first place, for the sake of the nobodies, so they can pretend to be equals even though they never earned that right.
 
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Crimson1967

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The top recruits already go to Alabama, Texas, Michigan, etc. even without stipends.
 

KrAzY3

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The top recruits already go to Alabama, Texas, Michigan, etc. even without stipends.
I'm not arguing for stipends as a recruiting tool. I'm arguing for them because it's ridiculious for the NCAA to step in and say, something that has been available for athletes in the past, and is available for academic students in some cases, should not be available for athletes. If the Big 10 and SEC want to offer "full cost" scholarships, that is their right, and given the millions these athletes have helped them earn, it's certainly not overcompensation.

Having said that, the bulk of classes for most schools are not "top recruits". You have well over 100 colleges, each can sign 25. You are going to have a couple thousand recruits that sign. The impact wouldn't be that monumental, it just means for instance that South Florida probably wouldn't be signing any more 4 star kids, neither would Marshall, Boise St., Tulsa, etc...
 

ColumbusTide

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I'm not arguing for stipends as a recruiting tool. I'm arguing for them because it's ridiculious for the NCAA to step in and say, something that has been available for athletes in the past, and is available for academic students in some cases, should not be available for athletes. If the Big 10 and SEC want to offer "full cost" scholarships, that is their right, and given the millions these athletes have helped them earn, it's certainly not overcompensation.

Having said that, the bulk of classes for most schools are not "top recruits". You have well over 100 colleges, each can sign 25. You are going to have a couple thousand recruits that sign. The impact wouldn't be that monumental, it just means for instance that South Florida probably wouldn't be signing any more 4 star kids, neither would Marshall, Boise St., Tulsa, etc...
I too was on academic scholarship at Bama. I received tuition, book, fees, and a room and board allowance in the form of a combination of a stipend and a meal card. The biggest difference though between that scholarship and the ones they are giving athletes now however is that I could also have a job. I was a tutor for the on campus tutoring program and could earn extra money there. The vast majority of scholarship athletes simply do not have time to work and many are not allowed to do so during the school year. They should be paid for that opportunity cost in the form of a full cost scholarship and it should not be optional.
 

KrAzY3

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I too was on academic scholarship at Bama. I received tuition, book, fees, and a room and board allowance in the form of a combination of a stipend and a meal card. The biggest difference though between that scholarship and the ones they are giving athletes now however is that I could also have a job. I was a tutor for the on campus tutoring program and could earn extra money there. The vast majority of scholarship athletes simply do not have time to work and many are not allowed to do so during the school year. They should be paid for that opportunity cost in the form of a full cost scholarship and it should not be optional.
I think a lot of people are not seeing the full picture. I've seen a lot of, "when I was a student" type of stuff, but it is apples to oranges.

To be on football scholarship, the athlete has to both meet academic requirements, and the requirements of being a football player. Some people seem to be oblivious to that. The retort I'd make to some, is that when they were going to college, they didn't have to participate in football practice, and watch film, and all of those other things. The idea of well, when I did something that a significant percentage of the population can do, I didn't get treated like I did something only a tiny percentage of the population can do, sounds out of touch. Mind you, I'm not speaking for everyone, or belittling anyone, because I'm sure there are many people here who kept their grades up while working through college, etc... I'm just saying I don't think it is easy to imagine what it's like to be a FBS student athlete, which is quite difficult (as the high rate of attrition attests to that).

So, we take these student athletes and we place on them the burdens of a student, and on top of that the burdens of a high level athlete in a rigorous sport. That alone mean we can't try to compare what some kid who doesn't have to do any of that's college experience is like.

Then, on top of that, as you pointed out, the student athletes have these other rigors placed upon them. For instance, they can't get scholarships for other reasons, they can't get grad student stipends from what I understand, they are extremely limited in terms of their activities. I mean, imagine any of you, as a student, not being able to go to a BBQ because that's an improper benefit. Not being able to hop on a golf cart because that's an improper benefit. These are actual infractions I'm talking about. The player has extremely limited options in terms of what they can do, and these are burdens placed upon them specifically because they are student athletes.

ColumbusTide nailed it, in that it is entirely unreasonable to place all these demands on the athletes, and not insure all needs are met. We say, we expect you to not take any handouts from anyone, we say we expect you to give us your time as both a student and athlete, we say we expect you to perform. At the end of the day, it isn't too much to say ok fine, you get what grad students get, you get what was available before the NCAA blocked it. We'll ensure that you get full cost of living, since we darn sure won't let you get it from anyone else.
 
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CajunCrimson

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Texas spends $135million ..... Geez......someone needs to clip a few more coupons and maybe consider the dollar menu on road trips.
 

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