News Article: Which Dynasty Is More Impressive - Alabama Or Nebraska?

snake plissken

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Why so hung up on dubbing 95 UF as SOS's "best team"? Did you check with him? I'd bet he might think his 96 team was his best, they outscored his 95 team 611 to 558 and allowed less points 221 to 263, plus they also won the NC by drubbing FSU 52-20.

And as far as beating the best of the SEC to win their championships, well so did Bama. They had to just to get TO the NCG. Well, except for when they SHUT OUT the SEC champs 21-0 in the NC game. The other two years all they did was hand 13-0 Texas their first loss and 12-0 ND their first loss. BTW, to get to 13-0 Texas they also had to go through an undefeated Florida team in Tebow's senior year.

One more thing, in Bama's 3 NC games, against 3 previously undefeated teams, Bama had a run of 69 points scored without allowing ANY to be scored against them. Did the Huskers do anything like that?
The only undefeated regular season Spurrier ever had was his 1995 team. They would have won the championship that year if they didn't play Nebraska. The 1996 team lost to FSU in the regular season and was ran over by Warrick Dunn. The only reason thay won the championship that year is because they got a do over in the Sugar Bowl. That is why I say 1995 is Spurrier's best team.

Lets be honest about the teams Bama played for the Championships. Only one was a truly great team, and that was LSU. Texas should not have been in the first game, because they should have lost the BIG 12 Championship game. The refs blew the call and let Texas have one more shot at a field goal. Notre Dame was nothing but a poser. They should have lost 2-3 games during the season. Pittsburgh had them cold, but gave it away at the end.

Nebraska beat Miami during the end of their powerhouse days to win it in 94. They beat one of Florida's best teams led by Heisman winner Wuerfel to win it in 95. Then they beat Tennessee led by Manning (who should have won the Heisman) to win it in 97. All three of those Nebraska teams were undefeated. Bama lost home games in back to back seasons during this current run.

Again, I am not trying to demean this spectacular run that Bama is on currently. I am just defending my argument that I think Nebraska had the better dynasty at this time. The OP asked the question, and this is my opinion. I try to take off my crimson colored glasses and look at things objectively every once in a while. IMO Nebraska had the better run going undefeated in all 3 seasons and playing better competition in the Championship games.
 

snake plissken

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Wins another, you'll be on board? So Bama has to win more? Why? Bama has played tougher opponents higher ranking than NU in a way tougher league and we have to win more. Bama has matched NU and then some.
Because we are tied with Nebraska winning 3 out of 4 and I think Nebraska has the better resume. When Bama wins one more, we will trump them winning 4 out of 5.

What is it with this tougher opponents and tougher league argument? Nebraska went undefeated during their 3 championships. Who could you put on their schedule that would have beat them? They were mauling everyone. Then when they played the best of the best in the championship games, they mauled them too.
 
Because we are tied with Nebraska winning 3 out of 4 and I think Nebraska has the better resume. When Bama wins one more, we will trump them winning 4 out of 5.

What is it with this tougher opponents and tougher league argument? Nebraska went undefeated during their 3 championships. Who could you put on their schedule that would have beat them? They were mauling everyone. Then when they played the best of the best in the championship games, they mauled them too.
So I guess all of Bama's games came down to the wire. Sad... Also by your logic Notre Dame's championships were the best of all time. Nebraska's 3 all weren't outright only 2 of three were. All of Bama's were outright.
 

snake plissken

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So I guess all of Bama's games came down to the wire. Sad... Also by your logic Notre Dame's championships were the best of all time. Nebraska's 3 all weren't outright only 2 of three were. All of Bama's were outright.
Not sure about Notre Dame, was not around at the time. I am only comparing what I have seen. Had the BCS system been in place in 1997, Nebraska would have beat Michigan and had their 3rd outright. Systems were different back then.


Lets cut to the chase. Take the best team from each dynasty and let them play in a neutral site bowl game with a month to prepare. So match up the 95 Nebraska team with either the 09,11, or 12 Bama team. Honestly, who do you think would win that game? Really, I would also take the 94 and 97 Nebraska teams. What has Bama had trouble with, running quarterbacks. I believe Frazier was better than Teabag, Newton or Manzeil (sp?) and all three beat Bama. Scott Frost was not that far behind either.
 
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TommyMac

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Not sure about Notre Dame, was not around at the time. I am only comparing what I have seen. Had the BCS system been in place in 1997, Nebraska would have beat Michigan and had their 3rd outright. Systems were different back then.


Lets cut to the chase. Take the best team from each dynasty and let them play in a neutral site bowl game with a month to prepare. So match up the 95 Nebraska team with either the 09,11, or 12 Bama team. Honestly, who do you think would win that game? Really, I would also take the 94 and 97 Nebraska teams. What has Bama had trouble with, running quarterbacks. I believe Frazier was better than Teabag, Newton or Manzeil (sp?) and all three beat Bama. Scott Frost was not that far behind either.



I firmly believe all 3 Bama teams would beat that 95 Husker team, especially the 11 team. That 11 D would have shut their O down. Evidently you didn't recognize just how dominant that defense was. What they did against LSU in the CG was incredible and they did it against one of those mobile QBs you and everyone else like to say we have so much trouble with. Jefferson wasn't as good a runner as Frazier, but he was a better passer and we flat shut him down. That night Bama put on a clinic in defensive football and did it against a team that some were touting as arguably the GOAT. We dispelled thatline of thinking, but they were damn good nonetheless.

As for Frazier against $cam, Tebow and JF. that's ridiculous. $cam is bigger, stronger and faster than Frazier and is light years ahrad of him throwing the ball. Tebow is close, but at least he's had SOME success in the NFL, Frazier bombed out of the CFL as I remember. JF, his one year tops any of TF's years in college and I'd bet he will have more success in the NFL too.

BTW, since you place so much emphasis on NU beating UF in the CG, perhaps you should throw a little credit Spurriers way, his dogged determination to not protect Danny better led to the huge disparity in the score. Instead of giving him some TEs for blocking help he insisated on going with max receivers most of the night leaving Danny practically on his own.
 
Not sure about Notre Dame, was not around at the time. I am only comparing what I have seen. Had the BCS system been in place in 1997, Nebraska would have beat Michigan and had their 3rd outright. Systems were different back then.


Lets cut to the chase. Take the best team from each dynasty and let them play in a neutral site bowl game with a month to prepare. So match up the 95 Nebraska team with either the 09,11, or 12 Bama team. Honestly, who do you think would win that game? Really, I would also take the 94 and 97 Nebraska teams. What has Bama had trouble with, running quarterbacks. I believe Frazier was better than Teabag, Newton or Manzeil (sp?) and all three beat Bama. Scott Frost was not that far behind either.
...
 
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selmaborntidefan

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Snake,

First of all, I sincerely thank you for the interaction. I actually appreciate the dissent as to where it may show flaws in the argument. That said, your opening comments here are problematic.


To answer your above question, no. Comparing undefeated Utah, Hawaii, Boise State and Marshall to Nebraska's undefeated teams is not even close.
So what you're saying is this - the schedule DOES matter.

That 95' Nebraska team may have played a weaker schedule,
There ain't no "may" about it. Their 1995 schedule was MUCH weaker than the 2009 Alabama schedule.

but they obliterated one of the best SEC teams ever.
I would question whether this is correct or not. Was Florida very good? No doubt. Is it possible the 1995 Huskers were the best team ever? Yes.

That doesn't necessarily translate into "the three in four by Nebraska" was more impressive, though.

And that was not a case of Florida over looking Nebraska like Bama vs Utah or Florida vs Louisville.
True enough.

Teams don't make their schedule, they play the schedule that is handed to them years in advance.
They schedule the OOC games. Even if it's years in advance, Pacific is known to be no good. And obviously Nebraska cannot help the Big Eight being weak or the fact Michigan St was on probation or that ASU wasn't quite so good in 1995.


They just have to handle their business and make the most of it. The 95' Nebraska team may not have had as tough of a schedule, but they did what they needed to do and destroyed every team by more than 30 points (going by memory here). Then they killed Steve Spurrier's best team by 35 points. Don't forget that Florida team went through the SEC that year and blew up everyone.

1) As I noted earlier, the SEC was not all that good in 1995. Florida played THREE teams in the SEC with eight wins - they destroyed Tennessee, but they beat probation-riddled Ole Miss AT HOME by 18 (Alabama beat Ole Miss ON THE ROAD that year by 14, and we weren't exactly a great team in 1995) and they beat Auburn by 11 and blew out an overrated Arkansas team.

2) You're real close on the notion of Nebraska beating everyone by thirty - they beat 3-8 Wazzu by 14, K-State by 24 and CU by 23 - otherwise they blew everyone away.

In my opinion, all the great teams had long home game winning streaks.
Boise State won 65 games in a row at home in the regular season and were 50-3. Using this line of reasoning, Boise State is the greatest college football dynasty ever assembled. They were 50-3 (compared to Nebraska's 50-2 in four years). This is why I think the argument is more composite than individual points.


Look at Miami in the 80s, they had something like a 50+ game streak or some of Bryant's teams from the 70s.
Miami won 58 in a row. (And now I'm about to get hit with baseball bats). The BDS streak of 57 games was quite impressive - note, however, that Alabama lost a number of games at Legion Field ("the other home") during that same streak.

I just don't think scheduling is an excuse to lose home games when you are talking about best dynasties ever. I think you are being held to a higher standard. Just my opinion.
But noting that one team played a tougher schedule AND played 14 of those games against rested opponents is quite relevant is it not?

Again, if it isn't then Boise State is just as great as the 1990s Nebraska teams - and everyone outside of Boise thinks that is absurd.


Let me ask you, do you think our 2011 or 2012 team would have beat that 95' Nebraska team?
Let's say - for the sake of argument - neither could. But could two of our other champs beat their other two? I think so. But let me address whether 2011 or 2012 could beat Nebraska 1995.

Now I think they could, and I'll tell you why: Nebraska rushed for 524 yards against Florida. Tommie Frazier's average line for a game was 7 for 12 for 104 yards. Do you SERIOUSLY think Nebraska would have rushed for that - or even HALF of that against the 2011 or 2012 defense? Frazier was basically Dennard Robinson.

AVG GAME
Tommie Frazier, 1995: 7 for 12, 104 yards
Dennard Robinson, 2012: 6 for 12, 101 yards

Now, Nebraska 1995 would obviously have done better than Michigan did because they did have Lawrence Phillipps and a very good defense. College football has always been (as Coach Stallings said) run the ball, stop the run, win the turnover battle. But there is simply no way that Nebraska team would have rushed for those yards on the 2012 defense.

Florida's 1995 defense gave up over 20 ppg - not a great defense by any stretch of the imagination. Granted, Nebraska deserves credit for putting 62 points on them although the defense was responsible for ten of those points for Nebraska (a safety and a pick for TD plus PAT).

Let me reiterate: this is a tough subject because when taking a position one is automatically presumed to be dissing the other guy. Those were great Nebraska teams but the fact remains that people actually recall FSU's dominance more so than NU's.



Do you recall how that one turned out last September?
 
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selmaborntidefan

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Not sure about Notre Dame, was not around at the time. I am only comparing what I have seen. Had the BCS system been in place in 1997, Nebraska would have beat Michigan and had their 3rd outright. Systems were different back then.
Gee, where have I heard THAT argument before?

Oh yeah, Alabama has no chance against Miami because they're one-dimensional.

Penn State can't beat Miami (1986).
Ohio State will be lucky to keep it close (2002).
Florida shouldn't be in the game (2006)

Lets cut to the chase. Take the best team from each dynasty and let them play in a neutral site bowl game with a month to prepare.
But the argument is over the TOTAL SUM here, not the individual parts. I concede the 95 Nebraska team MIGHT be the best of the six teams.


So match up the 95 Nebraska team with either the 09,11, or 12 Bama team. Honestly, who do you think would win that game?
Well given the fact Frazier, as I documented, was Dennard Robinson, I'm gonna have to say Alabama. Not by a 41-14 count because Nebraska had Phillipps and a better defense.

Really, I would also take the 94 and 97 Nebraska teams.
Fair enough.

What has Bama had trouble with, running quarterbacks.
Uh, no. You have the wrong half of a half-truth.

Alabama has had trouble with running QBs WHO COULD ACTUALLY PASS THE BALL!!!!

Frazier ain't no Manziel, he ain't no Tebow, and he ain't no Cam Newton, either.


PASSING TOTALS
Tebow (2008): 216 yards
Tebow (2009): 254 yards (we won)
Newton (2010): 216 yards
Manziel (2012): 253 yards



Tommie Frazier passed for less than HALF of that.


I believe Frazier was better than Teabag, Newton or Manzeil (sp?) and all three beat Bama. Scott Frost was not that far behind either.

Tommie Frazier wasn't even the best QB on his team; they tore through 1994 with Brook Berringer starting on 9/24 until the last half of the Miami game.
 

NationalTitles18

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What is it with this tougher opponents and tougher league argument? Nebraska went undefeated during their 3 championships. Who could you put on their schedule that would have beat them? They were mauling everyone. Then when they played the best of the best in the championship games, they mauled them too.
Because the tougher opponents argument directly contradicts and demeans your argument that Nebraska was better for going undefeated and mauling everyone along the way. Would Alabama have lost to LSU in 2011 if not for multiple injuries and fatigue from a grueling schedule? Would Alabama have lost to aTm in 2012 if not for the same and coming off an emotionally and physically draining game against LSU? I dare say if everyone else on Bama's schedule those years was a cupcake other than the teams the Tide lost to then Alabama does not lose a game either season. Conversely, give Nebraska the same schedules and my best guess is they loose more than just 2 games. SOS matters when comparing teams against each other if they haven't gone head to head. It puts the wins and losses in context better than any other measure for comparison. Hopefully there's no argument after this year, even though I don't understand your position that SOS doesn't matter. I think we'd all be happy to put the argument to rest by season's end.
 

selmaborntidefan

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There is a Bleacher Report article that actually purports to make the Nebraska argument. Because it is not like most BR articles, I'm going to take it apart just a bit. You can read the front page here:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...bornes-dynasty-still-greater-than-nick-sabans

In the Omaha World-Herald, Dirk Chatelain did a great deal of statistical heavy lifting to compare the two runs, and most of the numbers here come from his outstanding work.

Now I won't make fun of Dirk here since I'm doing the same thing, but let's compare the arguments.

Here's his case for Alabama:

1) He cites the number of All-Americans and Heisman winners in favor of us
2) Stronger conference
3) Undisputed champions (two of Nebraska's were debatable)


His case for Nebraska:
1) Tide only one perfect season, Nebraska three
2) He actually tries to say the SOS is similar - read this nonsense:


Sure, Alabama has navigated the SEC to win its titles, a conference tougher than what Nebraska faced. But Nebraska’s strength of schedule over that period favors comparably to Alabama’s. Nebraska beat 10 teams ranked in the Top 10 and 17 teams ranked in the Top 25 compared to Alabama’s 12 and 19, respectively.

(How in the world does Nebraska get SoS when even in this count they have FEWER wins against ranked opponents?)

3) Nebraska was awesome in 1995
In that year, the Cornhuskers beat four top-10 teams by an average of 30.75 (!) points. Nebraska never scored fewer than 35 points in a game and its smallest margin of victory was by two touchdowns.

In Alabama’s only perfect-season title year (2009), the Crimson Tide had a two-point win at home over a Tennessee team that finished the year 7-6, a five-point win over Auburn and a BCS title game win over a Texas team that lost quarterback Colt McCoy on its first possession and never really recovered.


[Response: but you're going to play CLOSER GAMES when you play a TOUGHER SCHEDULE. Point he didn't bother to mention: Alabama played eight straight weeks and were playing a rested Vols team that had a week off - and this was a rivalry game. Should I point out OU was serving severe sanctions in 1995?]



Here's his conclusion:

But based on the evidence at hand, it’s hard not to give the nod to the mid-90s Nebraska teams. Playing a schedule at least roughly equivalent to each other, Nebraska had three perfect seasons, lost three fewer games and produced a season in 1995 which could be argued to be the most dominant single-season performance in the history of college football.



But as I noted - these schedules were not even in the same solar system as each other. He says NOTHING about off week games (keep in mind THREE of our FIVE losses game in a stretch where we played seven opponents with an extra week).
 

selmaborntidefan

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There's also this article:

http://www.cornnation.com/2013/1/25...ties-nebraska-vs-alabama-huskers-crimson-tide

He conveniently slips in 1993 so as to saddle Alabama with an extra loss. This also enables him to count FSU's rather tough 1993 schedule in his analysis (along with their loss to Notre Dame).

But it is his analysis that I question:

Here are his points:
1) Average opponent scoring by season end
2) Average opponent's scoring by opponents
3) Average margin of victory

But here's the simple problem:
1) When your schedule is softer, you're going to win by more points - usually (this is a no brainer)
2) When you run up scores (as Nebraska often did) and Alabama doesn't, you're going to have a higher MOV.
 

txag70

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Alabama - and I don't see any real questions. Nebraska did not face anywhere near the difficulty in opponents during their runs
 

selmaborntidefan

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Ladies and gentlemen,

This issue is now SETTLED and never to be discussed in terms of equal ground ever again.


Nebraska
1993 - 11-1, lost national title game
1994 - 13-0, national champions
1995 - 13-0, national champions
1996 - 11-2, won Orange Bowl (lost Big 12 title game)
1997 - 13-0, national champions
1998 - 9-4, lost Holiday Bowl to Arizona
1999 - 12-1, Fiesta Bowl champions
2000 - 10-2, Alamo Bowl champions
2001 - 11-2, lost national championship game

Overall Record: 103-12, 3 national championships, 2 lost national title games, five conference championships, one Heisman Trophy winner

Alabama
2008 - 12-2, lost Sugar Bowl
2009 - 14-0, national champions
2010 - 10-3, Capitol One Bowl champions
2011 - 12-1, national champions
2012 - 13-1, national champions
2013 - 11-2, lost Sugar Bowl
2014 - 12-2, lost college football playoff
2015 - 14-1, national champions

Overall record: 98-12, 4 national championships, 0 lost national title games, four conference championships, two Heisman Trophy winners

And remember....Alabama did this in EIGHT seasons compared to Nebraska's NINE; if you subtract 2001 and have a straight eight comparison, Nebraska doesn't even have a Heisman winner and has one less title game appearance as well.

(Absolutely certain some Nebraska apologist will lock in on "we won more conference titles" and "you lost as many games in eight years as we did in nine").
 

RJ YellowHammer

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I think what Bama has accomplished on this latest run is remarkable. Yes they have been a dominant team, but they did not dominate like Nebraska did during their run. I am sure we are going to win a couple of more natys and the conversation will be over. In the meantime, I don't think we compare to Nebraska's run. When comparing best of all time dynasties, you have to nit pick a little for separation. Losing at home the last two years is what keeps me from anointing this run as the best.

During that Nebraska run, they destroyed Spurrier's best team which included Wueruel (sp?), Anthony, and Hillard for a national championship. They also beat a pretty good Tennessee team lead by Manning for another Title. They were beating the best of the best out of the SEC to win their championships. If I remember correctly, their achilles heel was Florida State. They kept losing to them in the Orange Bowl.

When Bama wins another Naty, I will be on board.

Well?
 

81usaf92

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I think Miami of the 80s to 92 is more comparable. I know, I know 3/4 of their titles were at the orange bowl, but 4 titles to 4 titles in a decade is more comparable than practically a 6 year stretch. I think Nebraska's 95 team is probably one of the top 5 teams of all time. Nebraska seems more like a run where bama seems more like an era of dominance.
 

TideMan09

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I also think with the advancement of strength and conditioning tools & health supplements S&C Programs have at their disposal now days..Allows for players across the board & at every school to be bigger, faster, just better athlete's playing in college football right now..

That's why you can never ever look past any team you play these days, if you do, they will sneak up & bite you on the backside with a win..The margin of error for a loss, as well parity in college football, is a lottttttt smaller now than it was back in The Husker's run & makes what Alabama is doing right now that much more impressive..If that makes any sense
 

selmaborntidefan

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I think Miami of the 80s to 92 is more comparable. I know, I know 3/4 of their titles were at the orange bowl, but 4 titles to 4 titles in a decade is more comparable than practically a 6 year stretch. I think Nebraska's 95 team is probably one of the top 5 teams of all time. Nebraska seems more like a run where bama seems more like an era of dominance.
Miami may well have won four titles in nine years and yes they were a very good team, but the arbitrary nature of polls only selection is a huge problem. For starters, ONE of their titles (1991) was split, NONE of Alabama's were. On at least two occasions they were leapfrogged over teams in the final vote, something that could not even possibly happen today with the championship game setup. They chickened out of a head-to-head match-up with Florida in the 1992 Sugar Bowl so they could play the game in their own little den. In fact, only one of Miami's titles - 1987 - was won cleanly. In 1983, they jumped a more deserving Auburn team to win; in 1989, for the ONLY TIME IN HISTORY, when Notre Dame beat #1 Colorado head-to-head, the voters jumped Miami over Notre Dame, using the logic that "since Miami won head-to-head." Of course, they didn't use this logic in 1978 (Alabama-USC) or 1993 (Notre Dame- FSU). The prior argument - the one that allowed Notre Dame to jump in 1977 and Miami in 1983 was "they beat #1 head-to-head in the last game."

So why was Miami the champion then in 1989?

Miami's was also done with three different coaches, at least two (Johnson and Erickson) whose actions got them put on major probation in 1995.
 

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