I agree with some of you that the offensive teams using the hunh are exploiting the rules to their advantage, so it doesn't bother me at all if defensive teams try to exploit the rules in response to the hunh teams. I've been surprised that we haven't seen more of it, quite frankly.
Here's one way to slow down up tempo offenses
- Thread starter rickvox79
- Start date
That's probably the best play that Richt called all night!
However, all laughing aside the HUNHO isn't illegal. You have 40 seconds to snap the ball. Doesn't matter if you snap it at :39 or :01. If that is illegal, then holding the ball until :01 to run the clock is also manipulating the rules.
However, all laughing aside the HUNHO isn't illegal. You have 40 seconds to snap the ball. Doesn't matter if you snap it at :39 or :01. If that is illegal, then holding the ball until :01 to run the clock is also manipulating the rules.
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On the flip side of the coin, in the dying seconds of the SECCG, when the Bulldogs were moving down the field, one of their wide receivers [Tavarres King?] faked an injury, and took his sweet time getting up, and then slowly making his way to the sideline.
When you watch the replay, you can see that, as soon as he gets to the sideline, he practically jumps up and turns around to watch the next play.
Some Bama fans at the game noticed this, as you can hear them booing after the replay...
Looks like karma came back to bite them at the end... :smile:
When you watch the replay, you can see that, as soon as he gets to the sideline, he practically jumps up and turns around to watch the next play.
Some Bama fans at the game noticed this, as you can hear them booing after the replay...
Looks like karma came back to bite them at the end... :smile:
The problem is the refs are assisting the speed of the offense. While watching the Vandy/Ole Mist game the refs are getting the ball set at a much faster pace for HUNHO than they are for those who don't run it. There continues to be penalties not being called for players not being set that would be called every time in other offenses.
I find it hypercritical that the rules committee's changed the defensive rules when they felt like the offenses weren't scoring enough and had an "unfair" advantage. Yet now we've got offenses running at such a fast pace that penalties are being missed, referees are assisting in the pace of the offenses and the game is heading toward nothing more than sandlot football. I go back to the question Saban asked when interviewed in the off season. "Is this what we want the game to be?"
Yeah, and I wasn't calling it an exploitation of the rules because they're skirting the line of what is legal. It's an exploitation of the rules to make a 40 yard pass down field because it helps back off the defense and the rules don't limit forward pass distance. Funny enough though, 20 yards was the max forward pass in the early days of the pass.
I do think that uptempo still hasn't been effectively regulated with their substitution equity. Especially when they can quickly sub a back or te for a receiver or vice versa and the defensive change doesn't get adaquete time to respond and set their player.
I do think that uptempo still hasn't been effectively regulated with their substitution equity. Especially when they can quickly sub a back or te for a receiver or vice versa and the defensive change doesn't get adaquete time to respond and set their player.
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Then why can't we have have a ref step in against someone "milking the clock" and say, "Snap the ball so the other team gets some time left on the clock." One thing that ticks me off in basketball is a ref holding the ball when we are in-bounding the ball and letting the defense set up in the press. The best way to beat the press is to inbound before the defense sets up. If that is the way my team can gain some sort of advantage against superior athletes then that's the way you do it. Strategy! If a team went to "No-Huddle" the refs would have to be faster with getting the ball set. Once they see you get in the huddle then yes they are going to take that time. I guess that is human nature.
I just don't see a "clock" being placed inside of the "clock" for snapping the ball. You may only snap the ball after then ball has been set by the official (but no sooner than setting the ball and only after setting the ball) after the time period of 5 seconds after the ball is set and no sooner than placing of the ball by the official (Not 3, or 4 but 5 seconds after the placing of the ball). etc....... Sounds like we are going to toss the "Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch"!
Defensive Coordinators are going to have to start being more creative to respond to new offenses.
I just don't see a "clock" being placed inside of the "clock" for snapping the ball. You may only snap the ball after then ball has been set by the official (but no sooner than setting the ball and only after setting the ball) after the time period of 5 seconds after the ball is set and no sooner than placing of the ball by the official (Not 3, or 4 but 5 seconds after the placing of the ball). etc....... Sounds like we are going to toss the "Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch"!
Defensive Coordinators are going to have to start being more creative to respond to new offenses.
I agree 100%. It has bugged me for a long time that the refs not enforcing the rules about getting set and staying set for at least 1 full second before the ball is snapped. If the refs would be consistent with how the get the ball ready to be snapped and enforce the rules, then I have no problem with the HUNH and in fact rather enjoy watching a well executed offense that can exploit weaknesses in a defense. If coaches can come up with a legal offensive scheme that works then it is up to the defensive coaches to come up with a plan to stop that scheme. That is just football and part of what I enjoy about the game.
OTOH, faking injuries is cheating even if you can get away with it. I do think the rules need to be modified to discourage this practice. Perhaps any injury in the final 2 minutes of either the 2nd or 4th quarters results in the player having to sit out the rest of that series instead of just one play.
I can agree that it isn't the officials job to assure either unit is in the best position possible. One important thing to note with your comparison to the basketball press:
An unset, out-of-position basketball defender unready to make a basketball related move isn't as much of an injury risk as an unset, out-of-position football defender unready to make a football related move. Football is a contact sport and basketball is not. A forward out of position in some 1-3-1 press look isn't about to get mauled by another forward. Heck, they tend to call offensive fouls for screens of that variety if they aren't immaculately set.
My biggest concern is the injury risk for defenders. Considering these up tempo teams still have 300lb OL, I don't think the response is smaller 1960s era defenders with more conditioning.
An unset, out-of-position basketball defender unready to make a basketball related move isn't as much of an injury risk as an unset, out-of-position football defender unready to make a football related move. Football is a contact sport and basketball is not. A forward out of position in some 1-3-1 press look isn't about to get mauled by another forward. Heck, they tend to call offensive fouls for screens of that variety if they aren't immaculately set.
My biggest concern is the injury risk for defenders. Considering these up tempo teams still have 300lb OL, I don't think the response is smaller 1960s era defenders with more conditioning.
They will do nothing with injury faking because it will inevitably lead to more players trying to play through a tweak and injuring himself further against tempo offenses. In this climate of player safety, the NCAA is doing nothing to compromise anything that prevents injury.
Why not simply go back to allowing the defenses to do what they used to could do before all the rule changes were implemented to boost scoring? That would solve a lot of the issue. We've put so many rules in to benefit the offense its pathetic.
Once the ball is spotted the team ought to be able to snap it when they want. But the ref should not spot the ball at a different pace for one team simply because of the style offense they run. It shouldn't matter to the ref what style offense is run. Part of the reason for the spotting of the ball and signaling "ready for play" by the ref is to allow both teams a fair shot at getting lined up. Much like the umpire signaling to the pitcher (in baseball) when he can throw a pitch.
Take into account all of the rules that favor the offense what realistically can defenses do to "adjust"? The rules are so imbalanced toward the offense it's pathetic. Rich Rodriguez even admitted such and admitted that his type offenses takes advantages of those rules. So what have we left the defenses to do to "adjust?".
Once the ball is spotted the team ought to be able to snap it when they want. But the ref should not spot the ball at a different pace for one team simply because of the style offense they run. It shouldn't matter to the ref what style offense is run. Part of the reason for the spotting of the ball and signaling "ready for play" by the ref is to allow both teams a fair shot at getting lined up. Much like the umpire signaling to the pitcher (in baseball) when he can throw a pitch.
Take into account all of the rules that favor the offense what realistically can defenses do to "adjust"? The rules are so imbalanced toward the offense it's pathetic. Rich Rodriguez even admitted such and admitted that his type offenses takes advantages of those rules. So what have we left the defenses to do to "adjust?".
That's different than not rushing to place the ball and signal that it's 'in play'. No one is saying they should have a cup of coffee and a sandwich before the whistle the ball ready for play, but that the refs should use the same speed to place the ball and whistle it in play all the time, regardless of what offense the team is running.
Here is a clip of Cal doing the same thing to Oregon a few years ago:
[video=youtube;BEr6tHeuKnA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=BEr6tHeuKnA[/video]
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