News Article: Utah HS FB Coach Suspends Entire Team

Any Lutherans on this board? (Or Calvinists, for that matter?)

Lex semper tyrannus.

BamaPokerplayer said:

You seem to make assumptions in this thread that as long as someone is gifted others should get punished for their stupidity.

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LOL - Yep, that's exactly what I said. :biggrin:

B1GTide said:

LOL - Yep, that's exactly what I said. :biggrin:

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I know it gets kinda of silly when people say what you are assuming doesn't it.

BamaPokerplayer said:

I know it gets kinda of silly when people say what you are assuming doesn't it.

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Touche'

I'm going to step out of this thread. I guess I will just have to agree to disagree. I still love ya B1GTide and Mamacalled.

It's not about punishing or rewarding...it's about building a better team. Having the "innocent" help pay for the transgressions of the "guilty" sometimes happens...on teams and in life. If the high character guys give you the best chance to win, by all means put em in and then let'em lead the Sunday school class after the game. But if the sinners give you the best chance to win, then a coach has a decision...has his heathen all-stars paid for their transgressions? If so, and coaches and players "believe in" them, then put them in....and maybe throw in an extra confessional service next week...But still, it's about team first. What was that receivers name that Saban worked with that first year at Bama? Talented...but maybe not the most clean cut, dependable young man on campus. CNS walked that tightrope pretty well....

OK, having finally read the article...........

In my day, coach would have made us show up, 7 AM Saturday morning, and run up and down the stadium steps until we puked our guts out. Then screamed at us, until he couldn't scream anymore. Then, make us run more. And probably more screaming.

Now, they get told their attitude needs work, and get to do community service. Not exactly my idea of "suspension". (Yeah, I know..............they had to complete their little tasks before they got their jerseys back. Which I bet was in time for the next game.)

Both methods teach a lesson. Only one method helped you win Q4.

Should have ordered a Code Red.

BamaPokerplayer said:

I think we can work this out now.

High Character/High Ability = Pays for others character Issues; will probably see more than his fair share of playing time.

High Character/Low Ability = Pays for others character issues; will probably see less than his fair share of playing time.

Low Character/High Ability = Pays for his character issues with the help of others, will probably see more than his fair share of playing time.

Low Character/Low Ability = Pays for his character issues with the help of others, will probably see less than his fair share of playing time.

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Your "analysis" ignores the improvement of character through lessons learned.

BamaPokerplayer said:

High Character/High Ability = Pays for others character Issues; will probably see more than his fair share of playing time.

High Character/Low Ability = Pays for others character issues; will probably see less than his fair share of playing time.

Low Character/High Ability = Pays for his character issues with the help of others, will probably see more than his fair share of playing time.

Low Character/Low Ability = Pays for his character issues with the help of others, will probably see less than his fair share of playing time.

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The facts don't support your thread hijack. From the article (that I doubt you read):

Instead of practicing during the days leading up to a homecoming game against Emery High this Friday, they were told to perform community service, and attend study hall and a class on character development. They were also required to perform service for their own families and write a report about their actions.

The players were told they also need to show up on time and attend all of their classes. And those with bad grades were told they must show improvement if they wanted to play.

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With that in mid, here is my revision of your breakdown:

High Character/High Ability = Are happy to do community service and (gasp!) go to class. Play more than the average player, which is fair.

High Character/Low Ability = Are happy to do community service and (gasp!) go to class. They aren't going to be career athletes, so it's especially good that they're getting this character reinforcement.

Low Character/High Ability = They view this as a punishment. They won't play if they don't get with the program.

Low Character/Low Ability = They view this as a punishment. They won't play if they don't get with the program.

At first I thought the coach was going overboard kicking everyone off the team. But all he is really making them do is go to some lame class about being a good citizen and then spend the day at a homeless shelter. Then they'll all be back on the team for the game Friday.

For all this he makes himself look like some kind of saint. At least Manziel missed actual playing time.

B1GTide said:

My point is that you are asking the same questions that I have already answered, but you are now using a different segment of our society in the questions.

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B1GTide, I hope your head has quit hurting from beating it against the wall. All of your points were spot-on, as most folks on here would attest. Some folks just don't get the concept of what a "team" is really about - you're just wasting your breath trying to argue with them. (But nice try!)

BamaPokerplayer said:

Do right and you will get punished?

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TEAMS have to share the bad as well as the good.
Lot of players on our NC teams got rings & did not play.

Player said: My post clearly says high character high ability will get more than their fair share of playing time. I was responding to someone who said that: Character plus Ability = Playing Time.

High character and high ability will definitely get more playing time. There is no such thing as "fair share" of playing time.

High ability and low character SHOULD get NO playing time, or reduced playing time in a program that is run correctly. That varies with the coaches and the schools. I will submit that in many cases it doesn't work that way. But those coaches don't teach the right lessons. I think this coaching staff has the right idea...

cuda.1973 said:

OK, having finally read the article...........

In my day, coach would have made us show up, 7 AM Saturday morning, and run up and down the stadium steps until we puked our guts out. Then screamed at us, until he couldn't scream anymore. Then, make us run more. And probably more screaming.

Now, they get told their attitude needs work, and get to do community service. Not exactly my idea of "suspension". (Yeah, I know..............they had to complete their little tasks before they got their jerseys back. Which I bet was in time for the next game.)

Both methods teach a lesson. Only one method helped you win Q4.

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THIS.

While having the players do community service and take character classes is a great idea, they should have had some "typical" football punishment, i.e, the stair running until you puke thing. Most kids only want to do that once, but the other stuff--while it gets them life training, it also gets them OUT of practice, out of the sun, off the stadium stairs, etc. Combine the punishment with the character building if you want to truly and completely get your point across.

TiderJ said:

I heard someone call it peer punishment. When a bad apple(s) does something bad you punish everyone so the good apples will make sure bad apples don't do it again and they feel bad for making the good apples go through it and it changes their habits.

The NY Jets had 20 penalties and 160+ penalty yards this past week. Rex Ryan implemented a practice policy that anytime someone had a penalty the entire organization including Ryan, asst coaches and even owner Woody Johnson has to do 10 push-ups and the person who committed the penalty does not do them and watches everyone else do them. It's probably a little overboard for a pro athlete/organization but it is a great policy for anyone 23 years old or less IMO.

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REX RYAN CAN DO 10 PUSH UPS??!!??

BamaPokerplayer said:

I do and I think it is flawed.

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you're not the coach, and its not your team....
soooooooo.....

Crimson1967 said:

At first I thought the coach was going overboard kicking everyone off the team. But all he is really making them do is go to some lame class about being a good citizen and then spend the day at a homeless shelter. Then they'll all be back on the team for the game Friday.

For all this he makes himself look like some kind of saint. At least Manziel missed actual playing time.

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yeah, that was my problem with it. he didn't really "suspend" anyone. the players had to go through a bit of inconvenience and check a couple of boxes to get "back on" the team. im not sure a big lesson was learned.

92tide said:

yeah, that was my problem with it. he didn't really "suspend" anyone. the players had to go through a bit of inconvenience and check a couple of boxes to get "back on" the team. im not sure a big lesson was learned.

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True enough, but he didn't pretend that he was doing anything else, either. He didn't hold a press conference to announce the suspensions or anything of the like. We only know about this because the community thought that it was important to them, and the story caught on.

Even a "smiling cat" can become popular on the web.