News Article: Report: 95% odds that humans are to blame for warming
- Thread starter Bamaro
- Start date
I am 95% certain that real science has nothing to do with consensus.
Time For Some Realism - But IPCC Fails
Time For Some Realism - But IPCC Fails
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Even if all the GW claims are true, so what? Other than frauds like Al Gore getting uber-wealthy and the government getting more and more power, of course.
Ooohh a link war!
http://www.toxicworldbook.com/?p=110
Yes I know that this is like countering republican ideas by pointing people to democrats.org but I digress.
Appendix:
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Balling
Wikipedia said:
I can't link it here, but I think George Carlin's observations on saving the planet apply well here (and note that you CANNOT use the six-day creationist religious argument on Carlin, either). (Edited for TF)
You got people like this around you? Country is full of them now! People walking around all day long, every minute of the day — worried about EVERYTHING! Worried about the air, worried about the water, worried about the soil. Worried about insecticides, pesticides, food additives, carcinogens; worried about radon gas; worried about asbestos. Worried about saving endangered species.
Let me tell you about endangered species, all right? Saving endangered species is just one more arrogant attempt by humans to control Nature! It's arrogant meddling! It's what got us into trouble in the first place! Doesn't anybody understand that? Interfering with Nature! Over 90 percent.. over... way over 90 percent of all the species that have ever lived — EVER LIVED — on this planet are gone. Whissshht! They are extinct!
We didn't kill them all.
They just... disappeared! That's what Nature does! They disappear these days at the rate of 25 a day, and I mean regardless of our behavior. Irrespective of how we act on this planet, 25 species that were here today, will be gone tomorrow! Let them go... gracefully! Leave Nature alone! Haven't we done enough?
We're so self-important. So self-important! Everybody's going to save something now. "Save the trees; save the bees; save the whales; save those snails." And the greatest arrogance of all, "Save the planet." WHAT? Are these people kidding me? Save the planet? We don't even know how to take care of ourselves yet. We haven't learned how to care for one another, we're gonna save the planet?
I'm getting tired of that. Tired of that ..... Tired! I'm tired of Earth Day! I'm tired of these self-righteous environmentalists; these white, bourgeois liberals who think the only thing wrong with this country is there aren't enough bicycle paths. People trying to make the world safe for their Volvos. Besides, environmentalists don't give a about the planet. They don't care about the planet. Not in the abstract they don't. Not in the abstract they don't. You know what they're interested in? A clean place to live. Their own habitat. They're worried that some day in the future, they might be personally inconvenienced. Narrow, unenlightened self-interest doesn't impress me.
Besides, there is nothing wrong with the planet. Nothing wrong with the planet. The planet is fine. The PEOPLE are. Difference. Difference! The planet is fine. Compared to the people, the planet is doing great. Been here four and a half billion years. Did you ever think about the arithmetic? The planet has been here four and a half billion years. We've been here, what? A hundred thousand? Maybe two hundred thousand? And we've only been engaged in heavy industry for a little over two hundred years. Two hundred years versus four and a half billion. And we have the CONCEIT to think that somehow we're a threat? That somehow we're gonna put in jeopardy this beautiful little blue-green ball that's just a-floatin' around the sun?
The planet has been through a lot worse than us. Been through all kinds of things worse than us. Been through earthquakes, volcanoes, plate tectonics, continental drift, solar flares, sun spots, magnetic storms, the magnetic reversal of the poles; hundreds of thousands of years of bombardment by comets and asteroids and meteors; worlwide floods, tidal waves, worldwide fires, erosion, cosmic rays, recurring ice ages... And we think some plastic bags, and some aluminum cans are going to make a difference? The planet... the planet... the planet isn't going anywhere. WE ARE!
We're going away. Pack your, folks. We're going away. And we won't leave much of a trace, either. Thank God for that. Maybe a little styrofoam. Maybe. A little styrofoam. The planet will be here and we'll be long gone. Just another failed mutation. Just another closed-end biological mistake. An evolutionary cul-de-sac. The planet will shake us off like a bad case of fleas. A surface nuisance.
You wanna know how the planet is doing? Ask those people at Pompeii, who are frozen into position from volcanic ash, "How the planet's doing?" You wanna know if the planet's all right, ask those people in Mexico City or Armenia or a hundred other places buried under thousands of tons of earthquake rubble, if they feel like a threat to the planet this week. Or how about those people in Kilowaia, Hawaii, who built their homes right next to an active volcano, and then wonder why they have lava in the living room.
The planet will be here for a long, long — LONG — time after we're gone, and it will heal itself; it will cleanse itself, because that's what it does. It's a self-correcting system. The air and the water will recover; the earth will be renewed; and, if it's true that plastic is not degradable, well, the planet will simply incorporate plastic into a new pardigm: the Earth plus plastic! The Earth doesn't share our prejudice towards plastic. Plastic came out of the Earth. The Earth probably sees plastic as just another one of its children. Could be the only reason the Earth allowed us to be spawned from it in the first place. It wanted plastic for itself. Didn't know how to make it. Needed us. Could be the answer to our age-old philosophical question, "Why are we here?" "Plastic!."
You got people like this around you? Country is full of them now! People walking around all day long, every minute of the day — worried about EVERYTHING! Worried about the air, worried about the water, worried about the soil. Worried about insecticides, pesticides, food additives, carcinogens; worried about radon gas; worried about asbestos. Worried about saving endangered species.
Let me tell you about endangered species, all right? Saving endangered species is just one more arrogant attempt by humans to control Nature! It's arrogant meddling! It's what got us into trouble in the first place! Doesn't anybody understand that? Interfering with Nature! Over 90 percent.. over... way over 90 percent of all the species that have ever lived — EVER LIVED — on this planet are gone. Whissshht! They are extinct!
We didn't kill them all.
They just... disappeared! That's what Nature does! They disappear these days at the rate of 25 a day, and I mean regardless of our behavior. Irrespective of how we act on this planet, 25 species that were here today, will be gone tomorrow! Let them go... gracefully! Leave Nature alone! Haven't we done enough?
We're so self-important. So self-important! Everybody's going to save something now. "Save the trees; save the bees; save the whales; save those snails." And the greatest arrogance of all, "Save the planet." WHAT? Are these people kidding me? Save the planet? We don't even know how to take care of ourselves yet. We haven't learned how to care for one another, we're gonna save the planet?
I'm getting tired of that. Tired of that ..... Tired! I'm tired of Earth Day! I'm tired of these self-righteous environmentalists; these white, bourgeois liberals who think the only thing wrong with this country is there aren't enough bicycle paths. People trying to make the world safe for their Volvos. Besides, environmentalists don't give a about the planet. They don't care about the planet. Not in the abstract they don't. Not in the abstract they don't. You know what they're interested in? A clean place to live. Their own habitat. They're worried that some day in the future, they might be personally inconvenienced. Narrow, unenlightened self-interest doesn't impress me.
Besides, there is nothing wrong with the planet. Nothing wrong with the planet. The planet is fine. The PEOPLE are. Difference. Difference! The planet is fine. Compared to the people, the planet is doing great. Been here four and a half billion years. Did you ever think about the arithmetic? The planet has been here four and a half billion years. We've been here, what? A hundred thousand? Maybe two hundred thousand? And we've only been engaged in heavy industry for a little over two hundred years. Two hundred years versus four and a half billion. And we have the CONCEIT to think that somehow we're a threat? That somehow we're gonna put in jeopardy this beautiful little blue-green ball that's just a-floatin' around the sun?
The planet has been through a lot worse than us. Been through all kinds of things worse than us. Been through earthquakes, volcanoes, plate tectonics, continental drift, solar flares, sun spots, magnetic storms, the magnetic reversal of the poles; hundreds of thousands of years of bombardment by comets and asteroids and meteors; worlwide floods, tidal waves, worldwide fires, erosion, cosmic rays, recurring ice ages... And we think some plastic bags, and some aluminum cans are going to make a difference? The planet... the planet... the planet isn't going anywhere. WE ARE!
We're going away. Pack your, folks. We're going away. And we won't leave much of a trace, either. Thank God for that. Maybe a little styrofoam. Maybe. A little styrofoam. The planet will be here and we'll be long gone. Just another failed mutation. Just another closed-end biological mistake. An evolutionary cul-de-sac. The planet will shake us off like a bad case of fleas. A surface nuisance.
You wanna know how the planet is doing? Ask those people at Pompeii, who are frozen into position from volcanic ash, "How the planet's doing?" You wanna know if the planet's all right, ask those people in Mexico City or Armenia or a hundred other places buried under thousands of tons of earthquake rubble, if they feel like a threat to the planet this week. Or how about those people in Kilowaia, Hawaii, who built their homes right next to an active volcano, and then wonder why they have lava in the living room.
The planet will be here for a long, long — LONG — time after we're gone, and it will heal itself; it will cleanse itself, because that's what it does. It's a self-correcting system. The air and the water will recover; the earth will be renewed; and, if it's true that plastic is not degradable, well, the planet will simply incorporate plastic into a new pardigm: the Earth plus plastic! The Earth doesn't share our prejudice towards plastic. Plastic came out of the Earth. The Earth probably sees plastic as just another one of its children. Could be the only reason the Earth allowed us to be spawned from it in the first place. It wanted plastic for itself. Didn't know how to make it. Needed us. Could be the answer to our age-old philosophical question, "Why are we here?" "Plastic!."
If you'd actually looked at the article I'd linked to (Time For Some Reason...), you would've seen that the article is not one written by ICECAP (though if it had been, would've been irrelevant - I'll get to that later). It's actually a reprinted blog by Andrew Lord Montford, another editorial by Bob Tisdale, and finally, the point of the piece, an article by The Scientific Alliance.
As for your argument against ICECAP, I can offer a wiki link myself:
Poisoning The Well
Quite coincidentally, one of the refrains from the Scientific Alliance article I linked above, speaks to the "Poisoning The Well" rhetorical fallacy. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to address both:
As for your argument against ICECAP, I can offer a wiki link myself:
Poisoning The Well
Quite coincidentally, one of the refrains from the Scientific Alliance article I linked above, speaks to the "Poisoning The Well" rhetorical fallacy. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to address both:
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The Iranian Council for Interplanetary Chicken Farming says it's a 99.9% chance the Holocaust Never Happened......
Technically you are 100% correct.
However in practice when people argue from a position where their livelihood is based upon them continuing to hold a specific belief set, it is fair to question their motives. You could easily say that about most scientists I guess. And likely will counter a climate change denier getting 400K in donations from the oil and gas industry with the scientist who gets 400K in grant money from the US Government due to the US Government having staked its claim behind man made climate change.
So I guess we are at an impasse. You, with the 15% of the people who's livelihood are tied to the oil and gas industries, and me with the remaining 85% funded independently, through government backing and various world organizations will just have to agree to disagree. However from a rational point of view, is it easier to believe that those 15% of the people are really standing up for healthy science while those remaining 85% know that it is sham and are all on the government dole? Seems like an awful large number of scientists to get to keep quiet about a big conspiracy to convince the world that climate change is real.
*Note: I just made up the 15%/85% split. You can have more if you want. 51-85% of the worlds scientists participating in a gigantic climate change conspiracy is still an awfully large number to believe that have managed to keep quiet regarding the fact that they are all on the government dole.
You brought up conspiracies - I didn't. I'm not presenting a poisoned well argument. My only argument thus far has been that scientists disagree and question, which is, like, kind of their job.
True regarding the conspiracies, I did introduce that. It is germane to the conversation because that is the only logical explanation that climate change skeptics can really sink their teeth into when claiming that all of these scientists for climate change, who from all the data I can gather out number the skeptics, are shilling from a poisoned well position. You brought up the poisoned well argument which by your argument infers that the source of the information (most often governments) cannot be trusted.
The poisoned well argument goes both ways. If you believe I was attacking the source of your data due to the funding of some of its major backers, the same can be said regarding attacking the latest IPCC report. Picking and choosing your data and researchers is disingenuous for both sides.
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