Watching 30 for 30: The U

Maudiemae

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Oct 18, 2003
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It's amazing to me watching this. The players from the late 80's and early 90's actually don't seem to realize that people talked badly about them because of their behavior in those years. They are certain it was because they were winning. They were responsible for changes of rules concerning sportsmanship. Somehow, they are proud of that.
 

selmaborntidefan

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It's amazing to me watching this. The players from the late 80's and early 90's actually don't seem to realize that people talked badly about them because of their behavior in those years.
One thing that documentary subtly suggests is racism. Never mind that every single team in college football had black players and NONE OF THEM acted like the thugs at Miami. What was always funny was when SI or somebody would try to suggest that "well, Larry Bird is the biggest trash talker in the NBA" and suggest the reason people hated the Canes, the late 1980s Oakland A's and the Bad Boyz Pistons was because of race. Never mind that Larry Bird - unlike the Canes - left all that out on the court. He never called a press conference like Lamar Thomas did and said that Alabama's secondary weren't "real men" and that the Tide figured that if we could "keep it close" it would "do something for their program."

Furthermore, that don't shake hands crap and their juvenile behavior at the steak dinner at the Fiesta Bowl were not on-field incidents. And that documentary subtly suggests folks liked Penn State because they represented "white America." Never mind that Penn State's biggest star was a black running back named D.J. Dozier. Yes, Shane Conlan and the QB (Shaffer?) were white, but so was Vinny Testaverde.



They are certain it was because they were winning.
And race.

They were responsible for changes of rules concerning sportsmanship. Somehow, they are proud of that.
Yeah, that trash they pulled at the Cotton Bowl that year was a low moment. Btw - and I don't recall if the documentary mentions it - but what caused that was Michael Irvin visited the team and told them they were losing their roots and to go out and really put on a show.

One of the Tide players - I think it might be Teague - said after a big play that he felt like doing a backflip in Lamar Thomas's face. And Teague's high-stepping to the end zone on that pick for a TD would be called today and the TD removed.
 

4Q Basket Case

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Nov 8, 2004
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One thing that documentary subtly suggests is racism. Never mind that every single team in college football had black players and NONE OF THEM acted like the thugs at Miami. What was always funny was when SI or somebody would try to suggest that "well, Larry Bird is the biggest trash talker in the NBA" and suggest the reason people hated the Canes, the late 1980s Oakland A's and the Bad Boyz Pistons was because of race. Never mind that Larry Bird - unlike the Canes - left all that out on the court. He never called a press conference like Lamar Thomas did and said that Alabama's secondary weren't "real men" and that the Tide figured that if we could "keep it close" it would "do something for their program."

Furthermore, that don't shake hands crap and their juvenile behavior at the steak dinner at the Fiesta Bowl were not on-field incidents. And that documentary subtly suggests folks liked Penn State because they represented "white America." Never mind that Penn State's biggest star was a black running back named D.J. Dozier. Yes, Shane Conlan and the QB (Shaffer?) were white, but so was Vinny Testaverde.





And race.



Yeah, that trash they pulled at the Cotton Bowl that year was a low moment. Btw - and I don't recall if the documentary mentions it - but what caused that was Michael Irvin visited the team and told them they were losing their roots and to go out and really put on a show.

One of the Tide players - I think it might be Teague - said after a big play that he felt like doing a backflip in Lamar Thomas's face. And Teague's high-stepping to the end zone on that pick for a TD would be called today and the TD removed.
In my experience, the race card gets played when the speaker knows he doesn't have a legitimate point, and just wants the opposition to shut up and go away.

This type of thing isn't limited to any color or political belief.

When cornered with no way out, white liberals will often compare the opposition to Adolf Hitler.

White conservatives will call the opposition Socialist or bleeding hearts or less than masculine.

Since nobody wants to be called racist or compared to Hitler, or have their manhood questioned, these tactics often work.

But just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't make them the devil incarnate. And coming out of the back of the room with a sucker punch doesn't lend credence to your argument.

This tactic, and the unthinking people it sways, are a big reason why we're so divided on so many fronts.
 

TiderGreg

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I think the peek was then 'canes commentator Lamar Thomas threatening to join the brawl going down with Florida Internatiol. "You don't come into our house.........I'm heading down the elevator". He was fired the next day I think.

The U never had the fan support to sustain greatness. They were in the middle of a recruiting monopoly with speed and skill positions, but couldn't sustain getting the big 6-5 300lbs guys from the rest of the southeast.
 

Maudiemae

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They still don't have huge fan support. I don't remember all the "love" or adulation in the eighties for the Canes that they talked about in this thing. People didn't care about the Dolphins the way they did about the Hurricanes? Are they serious? I never saw that. I lived down here then. Granted, I saw more fans come out of the woodwork right before that certain bowl game against us, but it still can't compare to the support UF has here now. Never did. I was thrilled for many, many reasons when we beat them! And mind you, my husband went there and my father PLAYED for them back in the leather helmet era!
,
 

bamabryan

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I always chuckle @ ESPN leaving out the part that Bama ending that dynasty. The U? More like, The Who. (No disrespect to the legendary rock group.)
I've wondered why ESPN left out the fact that Alabama put the squash on that dynasty. Miami was never the same after Bama destroyed them in that game.
 

Crimson1967

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They were on the verge of dropping the sport when Schnellenberger turned them around. In the early 1970s, they had to drop one sport and were about to drop baseball when their coach lobbied to keep it and they dropped basketball. The basketball team was revived in the mid 1980s after football became a national power.
 

TideMan09

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I'll give credit where credit is due, they were one of the best "Dynasty" of all time, but, too me their showboating took any respect I could have for them, and threw my respect in the trash..They didn't represent what' college football is about & stands for, they were pure thugs, and wasn't shy representing their thuggish behavior..
 

chattabama12

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Oct 22, 2008
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I'm so far in the minority here that I'm basically an alien. I love that documentary!!! I have seen it probably 5 times and laugh every time they show the NCAA film on sportsmanship along side the Miami highlights. The director did skip over the 92' game, but that's his choice and not ESPNs. And I definitely didn't get a race vibe from it. Maybe a rich vs poor vibe when he shows the UM president sipping champaign and listening to classical music. I have talked to many people that think it is the best 30 for 30 ever made and I am in complete agreement.(Actually a thread about best 30 for 30 might be fun). I'm not going to say that I completely disagree with you guys, but I do seem to have a much different view of that one.
 

selmaborntidefan

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TideMan 09,

Tend to agree with you but not here. Miami was not they were cracked up to be. Talented, sure. But simply look at their teams CLOSELY and a different picture emerges.

1983 - their first national title was a freak of nature. Basically, they were rated number five and all four teams above them were contractually obligated to go to certain bowls. They get Nebraska in a home game and win, jump an Auburn team with the same record that played a schedule three or four times more difficult than Miami, oh - and they lost to Florida, 28-3, so they weren't even the best team in Florida, much less the USA.

1985 - they shamelessly run up the score on Notre Dame. Now I'll admit I laughed because it was the Irish. But this year is sort of a microcosm. They lose to Florida in the opener AGAIN and then get smoked by Tennessee in the Sugar Bowl after spending a month whining about why they should be number one. Two SEC teams, two Miami losses.

1986 - go unbeaten until the end and then Vinny T throws five picks to Penn State and the Canes lose.

1987 - I'll admit I'd be hard-pressed to argue this particular year. This is their one undisputed title from that time frame. Since they beat the other unbeaten, Oklahoma, can't say much (yes Syracuse was unbeaten and didn't play anyone).

1988 - whine, whine. They lose to Notre Dame and then spend the entire month of the West Virginia-Notre Dame build-up saying that if West Virginia beats the Irish then MIAMI should be number one despite a lesser record and a loss to the Irish. What a bunch of whiners they were.

1989 - lose to Florida State, play a soft-touch schedule but since they beat Notre Dame and Auburn beat us, Miami is in line for the championship. When Notre Dame beats Colorado in the Orange Bowl, Miami jumps to number one. While I can see the reasoning again - they were not even the best team in FLORIDA, much less the entire USA. Yes, they beat a Notre Dame team that played a killer schedule while Miami was tip-toeing through the tulips (btw - I hate the Irish, too, so it's not like I'm for them). But this one was questionable.

1990 - they mess up and schedule some decent opponents early. Oops!! Two losses!! I contend that had Miami played two months EVERY year like their schedule this particular year, they would not have a single championship. Their early schedule was BYU (Heisman winner Ty Detmer), Cal (7-4-1), Iowa (who went to the Rose Bowl that year), Florida State (a top five team), and then after a breather with Kansas, they played Notre Dame. Yes - they finally played a DECENT schedule and lost TWICE in six games.

And you find this with them, which is why I don't respect them at all. They were 8-4 against the SEC during their "great" run, and one of those wins was against a terrible MSU team.

1991 - a good team, yes, but if you saw the Washington Huskies that year, they remind you of the 2011 Alabama team. I'm serious - they were THAT good on both sides of the ball and built similarly. Washington had only one game against a tough schedule that was closer than double digits, a narrow victory over Cal on the road. Miami played some decent teams this year - but then they ducked out on playing Florida in the Sugar Bowl and took the pansy game with Nebraska at home.

Their ducking tough foes and carefully crafting schedules will never get my respect. They were a freak that benefited from a lazy East Coast media. And btw - they were invited into the SEC when Arky and S Carolina came and they dodged - because they knew their reign would be over in a heartbeat.

And it was.
 

TideMan09

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You make some valid points I have no argument to make against Brother..Yo're spot on as usual Selma..


TideMan 09,

Tend to agree with you but not here. Miami was not they were cracked up to be. Talented, sure. But simply look at their teams CLOSELY and a different picture emerges.

1983 - their first national title was a freak of nature. Basically, they were rated number five and all four teams above them were contractually obligated to go to certain bowls. They get Nebraska in a home game and win, jump an Auburn team with the same record that played a schedule three or four times more difficult than Miami, oh - and they lost to Florida, 28-3, so they weren't even the best team in Florida, much less the USA.

1985 - they shamelessly run up the score on Notre Dame. Now I'll admit I laughed because it was the Irish. But this year is sort of a microcosm. They lose to Florida in the opener AGAIN and then get smoked by Tennessee in the Sugar Bowl after spending a month whining about why they should be number one. Two SEC teams, two Miami losses.

1986 - go unbeaten until the end and then Vinny T throws five picks to Penn State and the Canes lose.

1987 - I'll admit I'd be hard-pressed to argue this particular year. This is their one undisputed title from that time frame. Since they beat the other unbeaten, Oklahoma, can't say much (yes Syracuse was unbeaten and didn't play anyone).

1988 - whine, whine. They lose to Notre Dame and then spend the entire month of the West Virginia-Notre Dame build-up saying that if West Virginia beats the Irish then MIAMI should be number one despite a lesser record and a loss to the Irish. What a bunch of whiners they were.

1989 - lose to Florida State, play a soft-touch schedule but since they beat Notre Dame and Auburn beat us, Miami is in line for the championship. When Notre Dame beats Colorado in the Orange Bowl, Miami jumps to number one. While I can see the reasoning again - they were not even the best team in FLORIDA, much less the entire USA. Yes, they beat a Notre Dame team that played a killer schedule while Miami was tip-toeing through the tulips (btw - I hate the Irish, too, so it's not like I'm for them). But this one was questionable.

1990 - they mess up and schedule some decent opponents early. Oops!! Two losses!! I contend that had Miami played two months EVERY year like their schedule this particular year, they would not have a single championship. Their early schedule was BYU (Heisman winner Ty Detmer), Cal (7-4-1), Iowa (who went to the Rose Bowl that year), Florida State (a top five team), and then after a breather with Kansas, they played Notre Dame. Yes - they finally played a DECENT schedule and lost TWICE in six games.

And you find this with them, which is why I don't respect them at all. They were 8-4 against the SEC during their "great" run, and one of those wins was against a terrible MSU team.

1991 - a good team, yes, but if you saw the Washington Huskies that year, they remind you of the 2011 Alabama team. I'm serious - they were THAT good on both sides of the ball and built similarly. Washington had only one game against a tough schedule that was closer than double digits, a narrow victory over Cal on the road. Miami played some decent teams this year - but then they ducked out on playing Florida in the Sugar Bowl and took the pansy game with Nebraska at home.

Their ducking tough foes and carefully crafting schedules will never get my respect. They were a freak that benefited from a lazy East Coast media. And btw - they were invited into the SEC when Arky and S Carolina came and they dodged - because they knew their reign would be over in a heartbeat.

And it was.
 

selmaborntidefan

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I'm so far in the minority here that I'm basically an alien. I love that documentary!!! I have seen it probably 5 times and laugh every time they show the NCAA film on sportsmanship along side the Miami highlights. The director did skip over the 92' game, but that's his choice and not ESPNs. And I definitely didn't get a race vibe from it. Maybe a rich vs poor vibe when he shows the UM president sipping champaign and listening to classical music. I have talked to many people that think it is the best 30 for 30 ever made and I am in complete agreement.(Actually a thread about best 30 for 30 might be fun). I'm not going to say that I completely disagree with you guys, but I do seem to have a much different view of that one.
So at the 37 minute mark when Dan LeBetard and the other guys are talking about how it "scared the hell out of white America," you don't get what they're saying?

At the 40 minute mark, I think it's Lamar Thomas saying folks wanted to see USC and Notre Dame band and not Luther Campbell booty dancing. Again - can you seriously tell me you don't now what he's saying?

Or the reference to the steak dinner with Penn State as a "total redneck country thing?" Then they allege that the storming out at the steak dinner (in fatigues no less) was because of racist remarks made by Penn State kicker John Bruno. Of course, two things make that impossible: 1) never once have we ever been told WHAT Bruno said: 2) he had numerous black teammates, so do you SERIOUSLY think he said anything that offensive? It was a predetermined walkout and Johnson let them do it. And btw - that propaganda shows Jerome Brown rhetorically asking if the Japanese sat down with the guys at Pearl Harbor before bombing them.

What it doesn't show is Bruno - who it has already dismissed as telling dumb jokes - got up and said, "Hey, didn't the Japanese lose that one?" He followed that with, "I'm sorry guys, it seems they must attend a screening of 'Rambo.'"


(One of the amusing things to me is that in the 1988 Sporting News Preview, Jimmy Johnson whined about their thug reputation being based on the then popular "Miami Vice" TV show - yet in this show JJ says he WANTS to play on that. Maybe he ought to develop a better memory if he's going to lie).

If your purpose is to tell history, get it right. If it's propaganda, at least admit that's what it is.
 

Aledinho

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1985 - they shamelessly run up the score on Notre Dame. Now I'll admit I laughed because it was the Irish. But this year is sort of a microcosm. They lose to Florida in the opener AGAIN and then get smoked by Tennessee in the Sugar Bowl after spending a month whining about why they should be number one. Two SEC teams, two Miami losses.

1986 - go unbeaten until the end and then Vinny T throws five picks to Penn State and the Canes lose.
Before the Fiesta Bowl in 1987, Paterno said he asked Majors for film on the defense he used against Miami the year before. Majors declined, but Paterno was still able to get a hold of the game film.

1992 - Apparently, the was no football that year. Everyone was on vacation.
 

selmaborntidefan

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Before the Fiesta Bowl in 1987, Paterno said he asked Majors for film on the defense he used against Miami the year before. Majors declined, but Paterno was still able to get a hold of the game film.

1992 - Apparently, the was no football that year. Everyone was on vacation.
Haven't heard that one but not surprised. Majors coached at Pitt against Paterno and was probably still mad at him over something.

The cruel irony? The defensive scheme was designed by Jerry Sandusky. Yikes.
 

bamamoss2

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Why watch crap about Miami? Exercise your freedom and avoid. I will always remember Miami as the thugs of college football. They will have a hard time ever convincing me they really want to change.
 

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