Final Verdict: Lou Holtz and Mark debate if AJ McCarron is the most valuable player

Re: Final Verdict:Lou Holtz and Mark debate if AJ. McCarron is the most valuable pla

TiderGreg said:

I would think that most successful people have this ability, to sell something, or hype it up. And not let others know what they're really thinking all the time.

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You don't know much about Dizzy, do you

Re: Final Verdict:Lou Holtz and Mark debate if AJ. McCarron is the most valuable pla

TiderGreg said:

No doubt. Coach Sumlin, who was mentioned as a USC candidate is Gene Chizic in my book until I see them with another QB. And Missouri had never had a consistent winning football team. But it is surprising they are leading the east. I am rooting for SC just for the sake of order.

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I agree both aTm and Mizzou will see drop off after their starting QBs leave. However, I wouldn't put Sumlin in the same category with Chizic. Sumlin was 45-17 at Houston and we all know Cheezio was 5-19 at Iowa State.

Re: Final Verdict:Lou Holtz and Mark debate if AJ. McCarron is the most valuable pla

If he really liked AJ there his table would have been drenched. LOL

Re: Final Verdict:Lou Holtz and Mark debate if AJ. McCarron is the most valuable pla

TiderGreg said:

No doubt. Coach Sumlin, who was mentioned as a USC candidate is Gene Chizic in my book until I see them with another QB. And Missouri had never had a consistent winning football team. But it is surprising they are leading the east. I am rooting for SC just for the sake of order.

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Sumlin is 10 times the HC that Chiclets ever dared to be....
Really? 59-26 since 2007 with a 12-2, 10-4 and 10-3 in 3 out of those four years. Not top tier numbers, but can't say they haven't consistently won, unless by consistently you mean historically over a longer period...but very few teams have.
Missouri didn't "get lucky" against Georgia...they have had their own share of injuries in the past, maybe now it's just that things are coming full circle. Without their starting QB, though, they may go into a tailspin. I didn't get to see the backup play.

Re: Final Verdict:Lou Holtz and Mark debate if AJ. McCarron is the most valuable pla

Lou and Mark are the "Skip Bayless and Stephen a Smith" of the college football world. They will usually take one side or the other and argue about it. You rarely see them agree, unless it is an obvious choice. It is "good" tv.


I guess Mark showed too much Bama love last year, that they said it was time for Lou to take that side.

Re: Final Verdict:Lou Holtz and Mark debate if AJ. McCarron is the most valuable pla

twofbyc said:

Sumlin is 10 times the HC that Chiclets ever dared to be....
Really? 59-26 since 2007 with a 12-2, 10-4 and 10-3 in 3 out of those four years. Not top tier numbers, but can't say they haven't consistently won, unless by consistently you mean historically over a longer period...but very few teams have.
Missouri didn't "get lucky" against Georgia...they have had their own share of injuries in the past, maybe now it's just that things are coming full circle. Without their starting QB, though, they may go into a tailspin. I didn't get to see the backup play.

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I do think Sumlin is better than Chizik, but I would also like to see what identity that team takes when Manziel is gone. It seemed that at Houston the offense was much more Air Raid than Sandlot.

As for Missouri, 6 games into the season they played their first real game (although Vandy is pretty physical these days, but seems to have regressed). They fell completely apart last year because they were a soft football team and they couldn't take the grind. As the rest of schedule catches up to them I expect the injuries will pile up again. I would not be surprised to see them beat Florida simply because their offense is so bad, but I see them dropping at least 2 games in the East plus TAMU and losing a few more players. On the flip side they look better than I expected them to be so far this season.

Will be pulling for Carolina hard.

Re: Final Verdict:Lou Holtz and Mark debate if AJ. McCarron is the most valuable pla

crimsonaudio said:

Nor would I - Chizik won an SEC and national championship.

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:biggrin2: Do you seriously think Cheezio is a better coach than Sumlin? I think not. *U caught lightening in a bottle with $cam. Johnny Money may be $cam 2.0, but I still think Sumlin has a better body of work than Cheezio. No way Sumlin gets the aTm job with a 5-19 record.

Re: Final Verdict:Lou Holtz and Mark debate if AJ. McCarron is the most valuable pla

B1GTide said:

Without AJ Alabama loses to aTm and is pretty much out of the national championship race.

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Alabama lost to Aggie and had to depend on others to get them in the title game. On that day, JF would've run it in late in the game.

Re: Final Verdict:Lou Holtz and Mark debate if AJ. McCarron is the most valuable pla

B1GTide said:

Without AJ, or a player of his caliber at QB, does Alabama win either of your last two championships? IMO, you would not have defeated LSU in the BCSCG, nor would you have come from behind to defeat LSU last year. Les Miles might be considered the best head coach in college football right now if not for AJ. Think about it.

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At the same time, he only scored three points vs LSU in round one. He was forced to play the first game with one arm tied behind his back, though.

Re: Final Verdict:Lou Holtz and Mark debate if AJ. McCarron is the most valuable pla

No doubt. Coach Sumlin, who was mentioned as a USC candidate is Gene Chizic in my book until I see them with another QB. And Missouri had never had a consistent winning football team. But it is surprising they are leading the east. I am rooting for SC just for the sake of order.

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No way. Sumlin has won everywhere he has been with multiple QB's

Sumlin is 10 times the HC that Chiclets ever dared to be....
Really? 59-26 since 2007 with a 12-2, 10-4 and 10-3 in 3 out of those four years. Not top tier numbers, but can't say they haven't consistently won, unless by consistently you mean historically over a longer period...but very few teams have

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I agree

Re: Final Verdict:Lou Holtz and Mark debate if AJ. McCarron is the most valuable pla

The magic of AJ is that he sets his ego aside for the betterment of the team. Most QBs in his situation would be thinking about putting up numbers, getting drafted number one, and winning a Heisman. I'm sure AJ has personal goals, but he has always made them second to the team. Not just any coach can handle the Alabama job, and not just any QB can handle the Alabama job. I think both are perfect for the situation.

Re: Final Verdict:Lou Holtz and Mark debate if AJ. McCarron is the most valuable pla

B1GTide said:

Without AJ Alabama loses to aTm and is pretty much out of the national championship race.

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Agreed.

Re: Final Verdict:Lou Holtz and Mark debate if AJ. McCarron is the most valuable pla

Lou reminds me of Coach Bryant talking about Pat Trammell: "He can't run, he can't throw, and he can't kick. All he knows how to do is win."

Re: Final Verdict:Lou Holtz and Mark debate if AJ. McCarron is the most valuable pla

If Lou had framed his argument as McCarron being the most under-valued player in CFB, he would have won the decision. If AJ doesn't get picked in the first round, someone is getting a bargain.

Speaking of which, did anyone see the talking head NFL draft picker toward the end of the game. He spoke for 3 minutes about how AJ isn't a very strong passer. While he was talking, AJ completed 3 spectacular passes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJxSs9EbvsI

Re: Final Verdict:Lou Holtz and Mark debate if AJ. McCarron is the most valuable pla

Honest question: If Alabama and A&M swapped QB's at the begining of last season:

1. Would Alabama have won the MNC last year?
2. Would Alabama have lost to A&M at home last year?
3. Would Alabama have won at Kyle Field this year?
4. Would A&M be ranked in the top ten at any point in either year?

Re: Final Verdict:Lou Holtz and Mark debate if AJ. McCarron is the most valuable pla

harleyspoon said:

Honest question: If Alabama and A&M swapped QB's at the begining of last season:

1. Would Alabama have won the MNC last year?
2. Would Alabama have lost to A&M at home last year?
3. Would Alabama have won at Kyle Field this year?
4. Would A&M be ranked in the top ten at any point in either year?

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The answers are unknowable. One thing I can be sure of is that Saban would have handled him much different than Sumlin. I am not sure under Saban he would have seen the field holding the ball the way he does when he takes off running, throwing the ball into the spots he does and improvising away from a Saban type game plan. He may have worked into Saban's system and been just as successful in a different way, but that is unknowable as well.

As for who is most important to their team, I think it's a slight edge to JM. As to who has been a more successful overall quarterback, I don't think it is a contest.