Thoughts from our liberal brethren on the recent events regarding Obamacare.

GulfCoastTider

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I think this is a realistic evaluation of the system as it is now should nothing in the future change.

Right now key portions of the law were obstructed (not implementing exchanges and Medicare expansion) by the Republican governors and legislatures at the state level and we are seeing what happens when a massive disinformation program affects people's opinions. Kentucky will eventually be an example of the benefits had states been a little more receptive.

Can it be fixed? Only after it gets really bad in terms of insurance companies posting massive losses or some government ensured minimum expense clause (I'd be surprised if one doesn't exist) kicks in and the tax payers pick up even more of the tab.
I tried to make my post as factual and non-partisan as I could (I acknowledge the partisan comment in the last statement, but even that is factual).

I don't see the issues facing the system as the result of obstructionism. The law was written based on the assumption that if states didn't set up their own exchanges, the federal exchange system would pick up the slack. That assumption was heroic when it was made but it could prove to be tragic as time unfolds.

I think the risk going forward is a product of the calculated risk taken by the program's architects: That the millenials would enroll in sufficient numbers and the mandates would produce enough healthy enrollees to allow the insurers to accept higher risk enrollees, comply with the coverage mandates and balance the equations.

People are always going to make purchasing decisions based on their own economic self interests. If I need/want it and I can afford it, I will buy it. If I don't need it, don't want it or I can put off purchasing it until I will afford/want/need it (like, on the way to the ER), then I won't get it. That is, so long as the penalty for not playing is less painful than the cost of playing.

I don't think the architects fully took that into account.

Worse, I think the current move to extend enrollment deadlines and suspend the individual mandate will make the likelihood of a downward spiral even greater. It's not partisanship or ideology at work here--it's economics and actuarial science.

Edit to add: Insurers are very good at setting rates that minimize their risk exposure, and they will take every uncertainty into account when doing so. The more they sense unforeseen risk in their pools, the more likely they'll increase rates to minimize or mitigate that risk. There are subsidies built into the law that allow them to receive a credit from the government because of risk-based losses, but they'd just as soon let the market bear the cost of the additional risk and not have to worry about filing a ream of paperwork with HHS.

Response to earlier posts, not GCT follows.

Regarding the massive conspiracy about keeping your own plans. Yes, industry practice usually tweaks a plan every year, which with the way the law was written they (WH) probably knew that these plans wouldn't be qualified to be grandfathered. This was a pretty big problem with selling something that wasn't likely to happen.

Am I outraged, not really. As a realist nothing is ever that simple. Should I be outraged? Maybe. There are a lot of people who have been taken advantage of by the government by not being very smart. Nothing much changes.
I'm actually quite cynical about the paucity of grandfathered individual market plans. HHS wrote those regulations, knowing full well that the fewer grandfathered plans existed, the more consumers would be driven to the exchanges and the more likely that the calculated risk would pay off.
 
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Tide1986

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I tried to make my post as factual and non-partisan as I could (I acknowledge the partisan comment in the last statement, but even that is factual).

I don't see the issues facing the system as the result of obstructionism. The law was written based on the assumption that if states didn't set up their own exchanges, the federal exchange system would pick up the slack. That assumption was heroic when it was made but it could prove to be tragic as time unfolds.

I think the risk going forward is a product of the calculated risk taken by the program's architects: That the millenials would enroll in sufficient numbers and the mandates would produce enough healthy enrollees to allow the insurers to accept higher risk enrollees, comply with the coverage mandates and balance the equations.

People are always going to make purchasing decisions based on their own economic self interests. If I need/want it and I can afford it, I will buy it. If I don't need it, don't want it or I can put off purchasing it until I will afford/want/need it (like, on the way to the ER), then I won't get it. That is, so long as the penalty for not playing is less painful than the cost of playing.

I don't think the architects fully took that into account.

Worse, I think the current move to extend enrollment deadlines and suspend the individual mandate will make the likelihood of a downward spiral even greater. It's not partisanship or ideology at work here--it's economics and actuarial science.

Edit to add: Insurers are very good at setting rates that minimize their risk exposure, and they will take every uncertainty into account when doing so. The more they sense unforeseen risk in their pools, the more likely they'll increase rates to minimize or mitigate that risk. There are subsidies built into the law that allow them to receive a credit from the government because of risk-based losses, but they'd just as soon let the market bear the cost of the additional risk and not have to worry about filing a ream of paperwork with HHS.



I'm actually quite cynical about the paucity of grandfathered individual market plans. HHS wrote those regulations, knowing full well that the fewer grandfathered plans existed, the more consumers would be driven to the exchanges and the more likely that the calculated risk would pay off.
I assume those whose policies are being canceled are generally healthier risks so it'd be in the best interest of the insurers to shove these better risks into the exchange pool. Also, I'm still mulling over the impact of those States that refused to expand Medicaid. It seems that those who would otherwise qualify for an expanded Medicaid program would not be the best health risks due to socioeconomic factors so excluding them would seemingly help Obamacare if they remain uninsured.
 

GulfCoastTider

Hall of Fame
I assume those whose policies are being canceled are generally healthier risks so it'd be in the best interest of the insurers to shove these better risks into the exchange pool. Also, I'm still mulling over the impact of those States that refused to expand Medicaid. It seems that those who would otherwise qualify for an expanded Medicaid program would not be the best health risks due to socioeconomic factors so excluding them would seemingly help Obamacare if they remain uninsured.
Please keep in mind the fact that the employer mandate was postponed.

All of those having canceled policies are in the individual insurance market, where all mandates theoretically still apply.

Next year, as employers review their obligations under the new regs, more cancellations are likely.

That further increases the risk in the pool, and further increases the likelihood of "sticker shock" when employees who get their coverage from their employer see the cost.

Again, not partisanship. Not ideology. Just economics and actuarial science.
 
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Tide1986

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as a side issue: the supreme court has ruled multiple times that corporations are people. so why do they get a delayed mandate yet i am forced to pay now? isnt that unequal protection under the law?
Since corporations are people too, it also looks like they get to have free exercise of religion as well (reference rulings around Obamacare and contraceptives).
 

cuda.1973

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To be perfectly honest, I am still confused by all the anger and shock directed at the feds because insurers are canceling some policies. These cancellations of grandfathered policies are not required by anything in the ACA or the federal regs implementing it, and the expiration and termination of individual/group policies and even complete lines of business by insurers is not uncommon - in many markets this occurs at a fairly predictable rate too.
WRONG!

All plans must now conform to the mandated minimum insurance level. Plans that do not offer that level (i.e., catastrophic plans) can not be offered.* A great deal of the cancelled plans fall into this category.

And...............

The grandfather clause goes away, if there is >$100 difference, between the existing plan, and the new mandated one. Since the new ones have to carry a higher level of coverage, the cost has to go up, and therefore loses out on being grandfathered.

As for the scum-sucking insurance companies.............

Do any of you remember the furor over the ill-conceived HillaryCare? The insurance companies were against it, and it never came to be. Now, they are all behind this. Can anyone guess why?

Yes, it is because everyone now has to buy insurance! And more expensive insurance. Why wouldn't they support it? (You don't need to be an economics perfesser at UNA to figure that one out.)

So, some of you don't seem to care, or think it is a big deal. Maybe you should read the fine print, and see how much the costs go up, after a few years. We'll see how you feel then.

And it is only a few folks who are getting screwed now? Just wait until corporate America has to comply, and all of their plans don't qualify. Just wait................

* = The irony is only folks under 30, or certain low-income folks, can buy a catastrophic care plan. Probably due to "well, we have to spread the risk out, to the largest number of people, to keep the size of the risk pool manageable." I get that, so no lecture on how insurance works is needed. The fact so many people had one (because they obviously wanted one) is good enough reason for me why this sort of reform should be handled at the state level. Just as car insurance is handled. It can not, and will not, work at the Federal level. Period.
 

cuda.1973

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Excepting things like preventive care (which are typically de minimis in cost anyway), free market insurance is essentially true insurance.
OK, this is what cracks me up: they are going to pay for preventative care.

WHOOPEE!

Ok, so they will pay for a $75-125 office visit, and maybe some pointless lab tests. Now, compare that to how much your premiums are, and what your maximum out-of-pocket costs are capped at.

And this is going to make a difference in how much money is left in your wallet? Give me a break.

"Yes, but Cuda, you of all people should know that early diagnosis can lead to a better outcome. So, why are you against it?"

It isn't that I am against it: it just doesn't always work! In my case, a strong anecdotal case can be made that I was walking around, with cancer, for somewhere between 3-7 years. Depending on which version you believe. Wanna guess how many "preventative visits" I had? X-rays, blood work, etc., etc., blah, blah............and no one found it. (None of us even came close to guessing it, even though it was obvious "Gee, there is something wrong with this guy. Dammiffino what it is...............")

So, to me..............it is a straw man. It may have some merit. But, to me, it is just a carrot, being dangled, to let you know the Big Brother cares about you.

Big Brother needs to butt out of my health care (and yours, as well), and go back to doing what it seems to do best: wiretap the leaders of our foreign allies!
 

cuda.1973

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The Court has no obligation to consider presidential rhetoric in its deliberations.

But I believe the intent all along was to create a permanent institution to transfer wealth and further solidify the liberal voting base. Tax is just a dirty word they wanted to avoid being associated with.
I forget the guy's name............and what post he could not get confirmation for..............(senior citizen moment), but he gave a somewhat infamous speech, in which he clearly stated that (paraphrasing) "health care reform, by definition, must be redistributive in nature.................health care reform is redistribution of wealth."

He made the point twice, just so you knew he really meant it. And, they do. Make no mistake about it. It has nothing to do with poor schlumps, like me, who can't get insurance (on their own)*, because of the "pre-existing condition" crapola. So, conceding the point that problem needs to be addressed, trying to do it at the Federal level, and making a muck of the entire health care industry, is sheer folly. They know it won't work, and when it (spectacularly) fails, they will seize the moment, and nationalize the whole shootin' match.

And if think they will never deny any claims.................you probably do not know anyone who deals with Medicare. In which case, you are in for a big surprise!

* = In theory.........I could get a (corporate) job. Not happening. Or, get married. (Mrs. Cuda actually dangled that carrot, to entice me. Then she looked at how much it cost to add a spouse!!!!!!!!!!) So, in theory only! :D
 

cuda.1973

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I know at least 20 people (I know that is small and anecdotal, but there are enough to have created a media firestorm) who have plans that should be continued based on what you are saying, and grandfathered based on what the administration said, but are being discontinued. The insurers as specifically citing regulatory changes at the federal level as the reasons for discontinuing them. I can accept that some of the insurers are being opportunistic, but there are far too many occurrences for the majority to be the case.
Let's take the best, and smallest, anecdote:

Some ditzy, immature, smarmy female zealot, who attends one of the most expensive grad schools around, complains that the university's plan will not pay for her $9-12/mo birth control pills. Gee, with all the $$$$$ she plunks down on tuition, probably has the latest and greatest iPhone, and who knows what other iGoodie (that I can not afford), but whines about free birth control pills. And the media makes a firestorm out of that.

But, millions of folks get screwed out of their insurance plans..........................crickets.

So, where is the outrage? One bimbo ("That's right, I called her a bimbo......deal with it") (That is my Mark Levin impersonation. No idea if he ever said that. "Celebrity voices are impersonated...............poorly.") whines about she won't get free birth control, and that is all we hear about, for months. Millions get screwed................it is all our fault, because we took what Kamerad Santa Klaus said literally.
 

NationalTitles18

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I forget the guy's name............and what post he could not get confirmation for..............(senior citizen moment), but he gave a somewhat infamous speech, in which he clearly stated that (paraphrasing) "health care reform, by definition, must be redistributive in nature.................health care reform is redistribution of wealth."

He made the point twice, just so you knew he really meant it. And, they do. Make no mistake about it. It has nothing to do with poor schlumps, like me, who can't get insurance (on their own)*, because of the "pre-existing condition" crapola. So, conceding the point that problem needs to be addressed, trying to do it at the Federal level, and making a muck of the entire health care industry, is sheer folly. They know it won't work, and when it (spectacularly) fails, they will seize the moment, and nationalize the whole shootin' match.

And if think they will never deny any claims.................you probably do not know anyone who deals with Medicare. In which case, you are in for a big surprise!

* = In theory.........I could get a (corporate) job. Not happening. Or, get married. (Mrs. Cuda actually dangled that carrot, to entice me. Then she looked at how much it cost to add a spouse!!!!!!!!!!) So, in theory only! :D
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/health/july-dec11/berwick_08-11.html
 

cuda.1973

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Another anecdote................

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304527504579171710423780446

A side note.............

Gall bladder cancer is one of those that no headway has been made. The 5-year survival rate has been in the low single digits, for as long as I can remember. Lost a buddy to it. I feel for the person in this article. Their chance of survival is virtually nil. Even with all the insurance in the world.

If you look at the occupations that have a high incidence of this, you will find all use tons of VOC solvents. Draw your own conclusions. (My buddy designed and built race engines.)
 

Tide1986

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Another anecdote................

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304527504579171710423780446

A side note.............

Gall bladder cancer is one of those that no headway has been made. The 5-year survival rate has been in the low single digits, for as long as I can remember. Lost a buddy to it. I feel for the person in this article. Their chance of survival is virtually nil. Even with all the insurance in the world.

If you look at the occupations that have a high incidence of this, you will find all use tons of VOC solvents. Draw your own conclusions. (My buddy designed and built race engines.)

This is the only way that government can provide health care to everyone:

Take away people's ability to control their medical-coverage choices and they may die. I guess that's a highly effective way to control medical costs. Perhaps that's the point.
 

Tide1986

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Here's a humorous little article for your afternoon enjoyment:

The Obamacare Speech He Never Gave

So that’s why I wanted to come here today, St. Paul. I wanted to tell you the hard truths. I know you can handle them. [Isolated clapping.] I know you will still support my plan, which, admittedly, is a little complicated. But we put a man on the moon! There’s no way we’re going to mess up a health-care law. Not on my watch.
 

Tide1986

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I know that I'm being my usual insensitive self; nevertheless, this story on NPR really hacked me off. The producers intended the story to convey the positive impacts of the ACA, but I think they unwittingly demonstrated the dark side of government handouts.

Colorado Couple Finds Relief with Obamacare

At the beginning of October she checked out Colorado's insurance exchange and found the exact same policy from the same insurer for only $832 a month. "It's dropping us down about $1,100 a month. We can retire. We can go fishing. We can actually see a future," says Petersen.

Becoming part of an insurance pool helped Petersen reduce her cost. The federal law also forbids insurance companies from charging more for pre-existing conditions. That saved her a lot. And federal tax credits brought the cost down even further.
It's nice to know that taxpayers can fund the Petersen's early retirement and fishing trips. I guess having productive citizens is no longer in our country's future.

Edit: My brief message to NPR. I doubt it'll be read on the air.

Well, I know Mr. Brady intended for this story to reflect positively on the ACA, but I would like to point out that Lela & Mike Petersen will be enjoying their early retirement and fishing trips on the backs of taxpayers. [Sarcasm] Wouldn't it be great if the government could send us all checks so we could quit working and enjoy a leisurely life of fishing? [End Sarcasm]
 
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