Today is the 50th Anniversary since JFK was murdered in Dallas

Recorded press conference with emergency room doctors at Parkland the day of the shooting stating the throat wound was an entry wound. They testified to the Warren Commission that it was an exit wound. Dallas officials stated that removing Kennedy's body from Texas before autopsy was illegal under Texas law. Feds moved it anyway. Autopsy at Bethesda was conducted by pathologists who had very little experience in conducting autopsies. They were upper level administrators at Bethesda. After completing the autopsy on Friday, the had pathologist called the emergency room doctors the next day. To his chagrin they had totally missed the throat wound on Kennedy as it was impossible for them to re-examine. Throat wound was hidden by a tracheotomy which gives even more credence that the throat wound was an entry wound. Anyway head doctor conducting autopsy burned his notes and autopsy report and created a new report including the throat wound that he never examined. All kinds of military brass overseeing the autopsy. Enough to cast at least some doubt?
Fishy Fishy!


Sent from my iPhone
 

TIDE-HSV

Senior Administrator
Staff member
Oct 13, 1999
84,527
39,616
437
Huntsville, AL,USA
I was at NYU in graduate law school, studying taxation. One of my professors was called and participated as a member of the Warren Commission. When he returned, he faced a blizzard of questions, quite a few of which he had no cogent answer for...
 

selmaborntidefan

TideFans Legend
Mar 31, 2000
36,432
29,735
287
54
Your post is a microcosm of the problems with actually believing a conspiracy theory. Before I proceed let me say this: you have my empathy as far as WANTING a sufficient cause for the President's killing. I'm convinced most of the conspiracy thinking is undergirded by that motive - a sense of propotion. Nevertheless, let me resopnd to a number of points.

Your post is a microcosm of much of what is wrong with the conspiracy theory.



Recorded press conference with emergency room doctors at Parkland the day of the shooting stating the throat wound was an entry wound. They testified to the Warren Commission that it was an exit wound.
And you seriously think there is a comparison between ER doctors in the moments after working feverishly to save the leader of the free world's life and commenting instantaneously upon it and those same doctors having looked at it calmly later? And by doctors, are you seriously suggesting EVERY SINGLE doctor working on him? It was two doctors, Perry and Clark out of an entire life-saving medical team. Furthermore, trauma room specialists ARE NOT forensic pathologists who specialize in such things as entrance/exit wounds.


One of the things the doctors ALSO said was that the throat wound MIGHT have been caused by a fragment from the head wound. Wanna know why they thought the throat was an ENTRANCE wound? Because they NEVER TURNED KENNEDY OVER and saw the ENTRANCE wound in the back.

Obviously then their opinions would change after more thorough investigation as is true of ANY medical professional.


My point is not that you're wrong - it's that you're focusing on distractions. Keep in mind that the JFK murder is unquestionably the most investigated murder in world history. And you know what? If a guy killed down the street from you in his house had HIS murder investigated with the thoroughness of the investigators of JFK's death there would be just a many things that didn't make sense ("His wife was normally home but that night she wasn't." Only in the JFK case you take that tiny fact and accuse her of being involved with it - that's exactly how the conspiracy argument works).


Dallas officials stated that removing Kennedy's body from Texas before autopsy was illegal under Texas law.
Feds moved it anyway.
At the direction of Jackie Kennedy. And it had been cleared the legal authority, too.


Autopsy at Bethesda was conducted by pathologists who had very little experience in conducting autopsies. They were upper level administrators at Bethesda. After completing the autopsy on Friday, the had pathologist called the emergency room doctors the next day. To his chagrin they had totally missed the throat wound on Kennedy as it was impossible for them to re-examine. Throat wound was hidden by a tracheotomy which gives even more credence that the throat wound was an entry wound. Anyway head doctor conducting autopsy burned his notes and autopsy report and created a new report including the throat wound that he never examined. All kinds of military brass overseeing the autopsy. Enough to cast at least some doubt?
[/QUOTE]

Unadulterated hogwash - and precisely WHY I reject the conspiracy theory. You're reciting lines here from Oliver Stone. Your allegation of military brass overseeing the autopsy is both amusing and unproven.

I'm trying to figure out how it was they had teams of doctors at every hospital in the DC area - since Jackie Kennedy selected Bethesda. Again, what is amusing is your finding "sinister" reasons for things - but you only hold that as sinister because you are already ASSUMING a conspiracy happened. You would not find much of this sinister otherwise.

This goes on in everyday life and nobody says anything.


The facts are these: none of what you show here changes the fact that Oswald was AT THE SCENE, his palm print was on the weapon, he LEFT the scene and ran away, killed a cop and in a huff was tracked down in a movie theatre. What was Oswald's alibi? Amazingly enough, none of you ever asks that question.


The problem I have here is that both sides can play the game you're playing here - but only one side keeps standing on the soapbox and indicting by innuendo.

Where are the other bullet(s) if there were more than three? (You see, EVERY conspiracy theory virtually mandates four shots). Amazingly enough, the conspiracy side NEVER gives a coherent answer to this.

Why does the autopsy and REPEAT FINDINGS show an ENTRANCE wound from behind? Groden tries to say these are fakes. Of course, Groden is the same guy who testified under oath in the OJ Simpson trial that THIRTY DIFFERENT photos of Simpson wearing Bruno Magli shoes were all fakes (I'll stop to let you finish laughing at the absurdity of that).

If there was a conspiracy, Oswald certainly was interrogated enough to hand over anyone involved and maybe get a lesser sentence. But he didn't. Why?

Why is it that ALL evidence that has ever been honestly exposed as FAKE comes ONLY from the conspiracy side?

Why did Oswald kill Tippitt? I mean, this is HUGE here. He had NO REASON to kill Tippitt unless he felt he was about to get caught, did he? And there's no disputing he did it. Ballistics matched it exclusviely to his gun - and he had that gun on him in the Texas Theatre. There were also MULTIPLE eyewitnesses to the case - yet the conspiracy side focuses only upon one who happened to be the furthest away from the scene (Aquila Clemons). However, I would note that ballistics is far more persuasive evidence than eyewitnesses, who often contradict (even though "tall man" and "short guy" can be the same person depending upon the perspective of the witness).

In response to your rhetorical questions and suggestions - I give you a dead body with bullets matched to the killer's gun.


Pointing out "this witness said this but this said that" is fine - but it doesn't trump the ballistics.
 

BamaPokerplayer

All-American
Oct 10, 2004
3,112
149
82
So here is what we got. Lone gun man takes down the most powerful person on the planet by himself and is offed before he can talk.

The most powerful person on the planet is: treated by crappy doctors in haste, understandable, given a very crappy crappy autopsy, not so understandable, given one the worst investigations in the history of the world, with people JFK fired and appointed by a person who had the most to gain from keeping everything the truth from coming out. One will have to forgive me for not trusting big brother and big money on this one. As already stated JFK's body wasn't even dry yet and we are going to war, but LHO prints were on a gun and he killed a cop, as was proven at his trial oh wait....
 

RammerJammer14

Hall of Fame
Aug 18, 2007
14,511
6,521
187
UA
I would actually suggest that an assassination in which all the pressing questions were neatly tied up would be worthy of a conspiracy theory as opposed to one with a bunch of "loose ends". Perfection means planning. Loose ends are genuine.
 

RammerJammer14

Hall of Fame
Aug 18, 2007
14,511
6,521
187
UA
Anyways, what is the point of "silencing" Oswald if the silencer gets caught? Would they not both have knowledge of the employer? If it was a conspiracy "they" would have capped Oswald where no one could see, which should be easy since "they" have inside knowledge on the whole deal.
 

selmaborntidefan

TideFans Legend
Mar 31, 2000
36,432
29,735
287
54
So here is what we got. Lone gun man takes down the most powerful person on the planet by himself and is offed before he can talk.
So a 12-hour interrogation to you is "before he can talk?"

(Shakes head in disbelief)

The most powerful person on the planet is: treated by crappy doctors in haste,
No, doctors who were trying in vain to save both his life and Connally's life. ER doctors on the spot do the ABCs, they don't busy themselves with forensic determinations.

understandable, given a very crappy crappy autopsy, not so understandable,
Debatable. What is an autopsy for? To find the cause of death.

Are you seriously suggesting we don't know what caused Kennedy's death?

Now that being said - the autopsy in this case should have been better but there have been worse in other cases. Even a number of the pathologists who basically agree with the WC findings are not thrilled with the autopsy.


given one the worst investigations in the history of the world,
Not true. Saying it wasn't as good as it could have been is not the same as saying it was awful.


with people JFK fired
Only Allen Dulles was fired by JFK. Are you suggesting that he kidnapped the brains of the other guys or subjected them to waterboarding or some other such nonsense?

Besides - that goes on in Washington all the time. How often do guys fired from job A wind up in job B?


and appointed by a person who had the most to gain from keeping everything the truth from coming out.
And, of course, the Republican members of the committee who wanted their guy to win (Gerald Ford, Sherman Cooper) would go along with this, right?

One will have to forgive me for not trusting big brother and big money on this one.
But you do trust discredited critics of the same?

As already stated JFK's body wasn't even dry yet and we are going to war,
The Gulf of Tonkin incident didn't happen until August of 1964. The escalation didn't happen until 1965. We already had advisers in Vietnam since the Eisenhower administration. You're ASSUMING JFK would have acted a certain way but have no reason to think that.


but LHO prints were on a gun and he killed a cop,
Which is more evidence than you just presented in that rhetorical "he said this but did that."

I note you don't even try to contest those FACTS. And those FACTS point irrefutably to one of two things: 1) either Oswald did it; or 2) he was framed.

as was proven at his trial oh wait....
But the fact he didn't have a trial doesn't change the evidence, either - does it?
 

selmaborntidefan

TideFans Legend
Mar 31, 2000
36,432
29,735
287
54
Anyways, what is the point of "silencing" Oswald if the silencer gets caught? Would they not both have knowledge of the employer? If it was a conspiracy "they" would have capped Oswald where no one could see, which should be easy since "they" have inside knowledge on the whole deal.
This is the same flaw in the "hit squad" that has somehow gone around and wiped out all of these people without leaving even one shell accidentally. Keep in mind that SEAL Team 6 couldn't even get into Pakistan and out without losing an entire helicopter.....yet supposedly a hit squad has killed about 100 witnesses to the JFK assassination in order to "silence" them. Never mind that this never reduces the number of folks who know about it. And never mind that MANY of those killed were believers in the lone gunman theory (for example, the liquidation of House Rep Hale Boggs in a 1972 plane crash in Alaska).
 

DzynKingRTR

TideFans Legend
Dec 17, 2003
42,213
29,371
287
Vinings, ga., usa
if oswald as offed to shut him up, why wasn't ruby killed to shut him up, and then the guy who shot ruby gets killed and then the guy who shot the guy who shot ruby, and then the guy who shot the guy who shot the guy who shot ruby, and then the guy who shot the guy who shot the guy who shot the who shot the guy................
 

lazlohollyfeld

1st Team
Jul 20, 2010
828
0
0
Allen, TX
if oswald as offed to shut him up, why wasn't ruby killed to shut him up, and then the guy who shot ruby gets killed and then the guy who shot the guy who shot ruby, and then the guy who shot the guy who shot the guy who shot ruby, and then the guy who shot the guy who shot the guy who shot the who shot the guy................
It's called omerta.
 

RhodeIslandRed

All-SEC
Dec 9, 2005
1,517
9
62
I think the problem with the WC isn't that it's not implausible or internally inconsistent. However, there are too many circumstantial events that raises new questions. Had there been a cover-up, there are not very many groups that can pull it off. Mafia and Soviets are not among them.
 

Bamaro

TideFans Legend
Oct 19, 2001
26,555
10,616
287
Jacksonville, Md USA
if oswald as offed to shut him up, why wasn't ruby killed to shut him up, and then the guy who shot ruby gets killed and then the guy who shot the guy who shot ruby, and then the guy who shot the guy who shot the guy who shot ruby, and then the guy who shot the guy who shot the guy who shot the who shot the guy................
Exactly.
I saw a show on History Channel last night showing why Ruby as a hit man just doesn't add up:

Saturday afternoon Dallas police publicly announce Oswald to be transferred 10AM Sunday.
Crowd of reporters begins to form and wait prior to 10AM at Dallas lockup.
Interragators keep questioning Oswald well past 10AM
10AM Sunday, Ruby is at home watching TV.
Around 10:20 or so Ruby receives call from one of his strippers who needs money because club was closed all weekend.
Ruby showers, gets dressed, coat, tie, hat, money to send to stripper, 38 in pocket.
Ruby gets his dog, drives to Western Union office to wire the money.
Ruby stands casually in line and completes wire transfer transaction (transaction is time stamped)
Ruby walks out of Western Union office and sees the crowd mulling around waiting for Oswald transfer.
Ruby walks over and as armored truck which was suppose to carry Oswald goes up ramp and leaves because it wouldn't fit, Ruby casually walks down ramp about 11:20AM just as Oswald is brought down the hall.
Spur of the moment decision, Ruby lunges forward and fires 1 shot into Oswald's gut at 11:21AM.

Sure doesn't seem like the actions of a paid hit man.
 

lazlohollyfeld

1st Team
Jul 20, 2010
828
0
0
Allen, TX
Exactly.
I saw a show on History Channel last night showing why Ruby as a hit man just doesn't add up:

Saturday afternoon Dallas police publicly announce Oswald to be transferred 10AM Sunday.
Crowd of reporters begins to form and wait prior to 10AM at Dallas lockup.
Interragators keep questioning Oswald well past 10AM
10AM Sunday, Ruby is at home watching TV.
Around 10:20 or so Ruby receives call from one of his strippers who needs money because club was closed all weekend.
Ruby showers, gets dressed, coat, tie, hat, money to send to stripper, 38 in pocket.
Ruby gets his dog, drives to Western Union office to wire the money.
Ruby stands casually in line and completes wire transfer transaction (transaction is time stamped)
Ruby walks out of Western Union office and sees the crowd mulling around waiting for Oswald transfer.
Ruby walks over and as armored truck which was suppose to carry Oswald goes up ramp and leaves because it wouldn't fit, Ruby casually walks down ramp about 11:20AM just as Oswald is brought down the hall.
Spur of the moment decision, Ruby lunges forward and fires 1 shot into Oswald's gut at 11:21AM.

Sure doesn't seem like the actions of a paid hit man.
The House Select Committee on Assassinations disagrees with you. From pages 157-158 of the Final Report:

"Ruby's shooting of Oswald was not a spontaneous act, in that it involved at least some premeditation. Similarly, the committee believed it was less likely that Ruby entered the police basement without assistance, even though the assistance may have been provided with no knowledge of Ruby's intentions… The committee was troubled by the apparently unlocked doors along the stairway route and the removal of security guards from the area of the garage nearest the stairway shortly before the shooting… There is also evidence that the Dallas Police Department withheld relevant information from the Warren Commission concerning Ruby's entry to the scene of the Oswald transfer."
 

Crimson1967

Hall of Fame
Nov 22, 2011
18,734
9,918
187
Why would Ruby agree to kill Oswald, knowing he was facing life in prison if he did. Its not like he had a way to escape.
 

selmaborntidefan

TideFans Legend
Mar 31, 2000
36,432
29,735
287
54
Why would Ruby agree to kill Oswald, knowing he was facing life in prison if he did. Its not like he had a way to escape.
Back then he would have been facing the death penalty in Texas, which is what his sentence was. He beat the chair with cancer.
 

selmaborntidefan

TideFans Legend
Mar 31, 2000
36,432
29,735
287
54
The House Select Committee on Assassinations disagrees with you. From pages 157-158 of the Final Report:

"Ruby's shooting of Oswald was not a spontaneous act, in that it involved at least some premeditation. Similarly, the committee believed it was less likely that Ruby entered the police basement without assistance, even though the assistance may have been provided with no knowledge of Ruby's intentions… The committee was troubled by the apparently unlocked doors along the stairway route and the removal of security guards from the area of the garage nearest the stairway shortly before the shooting… There is also evidence that the Dallas Police Department withheld relevant information from the Warren Commission concerning Ruby's entry to the scene of the Oswald transfer."
But this is isolated from the bigger picture.

If Ruby was a paid hit man, he would have killed Oswald Friday night when he was acting like a reporter and in the same room. A hit man wouldn't know he was going to get a second chance.

If one wishes to say he did then you have to explain how Ruby was tipped off and now you have at least one other person involved, etc, etc etc
 

alabama mike1

All-American
Jul 12, 2013
2,694
389
107
Ohio
I think Oswald made the fatal shot that killed JFK. Many people forget that LHO, was planning on killing a high ranking military man earlier in 63 I believe.
 

Latest threads

TideFans.shop : 2024 Madness!

TideFans.shop - Get YOUR Bama Gear HERE!”></a>
<br />

<!--/ END TideFans.shop & item link \-->
<p style= Purchases made through our TideFans.shop and Amazon.com links may result in a commission being paid to TideFans.