AJ McCarron - Pat Trammel comparison: For the Greybeards

bamachile · Nov 21, 2013

I thought of starting this thread about a week ago and forgot about it, but CA's thread today woke this back up in my mind.

From this article which CA posted in this thread comes this quote:

Ford, the historian, likens -McCarron in style and personality to Pat Trammell, who guided the Crimson Tide to an 11-0-0 season in 1961, the first of Bear Bryant's six national championships. All poise and precision, Trammell -- who died of cancer at 28 -- was a Bryant favorite, a born leader who chose medical school over the NFL.

Pat Trammell was before my time (really, Namath and Stabler were, but I remember them as pros). The legends extended well into my childhood, though, and AJ now seems eerily reminiscent of the stories I always heard about Pat.

So these questions I pose to the old-timers among us:
Does Coach Saban's relationship with AJ remind you of Coach Bryant and Pat Trammell?
Does AJ compare well with Pat?

I'm all ears, and I imagine a few others my age and younger are as well. Please tell us what you think of the comparison.

Thanks in advance.

Chukker Veteran · Nov 21, 2013

I live in Decatur. Dale Trammel, Pat's brother who also lives in Decatur, had funeral services for his wife yesterday. The Trammel family is solid gold, a real asset to Bama's history.

AlistarWills · Nov 21, 2013

Grew up in the days of Perkins, never really knew who Bryant was other than the stories, but the stories I hear of Trammell and Brayant and who Trammell was the only person in the world who would argue with Bryant, even cursed at him, makes me see this in AJ. I think Saban really respects him, partly because he's not afraid to state his point of view and try to defend it.

Alasippi · Nov 21, 2013

Trammel was probably the original definition of "Game manager". He wasn't fast, wasn't a great passer, nor runner, but he rarely ever made a turnover or mistake and he was possibly the greatest leader Bama ever had on the football field. He could also be tough on other players. I talked to Billy Richardson once, who played on that 61 team, and he said Trammel would crawl your butt in the huddle if you missed an assignment or a block. Said he was like, "Bryant playing Quarterback. He demanded that you do your job the best you possibly could on every single play".
That's probably why Bryant respected him so much.
A.J. is much more rounded as a QB, and more refined as a passer. He's also a great leader so I could see where someone might think they are alike, but, to me, they're actually pretty different. They just share a few common characteristics.
sip

jabcmb · Nov 21, 2013

From what I remember, yes the relationship between the HC and QB seems similar in both cases. Bryant always spoke very highly of Trammell and his leadership. Many of the Bryant books reinforce this. Some who played with Trammell could certainly address this better, since I was a young observer at the time. Today, with McCarron still playing, I see a solid respect between him and Saban.
Your other question regarding how Trammell and AJ compare, I assume you mean as team leaders. I don't think there is any doubt there. Both coaches entrusted these young men with great responsibility, and they flourished as field leaders when given the opportunity.

FitToBeTide · Nov 21, 2013

Here are a couple of links, one from Tidefans back on '06, with some exchanges on Pat's legend and a link for another story about him.

CLICK and CLICK AGAIN

BigBama76 · Nov 21, 2013

Trammell was no where near as talented as AJ and AJ is no where near as tough or as much a leader as Trammell was. Trammell was as tough and had as much will as Coach Bryant. Rumor has it that Trammell told the other QB's that he WOULD be the QB so pretty much back off. He was apparently pretty intimidating.

TIDE-HSV · Nov 21, 2013

I think the comparisons are a bit overdone. There's not a good way to compare athletic performance because we rarely passed back then and all players had to play both ways...

Ldlane · Nov 21, 2013

Did you ever notice how much they DON'T look alike? :conf2:

BradtheImpaler · Nov 21, 2013

TIDE-HSV said:
I think the comparisons are a bit overdone. There's not a good way to compare athletic performance because we rarely passed back then and all players had to play both ways...

Ain't that the truth... Trammell's first and second year's passing stats look about like an average day for a typical spread offense quarterback.

bamachile · Nov 22, 2013

I appreciate the feedback. The fact that the game and athletes have changed so much is the largest reason I wanted to hear from those who saw both first hand - there's no way to make any sort of quantifiable comparison. The wealth of personal knowledge on this site is impressive, and I love to hear the stories and comparisons from those whose memories reach further back than mine.

Thanks again,
BC

Tideflyer · Nov 22, 2013

BigBama76 said:
Trammell was no where near as talented as AJ and AJ is no where near as tough or as much a leader as Trammell was. Trammell was as tough and had as much will as Coach Bryant. Rumor has it that Trammell told the other QB's that he WOULD be the QB so pretty much back off. He was apparently pretty intimidating.

I was around to see PT play. This kind of coincides to my impression of him. I think Trammell had something of a mean streak in him, and I don`t mean that in an insulting or derogatory way. He was just plain tough. But CPB loved him and said that the day Pat Trammell died was the sadest day of his life.

Chukker Veteran · Nov 22, 2013

I think the level of respect between Trammel and Bryant was very similar to the very good relationship we now see between Saban & AJ. (as an aside, Bryant's very positive relationship with John Croyle also comes to mind.)

When an gruff grumpy coach shows genuine affection and respect for a player who has blossomed in a very public fashion...it can be a very rewarding thing for fans to see. When people cite comparisons between Bryant/Trammel and Saban/AJ, I think it's the depth of respect on display between the player and coach that compares favorably rather than the two players' athletic ability or playing styles and stats.

TommyMac · Nov 22, 2013

There are similarities, but they're different in the way they play. AJ is the more gifted passer and Pat the better runner who didn't mind putting his head down for the tough yards. I'd say both are/were over-achievers.

I don't think Coach Bryant could have loved Pat any more had he been his own son. After Pat finished school Coach Bryant always proudly referred to him as "Doctor Pat Trammel."

JBama_in_PCOLA · Nov 22, 2013

I don't know much about Trammel. Did CP"B"B say he was the best player he ever coached or something?

Sent from my iPhone

FitToBeTide · Nov 22, 2013

JBama_in_PCOLA said:
I don't know much about Trammel. Did CP"B"B say he was the best player he ever coached or something?

Sent from my iPhone

Don't think he ever called him the best. But he had regard for Pat at about the highest level a player could attain.

An example would be seen here from a direct quote from Coach Bryant that comes from John Underwood's book Coach about Pat: "But the bell cow of the whole outfit was Pat Trammell. You'll have to forgive me here for getting sentimental, but Pat Trammell was the favorite person of my entire life and I'm going to tell you as much as I can about him.

As a quarterback he had no ability. Couldn't do anything but win. He was not a great runner, but he scored touchdowns. He didn't pass with great style, but he completed them. He had been an all-star hight school basketball and football player from Scottsboro, Alabama, and at 6-2 205 pounds, he was about as big as any man we had on that 1961 team. As a leader, I have never had another like him."

JBama_in_PCOLA · Nov 22, 2013

1FitToBeTide said:
Don't think he ever called him the best. But he had regard for Pat at about the highest level a player could attain.

An example would be seen here from a direct quote from Coach Bryant that comes from John Underwood's book Coach about Pat: "But the bell cow of the whole outfit was Pat Trammell. You'll have to forgive me here for getting sentimental, but Pat Trammell was the favorite person of my entire life and I'm going to tell you as much as I can about him.

As a quarterback he had no ability. Couldn't do anything but win. He was not a great runner, but he scored touchdowns. He didn't pass with great style, but he completed them. He had been an all-star hight school basketball and football player from Scottsboro, Alabama, and at 6-2 205 pounds, he was about as big as any man we had on that 1961 team. As a leader, I have never had another like him."

That's all I need to hear about him. I can see why people are comparing AJ and Coach Saban's relationship.

Sent from my iPhone

TIDE-HSV · Nov 22, 2013

BTW, there was an extremely talented passer and ball handler playing behind Trammel - Bobby Skelton, who went on to a long and distinguished career as an NFL official. Bobby did fumble occasionally; Trammel practically never...

AgentAntiOrange · Nov 22, 2013

Favorite PT story:

http://www.tidefans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42466&p=361068&viewfull=1#post361068

TommyMac said:
I remember that Trammell once ran a quick kick on 3rd down and when he went to the sideline, Coach Bryant asked him about it and he told Coach Bryant that they weren't doing anything on offense so he thought he'd see if they could play some defense. That was back in the days of one platoon football. Pat Trammell was maybe the only one who could have got away with that with Coach Bryant.

ALA2262 · Nov 22, 2013

Class of '63 here, so I knew several of the players from the '61 team. Had classes with Lee Roy Jordan and Marlin Mooneyham. Lived in the same dorm as Jimmy Sharpe. Don't know why he wasn't in the athletic dorm. Was a HS classmate of Butch Henry. Pat Trammel may have been a tough guy on the field but he was easy going off the field. He would come to Foster and watch the intramural basketball games. Had several chats with him there. He was one of the classiest guys I ever met.

If God ever puts together a CFB team, the guy leaning against the goal post and smoking a cigarette is the coach. And #12 is the QB.

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