Question: So, how do you feel about a 4 team playoff now?

CrimsonForce

Hall of Fame
Dec 20, 2012
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Apparently you missed my post #92 at the top of Page 8 in this thread. Here is what I said:

"Even if I am wrong about the two teams from one conference, you can take the following to the bank. There will NEVER, EVER be two teams from the same conference in the NCG. That is the ENTIRE reason the BCS is dead and the committee is alive."

Bama 2011 would be a rare exception. They would have been seeded 4th and met LSU in the first round. There is NO WAY both would have been given the opportunity to advance to the NCG.
You're moving the goalposts. I was just discussing the "you have to be a conference champion" point that you had made and now you are saying that two teams from the same conference won't make the NCG. The committee said that being a conference champion counts for something, well of course it does. But a team isn't making the playoffs with 3 losses just because they won their conference. This simple scenario would open a spot for an "at large" big which could easily put two teams from the same conference in the playoffs.

Both scenarios I've pointed out to you, Bama in 2011 and ND, you have rationalized and said those are exceptions. That's my point. The exceptions are more common than you think.
 
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GreatDanish

Hall of Fame
Nov 22, 2005
6,079
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TN
Anyone who believes that the Top 4 teams will be selected needs to read the following:




"We are to reward conference championships no matter how they come about, whether it's a conference championship game, or in the Big 12 -- that counts for something to win your conference. "


http://espn.go.com/c....dule-analytics
I think you are misunderstanding. Strength of schedule has been discussed as a primary factor in selection/ranking. The Big 12 doesn't have a conference championship which would hurt their SOS. He is saying that they will still take into account the fact that the team won their conference championship - that the selection committee won't have a bias against the Big 12. That's the point - that the committee will not be biased against the Big 12.
Click here - particularly read the last part.
Of course conference championships are important but it is not a prerequisite. In fact, that idea was brought up as a model for the playoff - that it would include conference champions ranked in the top 6 - and that idea was rejected.
 

CrimsonForce

Hall of Fame
Dec 20, 2012
12,757
94
67
I think you are misunderstanding. Strength of schedule has been discussed as a primary factor in selection/ranking. The Big 12 doesn't have a conference championship which would hurt their SOS. He is saying that they will still take into account the fact that the team won their conference championship - that the selection committee won't have a bias against the Big 12. That's the point - that the committee will not be biased against the Big 12.
Click here - particularly read the last part.
Of course conference championships are important but it is not a prerequisite. In fact, that idea was brought up as a model for the playoff - that it would include conference champions ranked in the top 6 - and that idea was rejected.
+1 :)
 

selmaborntidefan

TideFans Legend
Mar 31, 2000
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Thanks for providing the Neville Chamberlain perspective.
Sir,

What is your problem?

You first made the assertion that people on this board:

The "Conference Champ" thing will be used to make sure the SEC has no more than one representative - just wait. Cannot believe there is so much faith in this system by our fanbase
I'll be blunt - I don't know how anybody with an ounce of reading comprehension of the previous ten pages (plus the other multiple posts on this subject) can possibly have arrived at the assertion you did. In point of fact, almost EVERYONE has something they don't like about it - and yet you somehow interpret that as saying we have faith in the system.


Of course I'll be blunt again - WIN YOUR GAMES and it doesn't matter (in our case). You seem more concerned with making sure we have a back door in just in case things go wrong. Of course if that's the case you should at least be consistent and advocate a (fill in the blank with a number) team playoff.

Then when I made the point, you made a political reference that probably violates board rules but - aside from that - is inane in light of the fact none of us complaining about it has any power to do anything about it. After all - if we did then we'd do it.

But this constant whining from a number of folks - "they're gonna keep out two SEC teams, they're biased, blah blah blah" - sickens me. This new system GUARANTEES an unbeaten SEC team will ALWAYS be in the mix no matter what. There won't be any 1966, 1977 or (for Auburn, for example) 1983 or 2004 or near calamities like almost fell on LSU in 2003 or would have fallen on us in 2005 (if Prothro isn't injured).

The same fans complaining now about the two SEC teams not making it are some of the same fans who five years ago were saying it wasn't right that we might have to beat Florida twice (if Nebraska beat Texas and Cincy lost). Now these same folks suddenly have no problem with rematches.

Win your games or don't complain - it's that simple.
 

BamaJama17

Hall of Fame
Sep 17, 2006
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Hoover, AL
Selma you are implying that Alabama goes 12-0 and is SEC champs in 2005 if Prothro doesn't get injured. Correct??? Anyways I have mixed feelings about this whole system. Part if me thinks it will work out all right but I also think that sometime (maybe not this year) it will be a total screw up.


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BamaJama17

Hall of Fame
Sep 17, 2006
16,365
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Hoover, AL
They wouldn't even need a committee if there were only 4 major conferences. And, of course, no ND. Their only reason for being is to pick 4 of the 6.
Well there isn't any official "ND Rule" in the playoff...that we know of. I'm guessing though an undefeated ND automatically gets in. A 1 loss well who knows. A 2 loss probably knocks them out.


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selmaborntidefan

TideFans Legend
Mar 31, 2000
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Selma you are implying that Alabama goes 12-0 and is SEC champs in 2005 if Prothro doesn't get injured. Correct??? Anyways I have mixed feelings about this whole system. Part if me thinks it will work out all right but I also think that sometime (maybe not this year) it will be a total screw up.


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What I AM saying is that if we had gone undefeated in 2005 - we'd have been left out. Texas and USC got the hype, we didn't.

If Prothro isn't hurt, we undoubtedly beat LSU plus we don't accumulate injuries due to the lack of offense. Maybe we don't beat Auburn or UGA but it wouldn't matter if we had.

And that has been corrected.
 

BamaJama17

Hall of Fame
Sep 17, 2006
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What I AM saying is that if we had gone undefeated in 2005 - we'd have been left out. Texas and USC got the hype, we didn't.

If Prothro isn't hurt, we undoubtedly beat LSU plus we don't accumulate injuries due to the lack of offense. Maybe we don't beat Auburn or UGA but it wouldn't matter if we had.

And that has been corrected.
Agreed. Sadly Alabama would have been left out. I do think however that that defense had more overall speed than '12 or even '13 and probably would have held their own against USC or Texas that year. I know that this has largely been forgotten but remember Penn State when they went 11-1 and got cheated at Michigan with the clock. They also had a solid defense that year and they may have been just as good or better than Texas or USC.


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IGetBuckets

Suspended
Jan 13, 2014
368
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Sir,

What is your problem?

You first made the assertion that people on this board:



I'll be blunt - I don't know how anybody with an ounce of reading comprehension of the previous ten pages (plus the other multiple posts on this subject) can possibly have arrived at the assertion you did. In point of fact, almost EVERYONE has something they don't like about it - and yet you somehow interpret that as saying we have faith in the system.


Of course I'll be blunt again - WIN YOUR GAMES and it doesn't matter (in our case). You seem more concerned with making sure we have a back door in just in case things go wrong. Of course if that's the case you should at least be consistent and advocate a (fill in the blank with a number) team playoff.

Then when I made the point, you made a political reference that probably violates board rules but - aside from that - is inane in light of the fact none of us complaining about it has any power to do anything about it. After all - if we did then we'd do it.

But this constant whining from a number of folks - "they're gonna keep out two SEC teams, they're biased, blah blah blah" - sickens me. This new system GUARANTEES an unbeaten SEC team will ALWAYS be in the mix no matter what. There won't be any 1966, 1977 or (for Auburn, for example) 1983 or 2004 or near calamities like almost fell on LSU in 2003 or would have fallen on us in 2005 (if Prothro isn't injured).

The same fans complaining now about the two SEC teams not making it are some of the same fans who five years ago were saying it wasn't right that we might have to beat Florida twice (if Nebraska beat Texas and Cincy lost). Now these same folks suddenly have no problem with rematches.

Win your games or don't complain - it's that simple.
"Sir" ...

Let me be blunt as well. You just stated "I don't know how anybody with an ounce of reading comprehension of the previous ten pages (plus the other multiple posts on this subject) can possibly have arrived at the assertion you did."

So because I conclude differently I am inferior to you. You just said it, and you say it or intimate it in almost every discussion I read, where myself or someone else disagrees with you. To be blunt, you are a bit full of yourself because you have this "Memory" Gift, or curse...

This Board in NO WAY reflects the opinions of many Bama or SEC fans, who indeed think the "Panel" means 2 SEC teams will be granted playoff slots in many seasons. If fairness was the aim they would have just kept the BCS formula. Instead, they placed it in the hands of humans, who can and will show bias. I assert this will be proven in the next few years, as the "Panel" is not being handed the responsibility of finding the "Best" 4 teams.

Your "Memory" means you remember things. It has NOTHING to do with the ability to assimilate info, analyze it, and make future projections from it. I do not want to be overbearing, I can be and I have worked on that flaw in the last few years - but I am not going to be talked down to either, just because you can remember you had blood sausage for breakfast in Southhampton on June 6, 1974.
 
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Redwood Forrest

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Sep 19, 2003
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A small number of "commettee" will be more apt to bias than a large, large group of voters. I think that is one reasont the AP is considered the best, because they have the most voters.
 

KrAzY3

Hall of Fame
Jan 18, 2006
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kraizy.art
A small number of "commettee" will be more apt to bias than a large, large group of voters. I think that is one reasont the AP is considered the best, because they have the most voters.
I think the AP just managed to develop a reputation over the years, kind of like the Rose Bowl, which largely comes from seniority. But, I do think the point that a larger pool from which to draw data tends to be less corrupt, is valid.

However, the old poll system had a huge flaw in that there were competing polls and no guaranteed 1 vs. 2 match-ups. So, each poll could pick their #1 prior to a bowl game, and if they didn't lose stick with that all the way into next season. I think the BCS did wonders for the process (and I've cited unanimous national champions as proof of that) by both bringing in a lot more data, but also by providing a more robust test for that data. Now though, they've eliminated the best measurement we've ever had.

If you look, even after the AP poll was no longer part of the BCS, it was still closely aligned and the additional computer data, the BCS championship game, those sorts of things tended to force the AP into voting more responsibly. Within the BCS though, one individual would have great difficulty in wrecking the entire process.

My problem with the playoff going forward are two-fold. The first one is primarily that I take strong exception to a small committee voting based on ridiculous criteria. Injuries? Seriously? Correct me if I'm wrong, but you don't get a do over in the championship game because of an injury, so why should you during the regular season? That along with the conference championship criteria all but insure even an unbiased committee will act in a biased manner. Then, that brings in the problem I had from the start. It was actually a very rare occurrence that the #3 team could boast as to really being the best, and unheard of for #4 to be able to make that boast.

If you couple the committee's weird criteria, with the doubling of the team's included, you are all but guaranteed that worthy teams get passed over occasionally, while completely unworthy times are included (which defeats the purpose). That brings us back to the AP. How would the AP vote, if for instance a 1 loss SEC conference champion, loses in the first round of the playoff, and the eventually champion is a 2 loss Big 12 champion (with the same number of wins) that was previously ranked 5th? The AP only went against the BCS once, I think we'll see more chances for the AP to go against the playoff, unless!!! and this is important, unless they do what they've done for the NCAA tournament, which is simply refuse to post a poll afterwards. They know there's no way to reconcile ranking a team with twice as many losses as the former #1 team, #1, so they simply refuse to do a poll at all...
 

B1GTide

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Apr 13, 2012
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No matter how much I want to rip this system, one saving grace keeps coming to mind: With 4 teams now making the playoff, chances are greatly improved that the two best teams in America will make it into that group of four. A team like Alabama that needed miracles in 2011 ans 2012 to make the BCS championship game is a virtual lock to make it into the field of 4 now.

Will the 4th best team make it every year? No - that team may occasionally be passed over for a conference champion. But I am more certain that the top 2 will make it than I was under the BCS.

Does that mean that the top 2 will play in the actual championship game every year? Of course not - there is an additional game to win, but I can live with that because they will have their chance. That is all that anyone can ask for, IMO.
 

GreatDanish

Hall of Fame
Nov 22, 2005
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No matter how much I want to rip this system, one saving grace keeps coming to mind: With 4 teams now making the playoff, chances are greatly improved that the two best teams in America will make it into that group of four. A team like Alabama that needed miracles in 2011 ans 2012 to make the BCS championship game is a virtual lock to make it into the field of 4 now.

Will the 4th best team make it every year? No - that team may occasionally be passed over for a conference champion. But I am more certain that the top 2 will make it than I was under the BCS.

Does that mean that the top 2 will play in the actual championship game every year? Of course not - there is an additional game to win, but I can live with that because they will have their chance. That is all that anyone can ask for, IMO.
I agree. Now, if we can just keep the playoff to 4 teams, I might be able to embrace it.
 

GrayTide

Hall of Fame
Nov 15, 2005
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IMO, we as college football fans who watch countless hours of games on TV, know who the best teams are. Of course we have to put aside our Alabama and SEC bias and be honest with ourselves. The BCS got the right two teams last year. At the end of the season both auburn and FSU were better than we were.
 

MOAN

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Aug 30, 2010
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I got a suggestion. When this question comes back up in December, how about ya'll just link post from this thread to a new one so we do not have to go through all the old post to catch up the new with. I think it will make for a better and more fluid discussion then. ;) Carry on! :)
 

IGetBuckets

Suspended
Jan 13, 2014
368
0
0
I think I should bow out of this thread. I will wait a bit and re-visit it, but I may have taken things too personally and become too argumentative, in presenting and defending my opinion.

I know Selma is a great asset here, and can offer things I cannot. I enjoy his opinions and posts, despite my disagreeing on certain issues. If I have offended him, my apologies.

The "Panel" will either prove, or disprove, their worth, and all ideas and speculation have validity now in my opinion.
 

Mamacalled

Hall of Fame
Dec 4, 2000
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One thing I know for certain, is a playoff does not guarantee having the two best teams play. Also, the more teams involved the more likely you will have the best teams not make the championship game. Look no further than the CWS this year. Vandy was the fourth best team in the SEC and Virginia was the second best in the ACC.
 
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