Link: Is The AHSAA About To Make Major Alignment Changes

Re: Is The AHSSA Fixing To Make Major Alignment Changes

JIB said:

I don't know much about the AISA other than the competition is really poor compared to AHSAA, most schools are fairly small and it apparently started in response to integration concerns. I could be wrong about the last two things.

I'd like to see a map of AISA schools, I've always thought they were mostly out in the boonies.

Click to expand...

There is some truth to that. They mostly seem to be smaller schools that would be 1A in AHSAA or 2A because of the multiplier. Even the AISA schools that I can think of that are in cities are smaller schools that would be 1A-2A. The bigger city based private schools are AHSAA.

Re: Is The AHSSA About To Make Major Alignment Changes

230kv_barehand said:

Honestly I think the AISA will be picked up by the NFHS since they have the AHSAA's help now. That was originally the reason as to why the realignments were pushed back from December to January.

I disagree on the attrition. You might see one or two, but that would be a max number. The diehards are not going anywhere (John Carroll, Briarwood, UMS, St. Paul's, Madison Academy) but I'd imagine the only ones that would leave would be the very small private schools in 1A that would be pushed up higher by the multiplier. Reason I say that is even though the multiplier jumps up pretty high, it will not cause "that big" of a jump. Like Madison Academy in 3A, if the multiplier goes to 1.75 you are only talking about an 80 kid jump but it would put them in 4A. St. Paul's wouldn't even leave 5A with a 1.75 multiplier. Even a 1.9 multiplier still keeps St. Paul's in 5A. Basically with this multiplier (1.5 to 2) would basically move every private school up ONE CLASS from 1A to probably 3A, which is the main reason of moving it up IMHO.

Click to expand...

You make great points and may be spot on, however I'd go a bit higher than 1 or 2 and say 5 to 7 may go to AISA.

Using the last classification numbers, and changing the multiplier from 1.35 to 1.75, the following small private schools would move up:

Madison Academy 3a to 4a
Trinity - 3a to 4a
Montgomery Catholic - 3a to 4a
American Christian - 3a to 4a
Bayside Academy - 3a to 4a
Westminster Christian - 3a to 4a
Mars Hill - 3a to 4a
Montgomery Academy - 2a to 3a
Prattville Christian - 2a to 3a
Westbrook Christian - 2a to 3a
Houston Academy - 2a to 3a
Mobile Christian - 2a to 3a
Providence Christian - 2a to 3a
Altamont - 2a to 3a
Sumiton Christian - 1a to 2a
Holy Spirit - 1a to 2a
St Luke's - 1a to 2a (possibly 3a)
Decatur Heritage - 1a to 2a
Athens Bible - 1a to 2a
Shades Mtn Christian - 1a to 2a

Four or five of those schools (namely the real small ones) would have to shut down their money-making football programs altogether within the next year or two if the multiplier moved up, as they would get pummeled in the next classification.

Basically, the small private schools would suffer, while the large ones would be fine. With that said, the most fair thing to do would be to penalize the large private schools with a greater multiplier than the smaller ones.

Re: Is The AHSSA About To Make Major Alignment Changes

It's not fair to punish schools who don't recruit, no matter what their size.

Re: Is The AHSSA About To Make Major Alignment Changes

I think they need to do something. My local high school is 5A, though I can't fathom how. If they are 5A they must be counting the lunchroom ladies and stray cats on the property. Consequently the football team walks out there and looks like a 95 lb pee wee team compared to the 5A schools they have to play. they get slaughtered year after year with no hope of ever being so much as competative. They play hard and they play for 4 quarters as evidenced by several teams they almost slipped up on and beat but in the end the other team wakes up from whatever slumber they are in and walks all over them. I'm only a band parent but I just can't stand seeing the boys beat down like that every week.

Re: Is The AHSSA About To Make Major Alignment Changes

We went from being one of the smallest in 5A to one of the biggest in 4A and got a state baseball championship and football runner-up this year. The move to 4A benefited us well, but it looks like we are headed back to 5A. :frown:

Re: Is The AHSSA About To Make Major Alignment Changes

JIB said:

It's not fair to punish schools who don't recruit, no matter what their size.

Click to expand...

Perhaps they could look at a bigger multiplier if a school offered scholarships and leave the others alone, if it was feasible to look into such things and the private schools were on the up-and-up about recruiting.

Re: Is The AHSSA About To Make Major Alignment Changes

pigsinspace said:

Perhaps they could look at a bigger multiplier if a school offered scholarships and leave the others alone, if it was feasible to look into such things and the private schools were on the up-and-up about recruiting.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I just don't know how practical it is.

Re: Is The AHSSA About To Make Major Alignment Changes

It really isn't practical because unless a school has it in their bylaws (if private schools have those) that they won't recruit, then how do you monitor that? We are 4A and lost to Oneonta after a record breaking season and Bayside gave us all we wanted as a 3A school. I could not imagine what they would do to schools in 2A! Same with UMS. If they went down to 3A, no other school would win at ANY sport. We barely beat them in football but swept them in baseball--one game was close though. It would completely unfair for them to drop down in classification.

Re: Is The AHSSA About To Make Major Alignment Changes

bamabelle1991 said:

It really isn't practical because unless a school has it in their bylaws (if private schools have those) that they won't recruit, then how do you monitor that? We are 4A and lost to Oneonta after a record breaking season and Bayside gave us all we wanted as a 3A school. I could not imagine what they would do to schools in 2A! Same with UMS. If they went down to 3A, no other school would win at ANY sport. We barely beat them in football but swept them in baseball--one game was close though. It would completely unfair for them to drop down in classification.

Click to expand...

UMS may recruit , I don't know, they're certainly very good. Maybe Mobile has a weird dynamic, they seem to have a lot more good private schools than Birmingham does despite being smaller.

my issue is punishing innocent schools. Any proposal that does that doesn't sit well with me.

Re: Is The AHSSA About To Make Major Alignment Changes

JIB said:

UMS may recruit , I don't know, they're certainly very good. Maybe Mobile has a weird dynamic, they seem to have a lot more good private schools than Birmingham does despite being smaller.

my issue is punishing innocent schools. Any proposal that does that doesn't sit well with me.

Click to expand...

The thing is recruiting is not limited to private schools. Anyone that states differently is not seeing the forest for the trees. Only real advantage is a larger pool to bring students in. Some seem to think students are immediately eligible at a private school regardless of where they live. This is no the case. Same bonafide move rules as public schools. Only difference is they can have students live anywhere in the system that serves where the private school physically sits rather than a particular district inside that system.

But there are ways that public schools get around the district rule too, one being majority to minority transfers among others. Raising the multiplier to the levels being discussed are punitive rather than based on fairness.

Re: Is The AHSSA About To Make Major Alignment Changes

jangalang said:

You make great points and may be spot on, however I'd go a bit higher than 1 or 2 and say 5 to 7 may go to AISA.

Using the last classification numbers, and changing the multiplier from 1.35 to 1.75, the following small private schools would move up:

Madison Academy 3a to 4a
Trinity - 3a to 4a
Montgomery Catholic - 3a to 4a
American Christian - 3a to 4a
Bayside Academy - 3a to 4a
Westminster Christian - 3a to 4a
Mars Hill - 3a to 4a
Montgomery Academy - 2a to 3a
Prattville Christian - 2a to 3a
Westbrook Christian - 2a to 3a
Houston Academy - 2a to 3a
Mobile Christian - 2a to 3a
Providence Christian - 2a to 3a
Altamont - 2a to 3a
Sumiton Christian - 1a to 2a
Holy Spirit - 1a to 2a
St Luke's - 1a to 2a (possibly 3a)
Decatur Heritage - 1a to 2a
Athens Bible - 1a to 2a
Shades Mtn Christian - 1a to 2a

Four or five of those schools (namely the real small ones) would have to shut down their money-making football programs altogether within the next year or two if the multiplier moved up, as they would get pummeled in the next classification.

Basically, the small private schools would suffer, while the large ones would be fine. With that said, the most fair thing to do would be to penalize the large private schools with a greater multiplier than the smaller ones.

Click to expand...

I think you might have done the numbers wrong. To get a private schools TRUE number you have to take what they are classified as right now and divide it by 1.35 (the current multiplier) then multiply that number by 1.75. There is no way St. Luke's would go to 3A even if the multiplier was 2.

Most to all of those schools will stay in the AHSAA. I don't see as many as 7 of those leaving.

Re: Is The AHSSA About To Make Major Alignment Changes

230kv_barehand said:

I think you might have done the numbers wrong. To get a private schools TRUE number you have to take what they are classified as right now and divide it by 1.35 (the current multiplier) then multiply that number by 1.75. There is no way St. Luke's would go to 3A even if the multiplier was 2.

Most to all of those schools will stay in the AHSAA. I don't see as many as 7 of those leaving.

Click to expand...

That's the formula I used. Being Christmas break, I have a lot of time on my hands.

Also, St. Luke's had their first graduating class last year (37 graduated), so the last time they were counted, it probably wasn't a full 10th-12th grade count. That's how I came to that conclusion.

Re: Is The AHSSA About To Make Major Alignment Changes

jangalang said:

That's the formula I used. Being Christmas break, I have a lot of time on my hands.

Also, St. Luke's had their first graduating class last year (37 graduated), so the last time they were counted, it probably wasn't a full 10th-12th grade count. That's how I came to that conclusion.

Click to expand...

That we could agree on then. That would be the only way they jump 2 classes.

Re: Is The AHSSA About To Make Major Alignment Changes

jangalang said:

You make great points and may be spot on, however I'd go a bit higher than 1 or 2 and say 5 to 7 may go to AISA.

Using the last classification numbers, and changing the multiplier from 1.35 to 1.75, the following small private schools would move up:

Madison Academy 3a to 4a
Trinity - 3a to 4a
Montgomery Catholic - 3a to 4a
American Christian - 3a to 4a
Bayside Academy - 3a to 4a
Westminster Christian - 3a to 4a
Mars Hill - 3a to 4a
Montgomery Academy - 2a to 3a
Prattville Christian - 2a to 3a
Westbrook Christian - 2a to 3a
Houston Academy - 2a to 3a
Mobile Christian - 2a to 3a
Providence Christian - 2a to 3a
Altamont - 2a to 3a
Sumiton Christian - 1a to 2a
Holy Spirit - 1a to 2a
St Luke's - 1a to 2a (possibly 3a)
Decatur Heritage - 1a to 2a
Athens Bible - 1a to 2a
Shades Mtn Christian - 1a to 2a

Four or five of those schools (namely the real small ones) would have to shut down their money-making football programs altogether within the next year or two if the multiplier moved up, as they would get pummeled in the next classification.

Basically, the small private schools would suffer, while the large ones would be fine. With that said, the most fair thing to do would be to penalize the large private schools with a greater multiplier than the smaller ones.

Click to expand...

My kid plays for Holy Spirit, and we got absolutely massacred this year (and last year, and the year before that...). We had 28 kids, grades 7-12 playing this year. In one game, we dressed 19 due to injuries. Moving to 2A would be just a wonderful way to remediate that. It is patently unfair to punish private schools that don't recruit with a multiplier, especially since they're not allowed to take transfers from out of zone. Using Holy Spirit as an example, the school is located in the Tuscaloosa City zone, so a kid from Northridge, Bryant, or Tuscaloosa Central could transfer in without sitting out. This assumes they make the grades to be eligible to go to Holy Spirit and that their parents can afford the tuition (because Holy Spirit, unlike, say, American Christian, doesn't recruit because we just don't have the resources to do it).

If AHSAA is going to screw over the private schools that don't recruit by increasing the multiplier to 1.9 or something similarly ridiculous, they should allow "free" transfers from out of zone, so kids from Brookwood, Tuscaloosa County, Hillcrest, Sipsey Valley, Northside, West Blocton, Bibb County, Hale County, Pickens County (this year's 1A state champion, BTW), etc. could go if they so chose to do so. We have inquiries all the time from out of zone kids who would like to go to Holy Spirit, but don't want to sit out for a year.

It is amusing, to say the least, to hear the public schools get all hot and bothered about private school recruiting that largely doesn't happen, when schools like Mountain Brook, Tuscaloosa County, Hoover, etc. are obviously recruiting and facing no consequences.

As for a potential move to AISA, it has been discussed. The problem there is travel time and how AISA schools schedule other sports (basketball, volleyball, etc.). We would have kids getting out at noon several days per month to travel 3+ hours for games that start with JV at 4:30 and end with Varsity as late as 10:00, with the 3+ hour drive home. That's not acceptable to the parents and academic staff.

Re: Is The AHSSA About To Make Major Alignment Changes

Titans&Tide said:

As for a potential move to AISA, it has been discussed. The problem there is travel time and how AISA schools schedule other sports (basketball, volleyball, etc.). We would have kids getting out at noon several days per month to travel 3+ hours for games that start with JV at 4:30 and end with Varsity as late as 10:00, with the 3+ hour drive home. That's not acceptable to the parents and academic staff.

Click to expand...

That's how the private schools in Mississippi do it. My classmates did it every week.

Re: Is The AHSSA About To Make Major Alignment Changes

A bigger multiplier would move john Carroll and briarwood to 6A, but 5A would have St Paul's and UMS out on Mobile. For track those two programs would relegate every other 5A school to 3rd place hopefuls.

Re: Is The AHSSA About To Make Major Alignment Changes

RTR91 said:

That's how the private schools in Mississippi do it. My classmates did it every week.

Click to expand...

While that may be true, it doesn't make it logical. I can't see how any private school (or schools) with incredibly finite resources would be willing to do that.

Re: Is The AHSSA About To Make Major Alignment Changes

Titans&Tide said:

It is amusing, to say the least, to hear the public schools get all hot and bothered about private school recruiting that largely doesn't happen, when schools like Mountain Brook, Tuscaloosa County, Hoover, etc. are obviously recruiting and facing no consequences.

Click to expand...

This is so true. A friend of mine used to teach at Hoover, and he said that the school has apartments in a specific complex on permanent retainer for the sole use of families of recruited athletes so that they can make a bonafide move. To blame all private schools (especially the very small ones) for the actions of a handful of large private schools with a ridiculous multiplier in "the name of competition" is, to me, detestable.

Re: Is The AHSSA About To Make Major Alignment Changes

BamaFanatJSU said:

This is so true. A friend of mine used to teach at Hoover, and he said that the school has apartments in a specific complex on permanent retainer for the sole use of families of recruited athletes so that they can make a bonafide move. To blame all private schools (especially the very small ones) for the actions of a handful of large private schools with a ridiculous multiplier in "the name of competition" is, to me, detestable.

Click to expand...

I'm sorry, but that sounds like tin foil hat stuff. Sure, they may go out and ask kids to move there but I don't think that happens much. Hoover doesn't have to recruit because KIDS WANT TO PLAY THERE. Who wouldn't? When people live in Hoover and commute to Montgomery so their kids can play football at the best school in the state, who cares? It's their life, they can do what they want!!

This thread is beginning to crack me up with the obvious line in the sand between the private school people and the public school people.