JessN: Sugar Bowl wrap-up: What will this game mean for Alabama’s future?

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........It can be easy to swap between the 3-4 and the 3-3-5, depending on what the makeup of your outside positions look like. Oklahoma was able to flex between the two all year long, particularly after they lost Corey Nelson at midseason. But that was because their outside personnel had been scaled down to keep up with the outside speed of Big 12 offenses.

Alabama's scheme issue here is that the defense is slow on the corners. The Jacks and ends struggle setting the edge because the mush technique makes them vulnerable to getting zoned on the play. Unfortunately, you either have to recruit a guy for a specific situation, and not play him when the situation isn't there, or you have to sort of restructure the philosophy up front.
I appreciate the response, especially reiterating that switching between a pure 3-4 and 4-3 is profound. I remember an article you wrote right after coach Saban arrived where you broke down the new prototypes and who might get left out. Players became tweener's overnight.

Sounds like we should stay with the 3-4 and 5-2 with lb's, but maybe tweak the size for speed? You need the 6-3 280's but once they have momentum going, they can run themselves past the play.
 

Isaiah 63:1

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Thanks for posting to share this with us. Alabama has obviously had horrible play calling the past two years, and they just got lucky a thousand times or so. The national championship, the 11 wins this season, it was basically like that Auburn reception in the Georgia game over and over.
This post cracked me up. It wouldn't have been nearly as funny in blue font.
 

TIDE-HSV

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I appreciate the response, especially reiterating that switching between a pure 3-4 and 4-3 is profound. I remember an article you wrote right after coach Saban arrived where you broke down the new prototypes and who might get left out. Players became tweener's overnight.

Sounds like we should stay with the 3-4 and 5-2 with lb's, but maybe tweak the size for speed? You need the 6-3 280's but once they have momentum going, they can run themselves past the play.
Unfortunately, that's what happened once we decided to get aggressive...
 

bonehouse81

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I don't think he's ever run a pure 4-3 but I don't think that's necessarily the answer, either. First and foremost, it changes your entire defensive front seven recruiting strategy and you may not get the payoff you're looking for.

In a 3-4 over/under, the lineup is typically a big nose (300+ pounds, preferably 330+) with a couple of DE/T combo players who go 270 or so. Then the LB corps usually is a Mike (even though the LB group is even-numbered) in the 240-250-pound range, a Will at around 230, and then you have the OLB components. The SLB is rarely on the field, because he's the first guy off when the nickel comes on. The other side is the Jack.

What Alabama has been doing, when it goes to nickel, has been to remove the SLB, put the Jack down at end and go to a four-man, shaded front, with the nose still right over center or in the strongside A-gap. The LBs then typically shade to the weakside a bit. When Alabama started going really big at the SLB position, what started happening is that Alabama also took one of the DEs off the field and moved the SLB down to end, so the alignment looked like this: SLB-NT-WDE-Jack. Alabama plays its base defense -- I'm just taking a semi-wild guess here -- about 10 percent of the time nowadays. Alabama is almost always in a 4-2-5, 3-3-5 or 3-2-6 setup.

What makes this different from the traditional 4-3 is the linebackers in a 4-3 usually have a Mike going around 240 flanked by OLBs in the 210-to-220-pound range. When the nickel comes on, they drop one of the OLBs, then drop the other one in dime so you end up with a 4-1-6, which Alabama runs sometimes (typically with the dime walked up into a LB slot; this was the defense Alabama used almost exclusively against Auburn in 2009 with Ali Sharrief basically playing LB).

Tennessee changed from a 3-4 over/under to a 4-3 this year and you saw what happened. Daniel McCullers was rendered pretty much ineffective, because they were asking him to attack rather than mush and he didn't have the feet for it. In addition, Tennessee's OLBs were too big to drop back into the WLB and SLB slots, and when UT lost Curt Maggitt the wheels came off. It takes about 2-3 years to make that transition.

The intermediate step between these two is the 3-3-5 base that Joe Kines used -- you basically get the line of a 3-4 with the linebackers from a 4-3; i.e., smaller all over -- except Kines was also resurrecting the old Miami opposite-shoulder, inside-out philosophy, where everything got funneled outside and the defense used superior speed to make the play. That's why Alabama's OLBs were Terrence Jones (210 pounds) and Demarcus Waldrop (200); they were basically safeties. Kines used a big nose who had two-gap responsibilities, stuck a big Mike (Matt Collins that last year) behind him and then funneled everything out to the edges. When Saban got here, Collins went to DE and only got about a dozen snaps his senior year, because he didn't fit the new scheme. The Mike in Saban's defense is asked to do a million different things. The other big change were Keith Saunders and Brandon Fanney going from tackle to outside linebacker. Eryk Anders, if you remember, was going to be a tackle (!) in Kines' defense.

It can be easy to swap between the 3-4 and the 3-3-5, depending on what the makeup of your outside positions look like. Oklahoma was able to flex between the two all year long, particularly after they lost Corey Nelson at midseason. But that was because their outside personnel had been scaled down to keep up with the outside speed of Big 12 offenses.

Alabama's scheme issue here is that the defense is slow on the corners. The Jacks and ends struggle setting the edge because the mush technique makes them vulnerable to getting zoned on the play. Unfortunately, you either have to recruit a guy for a specific situation, and not play him when the situation isn't there, or you have to sort of restructure the philosophy up front.
This is a tremendous post, and this has been a great conversation. A thanks to Jess and Krazy in particular for the good reading.

I don't know the schemes/philosophies as well as some, but I agree that some significant changes need to be made.

Our DL/OLBs are great for countering a conventional smashmouth running attack, but only LSU is really a threat there. Hubbard in particular looked out of place against the teams that gave us trouble.

I wonder how much differently we might have looked if our top two "flash" guys on the outside entering the season -- Pettway and Tomlinson -- had actually gotten to play this year.

But beyond personnel, these good tempo teams are neutralizing what have been some of our biggest advantages on defense -- the ability to make deliberate pre-snap adjustments, and the luxury of employing a ton of specialty personnel groupings. You might even conclude they've turned those things into weaknesses, as we've sometimes looked very ragged, confused, and not lined up correctly as the ball is snapped.

I am optimistic that Saban will make some changes. He's sometimes stubborn to a fault, but I'd be very surprised if he thinks the only problem is we need our DBs to develop some more.
 
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TIDE-HSV

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I'd like to get away from the notion that one can't criticize last night's performance without its turning into a criticism of the entire Saban tenure. The game has changed, greatly, in the last seven years (hard to believe it's been that long). It may sound strange to some, but I don't have major criticisms of the defense last night, at least in the second half, after we adjusted. You could wish we'd adapted sooner, but sometimes it just takes to halftime, when there's time to instruct the players as to what they need to change. We ran into a hot QB, who had the game of his life, and he made our inexperienced/hobbled DBs pay. There were the lapses I would expect, given who we had to put on the field.

On the offensive side, I do have criticism aplenty. After what AU did to us with an aggressive pass rush, I can't see much excuse for not giving CK help on the edge. The same thing needn't have happened over and over again, with it appearing that we were just unconscious to what was happening. I don't know what I can say about play calling without banning myself. There are standard, stock answers to what OU was doing and we didn't use them at all. It's pitiful when you're screaming inside to throw the slant to 88 or just draw and screen and we kept trying to drop back (or shotgun) and throw it downfield, with no left side help. We didn't take what they were giving us. It just seemed extremely stubborn. We go away from a hot young back, who, incidentally has been a bit restive about his PT because he thought he could do better (guess what?). It's almost as if Nuss went back to his far west roots in a tight situation. Kiffen was called in for a specific reason. So far as I can tell, we didn't follow or listen to any of his observations and advice. Can we change without a change in OCs? I don't know the answer to that, but I'll guarantee you that it's a question Saban is pondering tonight...
 
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bonehouse81

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I'd like to get away from the notion that one can't criticize last night's performance without it's turning into a criticism of the entire Saban tenure. The game has changed, greatly, in the last seven years (hard to believe it's been that long). It may sound strange to some, but I don't have major criticisms of the defense last night, at least in the second half, after we adjusted. You could wish we'd adapted sooner, but sometimes it just takes to halftime, when there's time to instruct the players as to what they need to change. We ran into a hot QB, who had the game of his life, and he made our inexperienced/hobbled DBs pay. There were the lapses I would expect, given who we had to put on the field.

On the offensive side, I do have criticism aplenty. After what AU did to us with an aggressive pass rush, I can't see much excuse for not giving CK help on the edge. The same thing needn't have happened over and over again, with it appearing that we were just unconscious to what was happening. I don't know what I can say about play calling without banning myself. There are standard, stock answers to what OU was doing and we didn't use them at all. It's pitiful when you're screaming inside to throw the slant to 88 or just draw and screen and we kept trying to drop back (or shotgun) and throw it downfield, with no left side help. We didn't take what they were giving us. It just seemed extremely stubborn. We go away from a hot young back, who, incidentally has been a bit restive about his PT because he thought he could do better (guess what?). It's almost as if Nuss went back to his far west roots in a tight situation. Kiffen was called in for a specific reason. So far as I can tell, we didn't follow or listen to any of his observations and advice. Can we change without a change in OCs? I don't know the answer to that, but I'll guarantee you that it's a question Saban is pondering tonight...
Well said. We looked absolutely lost/inept on offense for much of the game, despite the yardage numbers. It was embarrassing.

And to have a guy like Howard out there and almost never look his way is criminal. Almost every OC in America would kill to have a mismatch like that at his disposal, and we acted like he wasn't even on the field 99% of the time.
 

CrimsonForce

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I'd like to get away from the notion that one can't criticize last night's performance without it's turning into a criticism of the entire Saban tenure. The game has changed, greatly, in the last seven years (hard to believe it's been that long). It may sound strange to some, but I don't have major criticisms of the defense last night, at least in the second half, after we adjusted. You could wish we'd adapted sooner, but sometimes it just takes to halftime, when there's time to instruct the players as to what they need to change. We ran into a hot QB, who had the game of his life, and he made our inexperienced/hobbled DBs pay. There were the lapses I would expect, given who we had to put on the field.

On the offensive side, I do have criticism aplenty. After what AU did to us with an aggressive pass rush, I can't see much excuse for not giving CK help on the edge. The same thing needn't have happened over and over again, with it appearing that we were just unconscious to what was happening. I don't know what I can say about play calling without banning myself. There are standard, stock answers to what OU was doing and we didn't use them at all. It's pitiful when you're screaming inside to throw the slant to 88 or just draw and screen and we kept trying to drop back (or shotgun) and throw it downfield, with no left side help. We didn't take what they were giving us. It just seemed extremely stubborn. We go away from a hot young back, who, incidentally has been a bit restive about his PT because he thought he could do better (guess what?). It's almost as if Nuss went back to his far west roots in a tight situation. Kiffen was called in for a specific reason. So far as I can tell, we didn't follow or listen to any of his observations and advice. Can we change without a change in OCs? I don't know the answer to that, but I'll guarantee you that it's a question Saban is pondering tonight...
I don't blame DH for being upset about his lack of PT (if he was). Seems he can pass block just fine as he picked up a key blitzer on one of the long touchdown passes. He's obviously put in the work and based on his performance last night he should have seen the field a lot more this year. And I understand CNS doesn't like playing backs till they pick up pass blocking, but cmon, when you have a weapon like that let him run it. He can pick up blocking as the season goes on.
 

TIDE-HSV

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I don't blame DH for being upset about his lack of PT (if he was). Seems he can pass block just fine as he picked up a key blitzer on one of the long touchdown passes. He's obviously put in the work and based on his performance last night he should have seen the field a lot more this year. And I understand CNS doesn't like playing backs till they pick up pass blocking, but cmon, when you have a weapon like that let him run it. He can pick up blocking as the season goes on.
DH was bigger than some of their rushers and, as you say, he's picked the technique up. I know one thing - we must get less predictable on offense...
 
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TIDE-HSV

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Or get WAY the heck better on the Oline and get settled at QB. Not so long ago we could rush at will on anybody it seemed.


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Problem is that everyone knows what we're going to do in any given situation. In the past, we could simply impose our will on them. That wasn't true for a good part of the season, and certainly not the last two games...
 

OreBama

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The defense did well after halftime. I don't understand why we didn't adjust our pass protection. I also don't understand why our RBs fumble so much. I don't see a need to reinvent the wheel this off-season, but I'm confident the coaching staff will make adjustments.

Our CBs are asked to do an awful lot and when the talent/experience is not there we struggle. Also, I have to ask the question why opposing QBs seem to have breakout performance against our defense? It doesn't happen often, but when it does... Is it just because it's Bama that they have great games or are we simply figured out by the opposing coaching staff?
 

CrimsonEyeshade

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The defense did well after halftime. I don't understand why we didn't adjust our pass protection. I also don't understand why our RBs fumble so much. I don't see a need to reinvent the wheel this off-season, but I'm confident the coaching staff will make adjustments.

Our CBs are asked to do an awful lot and when the talent/experience is not there we struggle. Also, I have to ask the question why opposing QBs seem to have breakout performance against our defense? It doesn't happen often, but when it does... Is it just because it's Bama that they have great games or are we simply figured out by the opposing coaching staff?
During the first half, when we were laboring under the impression that OU couldn't throw, we played so soft a zone that frequently, a red jersey would not appear in the TV screen until the receiver caught the ball, then turned and ran up field. It got better in the second half -- for a while. But the QB hit 11 straight at one point. For all our last-minute adjustments on defense, Josh Heipel seemed to know what we were sending before we did.

In that regard, we appeared fairly predictable on defense, too.
 

bamacon

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The inconsistency and just total abandonment if stuff that is working is what has been most frustrating on offense. Last year during the SECCG CNS said in the interview that we would RUN the ball during the 2nd half. I have to think he said as much to the OC at halftime. You could tell CNS was plenty ticked during the games but Nuss was his call. I have to think that the OC spot is the one most in question for the offseason. Guess we'll see.
 

bamacpa

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Clearly, we have to attack the hurry up differently. The complex pre-snap adjustments we typically make are just not available against the HUNH. Offensively, we have to kill the scared cows. Don't keep giving it to the same players to the exclusion of the rest of your playmakers especially when when the sacred cows aren't producing. It is clear from the repetitive discipline matters and the obviously poor body language during games that some attitudes need adjusting. I for one, think that our poorer than expected schedule masked some flaws and inflated the rep of this team. Va Tech was average, UT and Arky were dismal, and even LSU was down defensively. We didn't face a QB who could challenge our green secondary until Mett.
 

CrimsonEyeshade

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The inconsistency and just total abandonment if stuff that is working is what has been most frustrating on offense. Last year during the SECCG CNS said in the interview that we would RUN the ball during the 2nd half. I have to think he said as much to the OC at halftime. You could tell CNS was plenty ticked during the games but Nuss was his call. I have to think that the OC spot is the one most in question for the offseason. Guess we'll see.
Except, we keep talking like our lineup is static. We ran the ball against UGA last year because we couldn't block their pass rushers but we could blow them off the ball. This year, the line was not nearly as good. So our play action wasn't nearly as effective either.

One thing we haven't discussed at all is the loss of Steen for the bowl game. Our most consistent lineman is gone and that doesn't have an impact? That said, our play calling Thusday night played right into the Sooners' strength, which may explain the seemingly odd running plays before Henry's last TD -- slowing down a pass rush we couldn't block, the same strategy we employed against Georgia but with far less success.

In my opinion, we never abandoned our running game, we just weren't as good. Neither were we as good on defense because we lost several good-to-great contributors. That led to inexperienced replacements as well as exposing players like Hubbard, Ivory and Williams.

In short, we were a different team this year -- and weaker in key ways.
 

twofbyc

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O played well enough to win the SB (minus turnovers), but not the IB. D, however, didn't play well in either; got gashed on run D in IB and lit up by a less than top-notch QB in the SB (he may turn out to be after all).
If Bama is going to stick to "Defense wins championships" mindset, then something needs to change - either personnel or gameplans.
With all of the stellar recruiting classes CNS has had at Bama, it's hard for the average joe to understand how losing one player on either side of the ball (not the qb) could lead to large disparity in performance numbers. But that's why I don't make an 8 figure salary :wink:
 

Crimson1967

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Seriously? "or his wife’s comments about the fans who pay for that contract"
Let's not forget there are multiple suitors willing to pay more. That's comes off to me like telling a player that gave a team a home town discount to remember who pays his salary. Remember that he doesn't have to be here.

I also think the Monte Kiffin reference was uncalled for. I have a lot of respect for JessN, but this article sounded a bit emotive, or should I say unappreciative?
While Jess is a fan of the team, it is his job here to give his opinion about the games, not to blow sunshine up everyone's skirt and kiss Saban's ring.
 

B1GTide

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...With all of the stellar recruiting classes CNS has had at Bama, it's hard for the average joe to understand how losing one player on either side of the ball (not the qb) could lead to large disparity in performance numbers.
Nose Tackle - consider the defense and the importance of the position, then consider the dropoff from Cody/Williams to this season.
 

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