Things to Fix Before We Go After Wholesale Changes in Philosophy

rgw

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Sep 15, 2003
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I would caution those who just pull the entitlement card to bat down those who think there need to be changes. That sort of culture is what led to Mack Brown's decline at Texas. Nobody wanted to call out the fact that his decisions in staff after Davis at OC and Muschamp at DC were poor and "we won in the past a whole bunch" isn't fixing not winning today.

Clearly, we are nowhere near that point but I don't want to sit around here looking at all my championship gear to reassure myself that nothing needs to change. Even JessN, a typically conservative and analytical voice on these things, has pointed out that there are things trending down that is beyond simple talent and experience. Some of it is recruiting poor athletic fits for an SEC that 75% spread principled with elements of tempo (and a national scene rapidly going nearly exclusively that direction). Some of it is mentality of the team fattened by their own success. Some of it has been middling replacements to assistants who have moved on and done big things elsewhere. Some of it is defensive scheme that puts too much on our DBs in a philosophical environment that requires being really good at executing basic things instead of trying to be in the perfect coverage every play.

This isn't entitlement. Entitlement is believing we have a birthright to win every game. Entitlement isn't pointing out that we tend to get beat the same way in the rare losses. These rare losses could become more common as teams in this conference identify these things as the way to breakthrough against the Tide. I consider it being forward thinking.
 

imauafan

All-American
Mar 3, 2004
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I would caution those who just pull the entitlement card to bat down those who think there need to be changes. That sort of culture is what led to Mack Brown's decline at Texas. Nobody wanted to call out the fact that his decisions in staff after Davis at OC and Muschamp at DC were poor and "we won in the past a whole bunch" isn't fixing not winning today.

Clearly, we are nowhere near that point but I don't want to sit around here looking at all my championship gear to reassure myself that nothing needs to change. Even JessN, a typically conservative and analytical voice on these things, has pointed out that there are things trending down that is beyond simple talent and experience. Some of it is recruiting poor athletic fits for an SEC that 75% spread principled with elements of tempo (and a national scene rapidly going nearly exclusively that direction). Some of it is mentality of the team fattened by their own success. Some of it has been middling replacements to assistants who have moved on and done big things elsewhere. Some of it is defensive scheme that puts too much on our DBs in a philosophical environment that requires being really good at executing basic things instead of trying to be in the perfect coverage every play.

This isn't entitlement. Entitlement is believing we have a birthright to win every game. Entitlement isn't pointing out that we tend to get beat the same way in the rare losses. These rare losses could become more common as teams in this conference identify these things as the way to breakthrough against the Tide. I consider it being forward thinking.
Outstanding! I wish I had written this.
 

B1GTide

TideFans Legend
Apr 13, 2012
45,588
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...This isn't entitlement. Entitlement is believing we have a birthright to win every game. Entitlement isn't pointing out that we tend to get beat the same way in the rare losses. These rare losses could become more common as teams in this conference identify these things as the way to breakthrough against the Tide. I consider it being forward thinking.
When trends are easily identified, you can bet that Saban is working on it. Applewhite is no longer your OC for a reason - Saban does not accept mediocrity on his coaching staff (or anywhere in the program). If a coach is a problem, he will know better than anyone posting on TideFans.

Another point - coorelation does not prove causation. Each loss in the last 2 seasons came to a team running a version of the HUNH, but each loss was very different. About the only thing similar is the fact that Alabama allowed more than 28 points in those games, which made errors committed by Alabama more costly. But f Alabama were able to eliminate those errors, Alabama still wins all of those games easily - even with the defensive efforts unchanged.
 

rgw

Suspended
Sep 15, 2003
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Yeah, I think Alabama makes too many offensive errors in games where they feel the need to score. That was even a problem in the SECCG last year but the way Lacy and Yeldon were playing made it not get us beat in the end. TAMU is another exception but they were so bad defensively that I don't know if they created the same mental strain about needing to be offensively effective or whatever it is. Some of it is Nussmeier's playcalling. This guy just abandons the run game too quickly ('12 TAMU and '13 OU games) when the deficit is not even over a single score in the 3rd quarter. Saban takes the credit for the UGA game last year because he told Nussmeier to throw out the gameplan and go to the run. He had the same problem in '12 LSU win too only to get bailed out by the 2-minute offense to end the game.
 

Alajambama

2nd Team
Jul 25, 2012
318
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Fyffe, AL
Re: Things to Fix Before We Go After Wholesale Changes in Philisophy

I think it might be a plus for team unity and spirit if there aren't a bunch of Sexton-fed stories about where Saban will be coaching the next season.

I understand the intent of all that Saban/Texas press was to influence the University's administration to come up with a nice raise, but I can't help but wonder if all that drama had any effect on the team.
My feelings excactly! The whole week before the barn game, this junk was all over social media and the sports networks. I know players had to at least wonder if anything was going to happen. Let's face it, if we had beaten the barn, we would watching the Tide play Monday night.
 

Alajambama

2nd Team
Jul 25, 2012
318
0
0
Fyffe, AL
I would like to believe that, but I don't. Winning the BCS Championship this year would have amounted to the greatest achievement in college football history. No silver lining in not achieving that possibility.

Now, if you want to say that losing to OU after dropping the game to Auburn could be a good thing, I am on board. The second loss in a row removed all doubt that even Alabama must play to its potential to win football games. It should work like the 2010 season in refocusing your team. A win against OU would have had the players focused on the "would have/could have" aspects of the 2013 season instead of the 2014 season (lone loss to Auburn). It would have them thinking that they could do the same things again and "as long as we don't have a team like Auburn pull out a miracle, we win". That is the type of attitude that impedes growth and gets in the way of hard work.

Alabama wins because of talent, coaching and hard work. Time to get back to work.
Most "dead on" post I've read in a long time.
 

4Q Basket Case

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Nov 8, 2004
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I've been reading lots of calls for "change" on the board. Some are calling for wholesale changes on defense, offense and even some hinting that perhaps CNS is becoming outdated.

Before we go there, I'd propose we fix some other things first:

1. Get back to a power running game that sets up the play action pass. Three things will bring this about next year: a new, inexperienced qb, an improved OL, and Henry! Our redzone struggles can be directly attributed to the fact we didn't have the confidence to pick up 2-3 yards in critical situations.

2. Eliminate giving opposing teams points off of turnovers/mistakes. Last night we contributed to OU getting 35 points. 35!!! 28 on turnovers and we took 7 off the score board when we got a TD called back by penalty.

3. Get attitudes corrected. This team didn't totally buy in. It was a problem all year long. The suspensions, penalties, busted plays are proof.

4. Get back to capable defensive back play. Hopefully this gets better with some new recruits coming in, but getting VS back and our young guys learning from their mistakes this year will create much better play their next year. Our lack of pass rush (which is something I agree must be tweaked) only exposed this problem even more.

5. Get hungry again. This is related to #3, but now that guys have tasted what losing is like, perhaps the team will develop the hunger that drove the last 3 NC teams.

CNS preaches attention to detail and these are details that need addressing. If we win the last two games nobody is calling for "big" changes. Get the little things fixed and we are back to Bama football as we've known it under CNS!!!
I don't disagree with anything you're advocating. But I'm not sure I see any reason to expect the OL to be improved next year. What do you see that I'm missing?
 

thunderz7

1st Team
Nov 6, 2001
694
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Some things are just obvious. Lots of things get put on an OC that are part of the HC's mind-set.
Bama's running game obviously goes better with a higher % of QB under center, thus play action likewise. We use too much Shotgun & Pistol.
We see a few wide receiver screens but not nearly enough to RBs, HBs & TEs. Not enough passes to RBs, HBs & TEs period.
Sometimes you just need a FB, we don't do it often enough. When we do put Fowler in at the FB spot, the Ds focus on where he goes to the extent of making it useless. If we used a FB more that would not be the case.
The toss sweep will still work if used.
When teams do have success stopping the HUNH, 4 man fronts have better success.
 

BamaMoon

Hall of Fame
Apr 1, 2004
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I don't disagree with anything you're advocating. But I'm not sure I see any reason to expect the OL to be improved next year. What do you see that I'm missing?
First, we've got a stud OL recruiting group coming in. Dump immediate talent into the group and it'll push the guys in front of them to get better fast.

Second, we only lose Steen for sure. If CK comes back (not sure where his head is after the SB) he'll get better. If not, there's a question mark at LT but big Cam Robinson coming in as an EE might provide the answer.

Third, as sure as it's about to cold in Alabama, I'm confident that our coaching staff will recommitt themselves to being more effective in the running game which begins with the big uglies getting nastier. The concerns we had after the Va. Tech game were realistic and although we got better during the middle part of the year, the lack of quality and consistent o-line play became our achilles heal the last two games.
 

JamieSPC

1st Team
Aug 29, 2004
785
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Tempo, tempo, tempo. If Saban and Smart don't figure that out, we will not be in contention for national championships. Because until they show we can handle it defensively, we will see it again and again and again. An informal survey of the year by yours truly reveals 80+% of tempo drives against us end in scores. The outlier is Ole Miss, and that is likely more of a talent issue. When Auburn and Oklahoma went tempo on us, it was no contest.
 

alwayshavebeen

All-SEC
Sep 22, 2013
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Tempo, tempo, tempo. If Saban and Smart don't figure that out, we will not be in contention for national championships. Because until they show we can handle it defensively, we will see it again and again and again. An informal survey of the year by yours truly reveals 80+% of tempo drives against us end in scores. The outlier is Ole Miss, and that is likely more of a talent issue. When Auburn and Oklahoma went tempo on us, it was no contest.
Said it before and say it again. The problem with Aub and OK had far more to do with personnel than schemes. Cornerback inconsistency and missing a super stud NG were primary. Not to mention turnovers against OK. Be glad to debate this with anyone.
 

BamaMoon

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Said it before and say it again. The problem with Aub and OK had far more to do with personnel than schemes. Cornerback inconsistency and missing a super stud NG were primary. Not to mention turnovers against OK. Be glad to debate this with anyone.
Personal affects schemes too. We just were not as dominant on the oline this year and that is the place to start in regrouping for next year. I'm watching the 2009 SEC game (Bama vs. FL.) and we are controling the game with a power rushing attack and some well timed passes. It's a thing of beauty to watch!!!
 

Bryant Ave

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Dec 4, 2013
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Cullman
Personal affects schemes too. We just were not as dominant on the oline this year and that is the place to start in regrouping for next year. I'm watching the 2009 SEC game (Bama vs. FL.) and we are controling the game with a power rushing attack and some well timed passes. It's a thing of beauty to watch!!!
This was a Bama team right before the annual NFL draft purge. There were probably some seniors that would have not been there if they were recruited a couple of years later.
 

alwayshavebeen

All-SEC
Sep 22, 2013
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Personal affects schemes too. We just were not as dominant on the oline this year and that is the place to start in regrouping for next year. I'm watching the 2009 SEC game (Bama vs. FL.) and we are controling the game with a power rushing attack and some well timed passes. It's a thing of beauty to watch!!!
Could not agree more. I just started with a couple of quick defensive illustrations. My point being we need basically no "wholesale" changes just the right players for what we are doing. Seems that some, albeit the minority, think there is more to it and I still welcome to go x's and o's or Jimmy's and Joe's with anyone that feels that way. It's all good.
 

Crimson_Knight

Scout Team
Jun 8, 2006
190
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Personal affects schemes too. We just were not as dominant on the oline this year and that is the place to start in regrouping for next year. I'm watching the 2009 SEC game (Bama vs. FL.) and we are controling the game with a power rushing attack and some well timed passes. It's a thing of beauty to watch!!!

This is where we will be going again. Count on it! A few tweaks on D to deal with the hurry up and folks getting on board. Can't wait for the Spring and next season. The schedule is setup to make it to the playoff and lets see what happens.
 

seebell

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Mar 12, 2012
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Said it before and say it again. The problem with Aub and OK had far more to do with personnel than schemes. Cornerback inconsistency and missing a super stud NG were primary. Not to mention turnovers against OK. Be glad to debate this with anyone.
I agree. A lock down corner and an All American NG would have made all the difference. Secondary looked like a Chinese fire drill on occasion. Last year we had one of the best O Lines in the history of college football. We could "impose" our will. Won't happen every year. No way we beat a good team with 5 turnovers. Stay the course schematically I say.
There is a reason no team has won 3 NC's in a row.
 

TIDEnGA

All-American
Sep 25, 2007
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Tempo, tempo, tempo. If Saban and Smart don't figure that out, we will not be in contention for national championships. Because until they show we can handle it defensively, we will see it again and again and again. An informal survey of the year by yours truly reveals 80+% of tempo drives against us end in scores. The outlier is Ole Miss, and that is likely more of a talent issue. When Auburn and Oklahoma went tempo on us, it was no contest.
Totally agree. I'm really trying not to be negative, but I appreciate you saying it like it is. Too many fans are blindly saying "oh it will get fixed. Saban will take care of it all". I hope so, but until he does I will worry.
 

alwayshavebeen

All-SEC
Sep 22, 2013
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Totally agree. I'm really trying not to be negative, but I appreciate you saying it like it is. Too many fans are blindly saying "oh it will get fixed. Saban will take care of it all". I hope so, but until he does I will worry.
I don't think you or anyone else is being negative feeling this way. IMO you are just wrong. Let's go further and talk some football IYW.
 

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