Saban's LSU Defenses were base 4-3

thunderz7 · Jan 5, 2014

Why are so many saying it is impossible for CNS to adjust, or readjust, to a defensive set other than this 3-4 Jack we have been running?
Until he took the Miami job his base D had been 4-3.

We have enough huge guys at NT, DT, & DE now to easily find 4 to 6 (maybe even more) to rotate by possession, not by play, at the 2 DT spots, to combat HUNH. (though against HUNH, it might be the smaller of the biggies that won out)

We have enough DEs, and big LBs, to find 4 to 6, to do the same for the 2 DE spots.

We certainly have enough LBs to get a good rotation.

Yep, that would change gap assignments and technique for the guys with their hands down, but it would be simpler for the majority.

Looking around the nation, at teams that do seem to be having the best success stopping HUNH, many more are 4-3.

oldtimetider · Jan 5, 2014

Who are these teams that have had the greatest success at stopping the HUNS? (typo..but decided I liked it.)

risingtide31-7 · Jan 5, 2014

"HUNS"... I like that! lol

gamersfuel · Jan 5, 2014

right now we dont have the DE's to run a 4-3.. if we changed the scheme though we could do it within the next 2 years as it would take time to recruit guys suitable to use it and for the current guys to adapt to it. We got some guys who would be beasts at DT in a 4-3 but they are limited to what they can do at the DE position. and of course we'd have to move more towards the smaller, quicker more athletic LB's..ever since the ATM game in 2012 i've been hoping we would incorporate some 4-3 concepts into our defensive scheme to help defend the HUNH.. or even some 4-6 bear

KentuckianaBFan · Jan 5, 2014

gamersfuel said:
right now we dont have the DE's to run a 4-3.. if we changed the scheme though we could do it within the next 2 years as it would take time to recruit guys suitable to use it and for the current guys to adapt to it. We got some guys who would be beasts at DT in a 4-3 but they are limited to what they can do at the DE position. and of course we'd have to move more towards the smaller, quicker more athletic LB's..ever since the ATM game in 2012 i've been hoping we would incorporate some 4-3 concepts into our defensive scheme to help defend the HUNH.. or even some 4-6 bear

What about JUCO?

braggtd · Jan 5, 2014

oldtimetider said:
Who are these teams that have had the greatest success at stopping the HUNS? (typo..but decided I liked it.)

Stanford and LSU are the only two that come to mind for me. Stanford runs a base 3-4 and LSU runs a base 4-3 I believe. Here is a interesting snip from a BR article about LSU vs TAMU.

"LSU ran its base 4-3 defense on 22 of the Aggies' 24 plays on their two opening drives, as Texas A&M moved swiftly, scoring nine points.
But then defensive coordinator John Chavis made a tactical switch that won the game for LSU. Chavis' innovative 3-2-6 "Mustang" defensive package has been troubling for opposing offenses. Chavis gets as much speed on the field as possible for LSU by having three defensive linemen, two linebackers and six defensive backs on the field at one time.

Link

CajunCrimson · Jan 5, 2014

What's funny, is that we are one Georgia DB making a bonehead defensive play from playing for our 3rd consecutive National Championship and we are ready to tell Nick Saban how to change his defense and recruit to counter the HUNH.

If you look at the last two recruiting classes (2013 and this one) -- you can see he's already making adjustments.....sometimes things don't work out the way you planned.....stuff happens.

From my perspective -- if we had had a Jesse Williams/Josh Chapman/Terrence Cody NT to truly clog up the middle, you wouldn't have seen nearly as many 4-3 alignments, thus allowing us to have one more LB on the field giving the safeties less run responsibility......allowing them to play more in coverage.

Also -- how many HUNH have won a NC? If Auburn wins -- you can go back to point #1 -- if the Georgia DB doesn't make a stupid play.....all of this is a moot point..... and you'll have Bama VS Bama Light playing for the BCSNC -- so, I think (as usual) -- we are overreacting.

braggtd · Jan 5, 2014

CajunCrimson said:
What's funny, is that we are one Georgia DB making a bonehead defensive play from playing for our 3rd consecutive National Championship and we are ready to tell Nick Saban how to change his defense and recruit to counter the HUNH.

If you look at the last two recruiting classes (2013 and this one) -- you can see he's already making adjustments.....sometimes things don't work out the way you planned.....stuff happens.

From my perspective -- if we had had a Jesse Williams/Josh Chapman/Terrence Cody NT to truly clog up the middle, you wouldn't have seen nearly as many 4-3 alignments, thus allowing us to have one more LB on the field giving the safeties less run responsibility......allowing them to play more in coverage.

Also -- how many HUNH have won a NC? If Auburn wins -- you can go back to point #1 -- if the Georgia DB doesn't make a stupid play.....all of this is a moot point..... and you'll have Bama VS Bama Light playing for the BCSNC -- so, I think (as usual) -- we are overreacting.

All of this is true but there is no doubting when the HUNH is ran effectively, Bama has had a tougher time with it compared to other offenses.

Auburn 400 yards 34 Points
Okie 429 yards 45 Points
Tamu 628 yards 42 Points
Tamu 418 yards (2012) 29 Points

CoastGhost · Jan 5, 2014

CajunCrimson said:
we are ready to tell Nick Saban how to change his defense and recruit to counter the HUNH.
...snip... -- so, I think (as usual) -- we are overreacting.

I don't know that its quite that bad yet! I doubt anyone here thinks CNS comes here for advice. I agree with you that the train is hardly off the tracks as some seem to feel. Looking at the HUNH success against our defense this year though, I believe CNS will have to make some tweaks to get the train back to full speed.

RTR91 · Jan 5, 2014

CajunCrimson said:
What's funny, is that we are one Georgia DB making a bonehead defensive play from playing for our 3rd consecutive National Championship and we are ready to tell Nick Saban how to change his defense and recruit to counter the HUNH.

If you look at the last two recruiting classes (2013 and this one) -- you can see he's already making adjustments.....sometimes things don't work out the way you planned.....stuff happens.

From my perspective -- if we had had a Jesse Williams/Josh Chapman/Terrence Cody NT to truly clog up the middle, you wouldn't have seen nearly as many 4-3 alignments, thus allowing us to have one more LB on the field giving the safeties less run responsibility......allowing them to play more in coverage.

Also -- how many HUNH have won a NC? If Auburn wins -- you can go back to point #1 -- if the Georgia DB doesn't make a stupid play.....all of this is a moot point..... and you'll have Bama VS Bama Light playing for the BCSNC -- so, I think (as usual) -- we are overreacting.

Yep. One Georgia DB's mistake is the reason for Alabama having issues with HUNH offenses.

CajunCrimson · Jan 5, 2014

braggtd said:
All of this is true but there is no doubting when the HUNH is ran effectively, Bama has had a tougher time with it compared to other offenses.

Auburn 400 yards 34 Points
Okie 429 yards 45 Points
Tamu 628 yards 42 Points
Tamu 418 yards (2012) 29 Points

Is this due to bad defense? Or to the tweaking of the rules in favor of the offense over the past couple of years?

We're fine -- in some ways losing like we did may cause us to refocus to the tune of 2-3 more NCs......Plus if this had been next year, we'd have played in the Nat'l Semifinals -- and possibly playing for the NC again.

We just don't need to overreact.......and for the most part, enjoy the ride. Sure we hit a pot hole or two -- but do you blame the car? Or do you blame the road? Or do you blame the idiots for screwing up the whole interstate highway system? lol.....

Right now we keep moving from blaming the car (The Process), to blaming the Road (The Game is passing us by) or blaming the idiots (The NCAA for not adjusting the rules to prevent the gimmick stuff from ruining the game)....

rgw · Jan 5, 2014

Saban did use "43 personnel" at LSU but it wasn't really a traditional 43 scheme. The best way to explain it would be to look at our typical implementation of base 34 here in Tuscaloosa. Our Jack LB puts his hand on the ground like a 43 WDE most plays. He still had a 2-gap nose tackle and preferred heavy DEs.

CajunCrimson · Jan 5, 2014

RTR91 said:
Yep. One Georgia DB's mistake is the reason for Alabama having issues with HUNH offenses.

That's not what I said -- what I said was we are one Georgia DB mistake from playing for our 3rd National Championship -- playing a traditional Pro-Style offense which fits our defensive style perfectly. We win 3 in a row -- and this whole "worry" thing is pointless.....

But your use of "Blue" was exquisite -- you should be proud of yourself......

thunderz7 · Jan 5, 2014

Good info in the link on the Mustang Package of LSU and the 3-2-6. Sunseri & Collins could make someone most miserable from that if CBs held up their end.

Bryant Ave · Jan 5, 2014

thunderz7 said:
Good info in the link on the Mustang Package of LSU and the 3-2-6. Sunseri & Collins could make someone most miserable from that if CBs held up their end.

Sunseri's tweener LB/SS size may be perfect for this package.

BamaInMo1 · Jan 5, 2014

Some tweaking definitely needs to be done as far as our defensive approach to the HUNH offenses we face. Do we need to just scrap everything? I think not.
Offensively this past season we replaced a lot of talent on the offensive line. Hard to just replace all that not miss a beat. Add to that we had a new offensive line coach to boot.
Defensively we were young and inexperienced in too many spots. Add to that the loss of VS and his leadership which certainly limited our defensive play calling at time.
All in all, though, Bama is in good shape and CNS & Co have not been passed by nor have they forgotten how to coach.

TydDFens · Jan 5, 2014

I don't think I have seen anybody bring up the fact that Oklahoma came and studied our defense. My vote goes to not letting other teams peek behind the curtain.

CoastGhost · Jan 5, 2014

Bryant Ave said:
Sunseri's tweener LB/SS size may be perfect for this package.

We started having our defensive trouble after Vinnie went down.

rgw · Jan 5, 2014

Well, we started having defensive trouble when we played a good offense in the second game then played nobody good until the LSU game. Mosley played a helluva game in the LSU game but the offense controlling the clock really help them to only 3 points in the second half. If not for that second half of the LSU game, we would have been pretty well burnt by every quality opponent we played. Even the Ole Miss team cost themselves probably 12 points due to their own coach's aggressiveness.

TideFan in AU · Jan 5, 2014

The basic question that everybody here needs to ask themselves is this: Would these offenses have done this against our 2011 or 2009 offense? If you think that they would, then we need change the scheme. If not, then we need to have good experienced CB's, a good NT, and good JLB. That to me is the difference this year. I'm not knocking anybody, but it is what it is. We didn't have the production at the Jack position last year like we in 2009 and 2011, and the defense took a step back because of it, but Miliner/Belue and Jesse Williams kept the defense still very good. This year we lacked production at the three most crucial positions to make the 3-4 over/under scheme work.

Do you all remember when Jesse Williams went down in the UGA game last year? Ivory was hurt also, and Damien Square was playing NT. UGA absolutely gashed us - much like AU did this year. Williams came back in game, and even though he was less than 100%, we immediately went back to stopping thier running game.

I'm not saying that tweaks and some new wrinkles aren't needed, but this year's defense is not indicative of how Saban/Smart's defense is when all the right pieces are in place.

Saban's LSU Defenses were base 4-3

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