Nussmeier/Replacement at OC (keep OC discussion here)

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PacadermaTideUs

All-American
Dec 10, 2009
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Re: Nussmeier to Michigan

When I first saw this thread, my first thought was that I wasn't surprised - like many, I wasn't particularly pleased with play-calling this year. When I considered the possibility of Kiffin being his replacement, I got wide-eyed, and not necessarily in a good way. So I decided to look into Kiff's overarching offensive philosophies and in the process found myself on a Notre Dame message board, where ND fans were discussing the recent Kiffin consult in Tuscaloosa.

Many were wondering why we even needed a consult, saying our offense has looked pretty "stout" over the previous 2 years. That isn't typically a description our offense gets from opposing fans (usually, it's "Bama's defense is incredible, but their offense is mediocre at best") and hasn't really been my impression, particularly with this year's 25 vs Ole Miss, 20 vs MSU and 28 vs Aub. So that made me wonder: how have Nuss's offenses actually performed vs recent Bama offenses? After a little bit of investigation and number crunching, this is what I've found:

The 2012 and 2013 offenses have had the two highest point totals per game of the most recent 5 seasons, including all three of our NCs since 2009. Since that contradicted my impressions, I figured that maybe we only had higher point totals solely because we had more possessions, perhaps due to the more recent popularity of HUNH and the acceleration of the game. So I decided to isolate only offensive points scored per offensive possession (did not include points scored by special teams or defense), which should yield more accurate estimations of offensive efficiency. Same result: the most efficient years of the previous five, in terms of offensive points scored per offensive possession, were 2012 and 2013.

The actual numbers:

Raw points/game
2013: 38.2
2012: 38.7
2011: 34.8
2010: 35.7
2009: 32.1

Offensive points/possession:
2013: 2.76
2012: 2.89
2011: 2.62
2010: 2.72
2009: 2.35

So no matter how you cut it, whether I liked the recent play-calling or not, Nuss's offenses put more points on the board for the good guys than we've seen in quite some time.

I have to think that if he was, so to speak, "not strongly encouraged to stay", it wasn't due to play-calling or overall offensive philosophy, but rather to the creep of increasing sloppiness which led to even more points being left on the field - red-zone fumbles, dropped passes, missed blocks, etc. Though those things are certainly a lack of player execution, they may also more broadly be indicative of a lack of OC ability to adequately lead positional assistants in maximizing player buy-in in "The Process".

That said, the two worst years defensively in the same two categories listed above (raw scoring allowed/game, and offensive scoring allowed/drive) happen to be the same two years we failed to compete in either the SECCG or the NCG: 2010 and 2013. So I have to think our biggest let-downs over the past five years have more to do with defense than with offense.

Raw points/game allowed
2013: 13.9
2012: 10.9
2011: 8.2
2010: 13.5
2009: 11.7

Offensive points/possession allowed:
2013: 1.01
2012: 0.80
2011: 0.51
2010: 1.06
2009: 0.76

As for Kiff? May be a great offensive mind - I don't know. But I'm not sure he would be an improvement in terms of character or motivating player buy-in in "The Process". But hey, I trust Coach Saban to make better personnel decisions from the front office than I could from my living room.
 
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TitleWave

All-American
Dec 3, 2012
3,173
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Re: Nussmeier to Michigan

So to extrapolate, hiring both Coaches O and K gives 'Bama a better than OK offense, especially if Coach Neu-Bet-The-House-el came along too to start a Sports Betting Program in the Culverhouse School of Bidness... Welcome to Nick's Halfway House for Coaching Redemption.
 
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bamaee04

All-SEC
Nov 15, 2004
1,237
105
82
Birmingham, AL
Re: Nussmeier to Michigan

After the way things played out down the stretch and some of the playcalling earlier in the season and even last year, I can't say I am disappointed he is moving on. The LK hire if it happens would surely ruffle some feathers, but he could be a diamond in the rough if CNS straightens him out and knocks his ego down a few notches. I am excited for the future!
 

Chukker Veteran

Hall of Fame
Feb 6, 2001
10,608
5,098
287
Re: Nussmeier to Michigan

Lane Kiffen is a national punchline. A laughingstock, a failed coach known for being obnoxious. Surely Saban isn't so isolated from the general public that he doesn't appreciate how awful Kiffen has been.

I hope Kiffen isn't given a chance to rehabilitate his reputation at Bama. Odds are he would end up reminding us why everybody who's dealt with him consider him bad news.
 

Alasippi

Suspended
Aug 31, 2007
12,875
2
57
Ocean Springs, MS
Re: Nussmeier to Michigan

Hellfire, Joe Kines could call better offensive plays than he did. Almost felt like Shula was calling plays this year.

SABAN knows what he's doing. Let's Roll
I thought Nuss was the second best OC we've ever had, next to Homer Smith. If anything, I think Coach Saban may have held him in check a bit, which obviously now didn't sit too well with Nuss because he left for bigger bucks and what he obviously considers to be a better opportunity for himself.
Personally I don't think you'll ever see Lane Kiffin serving as a coordinator anywhere again. Too much ego, plus he's still getting paid big bucks from his previous contract with USC even though he was fired. Anything he made as an OC would count against what USC has to pay him.
I think he'll sit back, count his money, and wait for a HC position somewhere.
Our problems this year weren't caused by our offense. We scored plenty of points and plenty enough to win every game we played.
When you give up 42 to A&M, 34 to Auburn, and 45 to Oklahoma it's not the OC's fault, the blame rests on the shoulders of those who coached the defense. Now who would that be?
I wish coach Nuss the best. I thought he did a great job. The comeback drive against LSU in Baton Rouge was possibly the most timely play calling I've ever witnessed. Good luck Coach! sip
 

thunderz7

1st Team
Nov 6, 2001
694
75
147
northeast alabama usa
TROUBLE follows Lane Kiffin

Maybe I can say this being, at the moment, Kiffin is not a member of the Bama staff.
Trouble and stupidity have followed Kiffin's career.
Cheating and NCAA investigation go hand in hand with him.
Having him on the staff at Bama would be a disaster.
I have no respect for him, and would loose respect for anyone who would hire him.
 

KrAzY3

Hall of Fame
Jan 18, 2006
10,617
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kraizy.art
Re: Nussmeier to Michigan

When I first saw this thread, my first thought was that I wasn't surprised - like many, I wasn't particularly pleased with play-calling this year. When I considered the possibility of Kiffin being his replacement, I got wide-eyed, and not necessarily in a good way. So I decided to look into Kiff's overarching offensive philosophies and in the process found myself on a Notre Dame message board, where ND fans were discussing the recent Kiffin consult in Tuscaloosa.

Many were wondering why we even needed a consult, saying our offense has looked pretty "stout" over the previous 2 years. That isn't typically a description our offense gets from opposing fans (usually, it's "Bama's defense is incredible, but their offense is mediocre at best") and hasn't really been my impression, particularly with this year's 25 vs Ole Miss, 20 vs MSU and 28 vs Aub. So that made me wonder: how have Nuss's offenses actually performed vs recent Bama offenses? After a little bit of investigation and number crunching, this is what I've found:
I've been pretty defensive about the coaches, and I think you highlighted some of the reasons. The offense really has been good, especially considering Alabama ran one of the slowest offenses in the nation (and that's by design). I suppose the question becomes has it been as good as it could be? I tend to think it's been about as good as we have a right to expect, but then it gets into things like player development, situational play calling, etc...

At this point in time, we really don't know why Nuss left. Did Saban push him out? Did Nuss just get unhappy with the situation on his own? I think the hire might give us some insight, if it's someone like Kiffin, it's reasonable to assume that was the plan all along.

Also, I think your stats showed that the defense just wasn't as good, but I still see that as a combination of execution, and the loss of veterans. To have an elite defense, you need a lot more than talent (as Auburn routinely demonstrates), and a good scheme.

Anyway, I don't really share a negative viewpoint on Kiffin as a coordinator. He's a terrible head coach (although he might develop into a good one, he's still young), but he was a fantastic coordinator and recruiter. Alabama's offense did great under Nuss, but USC under Kiffin averaged almost 600 yards per game. His recruiting prowess is also remarkable, and he's been recruiting some of the top guys out there, so he could more than offset the loss of Nuss. He's one of the few guys that would keep me from being disappointed in Nuss leaving. I guess I'm just one of those guys that doesn't think being a bad head coach makes someone a bad coach period (like Mike Shula for instance).

You really want to drive Alabama fans nuts? Consider Kiffin as a replacement for Saban. That does sound crazy right now, doesn't it? But, he's four years younger than Muschamp, ten years younger than Jimbo, 13 years younger than McElwain, 5 years younger than Cristobal, and he's the same age as Kirby Smart. It's not out of the question that Kiffin could see being hired at Alabama as a chance to rehab his image, and learn what he's been doing wrong. If we accept the notion that coaching underneath Saban makes a guy like Smart ready to be a head coach, I think we at least in Kiffin's mind, coaching underneath Saban might get his career back on track and give him a shot at replacing Saban. If he learns better maturity and leadership skills he really could be a good head coach.
 

hacksaw830

2nd Team
Jan 20, 2007
313
0
0
Re: TROUBLE follows Lane Kiffin

And trouble ends with Nick Saban, ask the old boy that gave Ha Ha a loan.
 

Chukker Veteran

Hall of Fame
Feb 6, 2001
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Re: Nussmeier to Michigan

My impression of Kiffen's recruiting tactics was to pose as a "bad boy" himself, where kids with behavior problems were encouraged to sign up to join up with the punk coach.

I guess that may or may not be an accurate assessment of the way Kiffen approached recruiting, but it's one I came to reading this board along with national press.
 

derek4tide

Hall of Fame
Jan 19, 2005
11,492
1
0
Daphne, AL
Re: TROUBLE follows Lane Kiffin

If Kiffin is named, I 'm sure Coach Saban can handle it. Maybe you can call Coach and let him know how you feel. :rolleyes:
 

AlexanderFan

Hall of Fame
Jul 23, 2004
11,201
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Re: TROUBLE follows Lane Kiffin

He's been trouble at the places where he's been in charge. Safe to say that won't be the case here.

Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Tapatalk
 

FitToBeTide

All-American
Aug 19, 2001
4,214
834
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St. Florian
Re: TROUBLE follows Lane Kiffin

If you haven't yet, read Jess' column at the top. It's a great breakdown of possible OC candidates. I did notice that Kiffin's name was at the top of his list of names, if that means anything.
 

bamadws56

All-SEC
Sep 24, 2005
1,042
773
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Fort Benning, GA
Re: TROUBLE follows Lane Kiffin

Look who Lane worked for: Pete "I'll let any NFL Agent have access to my program" Carrol. He may have been a buffoon at his last two stops, but I don't remember him acting out under Carrol. He's had a dose of humble pie after the implosion at USC. He's a good coach and could help our program. Coach Saban can handle Lane Kiffin.
 

CraigD

All-American
Aug 8, 2006
2,326
751
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Columbus, GA
Re: Nussmeier to Michigan

Bama's offense was very good under Nuss. However, we had arguably the best offensive talent ever assembled at Alabama on the roster during his tenure. There were an awful lot of head-scratching moments of playcalling for my taste (Auburn this year, aTm last year come to mind). I also wonder about some approach/strategy/game plan decisions (throw to the H-Back or TE, anyone?). Admittedly, I don't know if those calls came from the top (Saban) or from Nuss.

Overall I find myself feeling indifferent about Nuss leaving. I appreciate what he did while here, but am a little excited about what the change might bring.
 
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bamafaninOhiO

All-American
May 11, 2010
2,114
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Dayton, Ohio
Re: TROUBLE follows Lane Kiffin

Kiffin has not had success as a head coach, but we're not hiring a head coach....

He's had a lot of success as an offensive coordinator, and he's a fantastic recruiter.

There are a lot worse hires out there for OC than Kiffin.
 

Bamabuzzard

FB Moderator
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Aug 15, 2004
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Re: Nussmeier to Michigan

Saban's policy of not letting coordinators not talk to media would go a long way towards keeping Kiffin's ego in check.

Personally, I think it would be a very interesting hire...not sure he'd be around for more than a couple of years, but he knows offense.
I think Saban gets a two year commitment before hiring anyone.....that is unless after year one he asked you to leave.
 

TideFan in AU

Hall of Fame
Re: Nussmeier to Michigan

I really don't see it being Kiffin. The media would spin that like CNS hired Nuss' replacement in public before the season was over. I don't think that's a trap CNS would fall into. No one has predicted who CNS was going to hire as OC before, so I don't know why this time would be any different. Maybe I'm wrong...
 

AgentAntiOrange

1st Team
Dec 30, 2009
888
0
0
Norman, OK
Re: TROUBLE follows Lane Kiffin

Maybe I can say this being, at the moment, Kiffin is not a member of the Bama staff.
Trouble and stupidity have followed Kiffin's career.
Cheating and NCAA investigation go hand in hand with him.
Having him on the staff at Bama would be a disaster.
I have no respect for him, and would loose respect for anyone who would hire him.
I think I get what your trying to say without actually saying because it might not go over well. I'm with you 100% on this.
 
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