The Tale of Two Programs

Yeah- I thought that it was the beginning of a nice run for us under Grant. We've never played up to our capabilities with this staff. Even the year we made the dance, one and done. Now- granted Releford was fouled when he took that shot against Creighton and we prob should have won but if that's all you can hang your hat on after 5 years....there's a problem.

The last several games, except for Missouri, the team has improved when getting the ball to a big guy at the free throw line with another big down low. So a little improvement. The dribbling into trouble and leaving the ground with not place to go still continues though but there have been times (e.g. 1st half vs Missouri) when the passes are sharp with good ball movement and fakes. The players were driving when there were openings but not forcing it during a good stretch of the 1st half.

Coach Grant looked like he was experimenting vs Missouri when he put in the 4-guard lineup in the 2nd half. This may have been a defensive move with the attempt of getting steals from the 1-3-1 defense then pushing the offense off of that but also gave more driving opportunities for the offense.

Releford will be a huge loss for next season but the team has a chance to be better as Hale and Taylor mature and depending on how the transfers and new players fit in and contribute. I wish this was the group going into Grant's 1st couple of years because I think there is more potential with these guys but Coach Grant will likely be on thin ice next season regarding results (unless he's gone by then).

I don't know what's up with Jacobs. Is he in the doghouse or just not performing like Coach Grant wants?

Ldlane said:

Agree. The thing that bothers me is the hesitation of shooting the open shot, or even movement on offense without the ball. We have a line-up that can crack the zone. I explained in the thread about using the HP move to draw the defense for open jumpers or cuts along the baseline into the zone. We rarely do it and when we do and the ball is passed out to the perimeter we fail to shoot the open J. It's just frustrating watch. That is "basic" basketball against a Zone. On the other hand we overload the ball side of the zone not everyone moves to that side of the court 90% of the time. It looks like there is one person on the team that has the "green light" to let if fly and that is TR. The others just end up passing the ball to him and watching him play.

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I too get so frustrated with the players passing up short and mid-range jumpers when they actually work hard on offense to get in position for it. These opportunities come off of good passing and also off of good drives with an opportunity to pull up in an open spot. Too many times they pass up the shot attempt only for the possession to end in a turnover with no shot attempt at all. Hale, Randolph, and Cooper all have shown a decent jumper (Cooper's is not mechanically pleasing to watch). Jacob has a nice shot but he has never had a hesitation to shoot. Key doesn't seem to have adjusted quite yet. Obasahon definitely has the ability but needs to get a little smoother and would be indefensible.

I'm really not much of a basketball fan though I do watch the game some and follow how the team does. That being said, I do want every one of the 21 teams we have to do well.

I thought Grant had the team moving in the right direction.

First year-No postseason
Second year-NIT finals
Third year-NCAA first round

The ending to the NCAA game was controversial, but if a game comes down to one shot you can't really be blaming the refs as the whole thing could have gone either way. Still, we had been improving gradually and hoped for a deeper tourney run but slipped back to a NIT quarterfinal loss. This year is looking like we'll be lucky to make the NIT. Yes, we've played a tough schedule and lost close games, but you still need to win some of those.

Unless we totally fall apart and go 6-12 in the league, I think Grant will get one more year to turn it around.

Crimson1967 said:

I'm really not much of a basketball fan though I do watch the game some and follow how the team does. That being said, I do want every one of the 21 teams we have to do well.

I thought Grant had the team moving in the right direction.

First year-No postseason
Second year-NIT finals
Third year-NCAA first round

The ending to the NCAA game was controversial, but if a game comes down to one shot you can't really be blaming the refs as the whole thing could have gone either way. Still, we had been improving gradually and hoped for a deeper tourney run but slipped back to a NIT quarterfinal loss. This year is looking like we'll be lucky to make the NIT. Yes, we've played a tough schedule and lost close games, but you still need to win some of those.

Unless we totally fall apart and go 6-12 in the league, I think Grant will get one more year to turn it around.

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After that third year, we lost two post players who were difference makers at times. We have never had a post threat since, which can be overcome in college basketball with good ball movement and perimeter shooting. Unfortunately, we don't shoot the ball very well, nor do we rebound worth a flip. Well, that only leaves an up-tempo pressing style, but we couldn't do that last year because we had no depth. I like how Coach Grant's teams almost always seem to play hard. However, I can't decide if he has just been snake-bit with some bad luck, or if he isn't recruiting the kids we need. I must admit that I can't watch much this year. I keep trying to watch, but it is painful. I am hoping for him to get another year to see if he can do well with the group that will be seniors next year and the young talent coming in. It is looking like Bill Battle needs to start putting together a list of coaches, though.

Additionally, we've had a number of players who haven't exactly panned out.

For as good as J. Green was, wasn't he suspended on and off and missed several games during his senior season. I could understand this as a freshman, but a senior? C'mon.

Also, T. Mitchell was supposed to be a beast and he had attitude problems and ended up leaving.

Two of Grant's biggest recruits (Lacey/Pollard) have transferred/left school.

Defections in any sport are huge, but when you start losing multiple players (especially in basketball) you're going to be in trouble. And that's where we are right now.

37bamagreats55 said:

Additionally, we've had a number of players who haven't exactly panned out.

For as good as J. Green was, wasn't he suspended on and off and missed several games during his senior season. I could understand this as a freshman, but a senior? C'mon.

Also, T. Mitchell was supposed to be a beast and he had attitude problems and ended up leaving.

Two of Grant's biggest recruits (Lacey/Pollard) have transferred/left school.

Defections in any sport are huge, but when you start losing multiple players (especially in basketball) you're going to be in trouble. And that's where we are right now.

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http://tide991.com/recruiting-and-roster-management-plagues-alabama-basketball/

Great article written at the completion of our season last year. BTW...the writer of the article called it: "unless something drastically changes for the better in the next few months, this team will remain in basketball purgatory for yet another season".

I truly believe there is an underlying reason for our roster management issues. A coach has to develop the talent/player they recruit, or have a plan to fill that roster spot upon the player leaving. It is obvious that Coach Grant has not had a plan to fill the roster spot when defections. The players also have to believe their coach can get them to the next level. Since no defense is played at the next level, you must be developed in your offensive skills at the collegiate level, and players have to be put in a system where they can succeed. Sound pretty simple to a me! As a supporter with my mouth and my pocketbook, I can honestly say I do not understand our offensive philosophy. And, many times it looks as though the players are unsure also. I also don't see improvement in our players offensive skills throughout their careers. Grant desperately needs an offensive minded assistant or two that can provide some offensive continuity, excitement,honing of offensive skills, etc. If not, we will have more of the same.

On another note, if you want to compare "apples to apples" (comparable programs). Look at Florida...they are a "football school" (at least until Muschamp), and have developed in to a great basketball school. So, it can be down.

BigA said:

http://tide991.com/recruiting-and-roster-management-plagues-alabama-basketball/

Great article written at the completion of our season last year. BTW...the writer of the article called it: "unless something drastically changes for the better in the next few months, this team will remain in basketball purgatory for yet another season".

I truly believe there is an underlying reason for our roster management issues. A coach has to develop the talent/player they recruit, or have a plan to fill that roster spot upon the player leaving. It is obvious that Coach Grant has not had a plan to fill the roster spot when defections. The players also have to believe their coach can get them to the next level. Since no defense is played at the next level, you must be developed in your offensive skills at the collegiate level, and players have to be put in a system where they can succeed. Sound pretty simple to a me! As a supporter with my mouth and my pocketbook, I can honestly say I do not understand our offensive philosophy. And, many times it looks as though the players are unsure also. I also don't see improvement in our players offensive skills throughout their careers. Grant desperately needs an offensive minded assistant or two that can provide some offensive continuity, excitement,honing of offensive skills, etc. If not, we will have more of the same.

On another note, if you want to compare "apples to apples" (comparable programs). Look at Florida...they are a "football school" (at least until Muschamp), and have developed in to a great basketball school. So, it can be down.

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I concur. Also, even more baffling is the fact that Grant is a disciple of Billy Donovan. One thing Florida hasn't lacked since Donovan has been there is offense.

I still hope Grant can get it done. A lot of people have thrown in the towel on him having any success for Alabama. I hope he stays, makes a few important changes (hires) and can have some success. Maybe it's not too late.

37bamagreats55 said:

I concur. Also, even more baffling is the fact that Grant is a disciple of Billy Donovan. One thing Florida hasn't lacked since Donovan has been there is offense.

I still hope Grant can get it done. A lot of people have thrown in the towel on him having any success for Alabama. I hope he stays, makes a few important changes (hires) and can have some success. Maybe it's not too late.

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This has been discussed a few times before. CAG runs his offense inside-out, which is the same way as Donovan's Florida teams. His teams have offense because they've had a quality big man to open up the perimeter. Alabama, OTOH, has a lazy guy with plenty of potential, Engstrom, and a young guy in Taylor.

CajunCrimson said:

Maybe it's me, but Coach Grant seems to be too unemotional to be a players coach, and too passive to be a disciplinarian. He makes disciplinary decisions after the fact, but no one seems to be scared of him.

I ultimately think his inability to ID post talent is hurting him the most. Mitchell and Green were carryovers, we haven't had post talent since.

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I am sure that he is able to identify talent - the problem comes in getting them to commit to him and the program. There are so many options to play in a quality basketball program across the country now even at the mid major level you cant bank on home state talent to come to your school. Furthermore, he has no track record for recruiting and developing talent - not even at VCU. Sure he had some success with Capel's players but Shaka Smart really unleashed the potential of CAG's recruits.

I dont really know what to do in this situation without knowing all the details. I have always felt that maybe his hands were tied somewhat by the AD but I dont have any basis for this opinion. While he may not have the absolutely best facilities in the conference or country, I do know that he is not handcuffed from a facilities standpoint and resources standpoint in a material way.

Bottom line, I think CAG is just a conservative introverted coach at heart. While looking at the on court results, I also base this on the fact that he has done nothing to promote this program other than his contractually required cameo on Hey Coach. He makes no regular appearances on JOX, etc despite repeated invitations to do so. I hate to say it but our program from a marketability standpoint has the notoriety of a DII program. Sure none of this would matter as much if he were winning more and putting a few players in the league. But promoting your program is still a very important aspect in your success.

Imo, while he still has the head coaching job, CAG needs to make some drastic changes in his approach to his program - offensive philosophy, recruiting, and marketing. Despite wins and losses, he needs eyes on the program and right now he has nobody watching.

I disagree. CAG is NOT hindered by anything from a monetary point of view. While our facilities are not top of the line, they are adequate in relation to some of the schools we compete against for recruits. He got Coleman to be a mens basketball only arena (other than Gymnastics). He got a new weight room and practice facility. He has his own strength and conditioning coach. We did get 3 of the 4 top recruits in Alabama this year. We always seem to be missing a piece of the puzzle and this year maybe 2. We have no big man who can rebound consistently. We don't have a true PG either. Rebounding has been a major issue the last 2 years. I also do not understand his substitution pattern at all. This year is shot so let the younger kids get experience.

BTW, Engstrom is not lazy, he works as hard or harder than any player on the court. He is not the most skilled, but he is still learning really. Most of the guys he plays against started to play when they were 4 or 5 and he started in high school so cut him a little slack. Both Taylor and Hale are talented so the future could be decent next year.

Player development is the issue I see. Ask yourself, are any of CAG recruits better players today than they were when they arrived in T-town?

I agree with Rama Jama. Releford might be the only player who has developed, but I wonder how much of this was his off season summer work put in with his brother back in KC.

Rama Jama said:

I disagree. CAG is NOT hindered by anything from a monetary point of view. While our facilities are not top of the line, they are adequate in relation to some of the schools we compete against for recruits. He got Coleman to be a mens basketball only arena (other than Gymnastics). He got a new weight room and practice facility. He has his own strength and conditioning coach. We did get 3 of the 4 top recruits in Alabama this year. We always seem to be missing a piece of the puzzle and this year maybe 2. We have no big man who can rebound consistently. We don't have a true PG either. Rebounding has been a major issue the last 2 years. I also do not understand his substitution pattern at all. This year is shot so let the younger kids get experience.

BTW, Engstrom is not lazy, he works as hard or harder than any player on the court. He is not the most skilled, but he is still learning really. Most of the guys he plays against started to play when they were 4 or 5 and he started in high school so cut him a little slack. Both Taylor and Hale are talented so the future could be decent next year.

Player development is the issue I see. Ask yourself, are any of CAG recruits better players today than they were when they arrived in T-town?

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I wasn't calling Engstrom lazy. I was referring to Nick Jacobs.

RTR91 said:

I wasn't calling Engstrom lazy. I was referring to Nick Jacobs.

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Sorry misinterpreted that. I thought Jacobs was going to be rebounding glass eater when I 1st saw video on him in high school. He has been anything, but. The way we shoot, if he would rebound he'd score another 8 points a game at least. If you are not a particularly skilled shooting team, you have to rebound to just be competitive. Our guards have to help rebound which leads to run outs by the other team with no one to defend them.