JessN: Commentary: Furor over HUNH offenses won’t end quickly

BamaMoon said:

No, an injured player needs to come out.

A tired player is part of the game and since the current rules dictate that the offense can control the pace a tired player equals an advantage for the offensive team. That's why they are doing it.

Will a tired player be more likely to get hurt??? I don't know. I suspect he might.

I don't have an answer to this, but I just don't like the idea of acting like you are hurt when you are not.

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Vine Lombardi said: "Fatigue makes cowards of us all." It doesn't just steal your speed, it takes your fight and resolve as well. It turns a hero into a coward. To think while all this fatigue is going on it's not affecting your health, emotionally and physically, would be somewhat mind boggling. A fresh players hits you and you can't muster the power and quickness to meet force with force anymore. Or you're not quick enough, fast enough, physically prepared enough to get into good hitting position, how can that not translate into more injuries? And I might add, a dramatic turn on the scoreboard.

B1GTide said:

Would you support a rule change that specifically allowed for a player to ask out of the game without a charged timeout to handle this situation? Player raises his hand and a defensive substitution is allowed as long as it happens within a specified period within the 40 second clock - say within the first 10 seconds?

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I had a reply typed out in which I said something similar. That would work as well, 10 second idea isn't bad, so they have within that time frame to do it. They need a mechanism to come out though, that's for sure. I don't want flopping either, but I'd like that much more than forcing a kid to stay out there and risk further injury when he wants to come out.

I've mentioned it before, but the Prothro injury comes to mind. He fractured his leg on a hit, was mobile, but his continuing to play turned into a life altering condition. If a coach sees a hit like that and wants the player out, or the player feels gimpy and wants to come out, there's just no moral justification to his being forced to stay out there. Even if the injury seems very minor, it shouldn't be up to you, or I, or the ref (and certainly not the other team!) or what not to tell him he can't come out.

B1GTide said:

Would you support a rule change that specifically allowed for a player to ask out of the game without a charged timeout to handle this situation? Player raises his hand and a defensive substitution is allowed as long as it happens within a specified period within the 40 second clock - say within the first 10 seconds?

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Sure! It's an option.

Maybe allowing the defense an extra time out or two a game might be an idea in order for a coach to stop play more. Create a 30 second timeout for football. Maybe a team couold have 3 full and 3 thirties in a half.

The flop thing just makes me uncomfortable. That's all. It goes againts who I am personally. I understand if some disagree.

TUSKtimes said:

Vine Lombardi said: "Fatigue makes cowards of us all." It doesn't just steal your speed, it takes your fight and resolve as well. It turns a hero into a coward. To think while all this fatigue is going on it's not affecting your health, emotionally and physically, would be somewhat mind boggling. A fresh players hits you and you can't muster the power and quickness to meet force with force anymore. Or you're not quick enough, fast enough, physically prepared enough to get into good hitting position, how can that not translate into more injuries? And I might add, a dramatic turn on the scoreboard.

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I don't disagree. That's why this is complicated. But I hope they can figure out a way to resolve this without it coming to a player acting like he's hurt when he's not.

BamaMoon said:

I don't disagree. That's why this is complicated. But I hope they can figure out a way to resolve this without it coming to a player acting like he's hurt when he's not.

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The HUNH defenses are just as guilty of flopping as anyone else. Talk about wanting things their way? Right now, I care about Alabama and you don't want what's best for Bama without wanting the defensive players to meet their opponent on a level field. Lots of innovative defensive coordinators who want to show what they have as well. Be it, player talent, schemes, sets, packages they want, in down and distance circumstances. If the NCAA doesn't allow that to happen then you get plan B. Plan B doesn't mean the conversation is over on the subject, it just means we haven't got their attention, yet.

I enjoy irony, so my fervent hope is that all this flopping already being seen by the HUNH teams will soon contribute to the world's greatest self inflicted wound, since the charge of the light brigade.

BamaMoon said:

I don't disagree. That's why this is complicated. But I hope they can figure out a way to resolve this without it coming to a player acting like he's hurt when he's not.

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That's the thing - we all want to win, but integrity is more important. When I learned of the decisions made by the players under Tressel, I was disgusted. When I heard how Tressel tried to cover it up, I prayed that he would be fired. Tressel was a great coach, but his lack of integrity tainted our entire program. I would rather that OSU lose without him than win with him.

Flopping has a bad feel to me, but so does the "prairie dog" offense.

For my part, I believe that Saban will continue to find answers to this offense without flopping, because I just don't see him doing that.

To bring this issue to a head and fast. Teams need to utilize the flop this year and use it a lot. This may wake up the NCAA to do something to get the game back on a level playing field. I do not really care for faking injuries but until something is done this is what we will get.

I agree, the game is constantly changing, and Coaches and teams have made the correct adjustments to compensate. If I recall correctly, The wishbone offense caused opponents to adapt.
If it causes Referees to adjust i.e. Linemen starting downfield too early. There were many instances of that last year, but Refs couldn't react quick enough to catch it.

Fans have selective outrage with this. You can bet if CNS were running this type of offense everyone would be upset.

I have really complain about player safety, but it comes down to the refs getting in position to make the right call. I've never like the offense because it's like a way to cheat, IMO. It is like in a race and I'm already 10 yards down the field before I yell go. I do hope something happens sooner rather than later.


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This says it all.

This year under Malzahn against Arkansas, with Ark. on the goal line Swain looks to the sideline and crumples to the ground so #90 can sprint off the field.

That was an obvious signal from the sideline to FAKE an injury to allow auburn to substitute.

Bumping. This Flop was part of the gameplan, and had been rehearsed. I can't remember us using this tactic although I may have missed it.

If I was a DC facing a HUNH offense, I would use the flop often. Fight fire with fire.

derek4tide said:

If I was a DC facing a HUNH offense, I would use the flop often. Fight fire with fire.

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I would, too - I am just not sure that Saban will.

conversation won't end quickly, and it's been around for quite a while longer than many are letting on...

http://madvertiserblogs.com/rankinfile/2013/08/31/bowden-fsu-put-the-fast-break-in-major-college-football/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Run_and_shoot_offense


http://espn.go.com/college-football/preview12/story/_/id/8269146/college-football-copying-way-life-college-football-coaches

Run-n shoot (80s), Fast Break (90s), Spread (2000s), and now HUNH (2010s)...it's been around and will continue to be around. Best quote from last article, "but Homer Smith at Alabama also ran the hurry-up in the 1980s."

As others have suggested, the problem isn't with the rules (no rules change is needed), it's with the enforcement (or lack thereof) of the rules in place.

B1GTide said:

I would, too - I am just not sure that Saban will.

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Coach might not, but you think the players will?:rolleye2:

dadleyblane5 said:

Coach might not, but you think the players will?:rolleye2:

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Not if coach doesn't want it.

USCBAMA said:

conversation won't end quickly, and it's been around for quite a while longer than many are letting on...

http://madvertiserblogs.com/rankinfile/2013/08/31/bowden-fsu-put-the-fast-break-in-major-college-football/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Run_and_shoot_offense


http://espn.go.com/college-football/preview12/story/_/id/8269146/college-football-copying-way-life-college-football-coaches

Run-n shoot (80s), Fast Break (90s), Spread (2000s), and now HUNH (2010s)...it's been around and will continue to be around. Best quote from last article, "but Homer Smith at Alabama also ran the hurry-up in the 1980s."

As others have suggested, the problem isn't with the rules (no rules change is needed), it's with the enforcement (or lack thereof) of the rules in place.

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As has been said ad nauseam, if the refs would just spot the ball and wait til all officials are set and ready, this problem would disappear.


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The pace will depend somewhat on home field. The refs will pace faster at the HUNH's home field then they will at the huddle up home field.

I truly believe Saban wants his packages to be ready to sprint into place against these teams rather than flopping to gain time. It also requires smart LB's to read the play quickly.

I hate burning time outs but if it's a critical situation it could be used after the play has been signaled in. If it's a particular down and distance the use of a time out may offset a big play due to confusion on the defense.

I really liked the way Standford blitzed so many linebackers disrupting Oregon's rhythm and blowing up the play. It gave the linebackers a lot of leeway and their linebackers seemed to be very smart in the way they created pressure.

I still think Alabama had a very poor 3rd down conversion rate on offense. Probably one reason for the change in coordinators. Sometimes the offense needs to match the other teams at the very least.

Auburn had their way with our defensive line at times. Same with our 3rd and short.

I hope Kiffen will utilize our mismatch with one of the most electrifying TE's we've had in years. He will have some weapons. The QB will be key, and he's shown the ability to work well with QB's at times.

The FLOP is not illegal but I don't think Saban wants to go down that road. If it could be a deciding factor against a team like auburn I'm all for it.

BamaFlum said:

As has been said ad nauseam, if the refs would just spot the ball and wait til all officials are set and ready, this problem would disappear.


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Agree 100%. And enforce substitution rules and motion rules and down field blocking rules and....

USCBAMA said:

Agree 100%. And enforce substitution rules and motion rules and down field blocking rules and....

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If the refs are set and ready, more often than not they will see the other stuff as well. It's just going to take a ref with some stones to not back down from a HUNH coach screaming at him to hurry up.


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