FWIW, If I Could Talk With Coach Saban About the Pace of Play Debate

BamaMoon · Mar 10, 2014

I didn't really know where to put this in some of the old threads and it is really a little different topic about "perception is reality."

All of us love Bama football and our current coach, who we believe is still the best in the business.

However, I'm a strong believer in the concept of perception is reality. I may know someone is off with their thinking, but if a lie is told enough alot of people will start believing it. Thus, perception is reality.

That being said, I think CNS can only hurt himself to address the pace of play issue in the future.

There is a perception that with our last two losses and our recent struggles with hurry up type teams that CNS is fearful of the future of his brand of football. That is what people are hearing and thinking every time coach addresses the topic.

I for a minute don't think that CNS is afraid he still can't win NCs. I think he genuinely is concerned about these issues, which includes player safety.

I don't care what the Auburn and Finebaum audience is saying because they'll never acknowledge CNS's coaching process or results. They are only hoping that losing two games means CNS has suddenly forgotten everything he ever knew about defense and is suddenly past his prime. They have conveniently forgotten what type of team won the NC last year and which team (and coach) won it the two years before that, but I digress.

But the larger, national audience I'm afraid sees this as Bama whining that college football is changing and they think we are making excuses. Someone may say, "Who cares what they think" if they are misinformed, but I care about how the Bama program is seen nationally and you better believe CNS knows how important that is in recruiting nationally!

Therefore, I hope CNS decides to address the issue in the only way he really controls and that is recruitment, player development, and defensive adjustments.

To say anything more is just fodder for the talking heads who still believe he's not honest and want to go back to the Miami thing all over again.

CraigD · Mar 10, 2014

You can talk to CNS directly. Just post it on here as you've done and he'll be by shortly to read it. We all know that he's a regular on Tidefans. It's where he get most of his strategic and recruiting ideas.

Also, I agree with what you've said. I'll send Coach Saban a PM to find out if he agrees, too.

AUTigers001 · Mar 10, 2014

For what it's worth, and I know it may not be much, I think CNS is the best college football coach in the game today -- and maybe (probably, even) ever. I don't know how anyone could look at what he's done and think otherwise.

My only problem with Saban is that he's not at Auburn. (there... I said it)

BamaMoon · Mar 10, 2014

AUTigers001 said:
For what it's worth, and I know it may not be much, I think CNS is the best college football coach in the game today -- and maybe (probably, even) ever. I don't know how anyone could look at what he's done and think otherwise.

My only problem with Saban is that he's not at Auburn. (there... I said it)

Doggone, you are hard to dislike! :wink:

TUSKtimes · Mar 10, 2014

Coach Saban seems like the perfect coach to argue how fair the hurry up has become. Winning three national titles gives him the high ground from my vantage point. He's not desperate for a NC, or SECC. Worrying about how you are perceived by the majority seems the quickest way to show a lack of conviction and integrity, as a coach or a man.

Next year, NCAA folks are going to have to take a much harder and more serious look at the "fairness issue." But this coming season, what will be the reaction during football games if announcers and sports enthusiast are pointing out the subtle ways the hurry up offenses are continuing to keep the defense from matching up? If they have the fortitude to be fair and honest, all this "meerkat" stuff should get plenty of TV discussion this fall from a lot of new and interesting perspectives. And every time it comes up, I'll be thinking of the man who got the discussion moving.

BamaMoon · Mar 10, 2014

TUSKtimes said:
Coach Saban seems like the perfect coach to argue how fair the hurry up has become. Winning three national titles gives him the high ground from my vantage point. He's not desperate for a NC, or SECC. Worrying about how you are perceived by the majority seems the quickest way to show a lack of conviction and integrity, as a coach or a man.

Next year, NCAA folks are going to have to take a much harder and more serious look at the "fairness issue." But this coming season, what will be the reaction during football games if announcers and sports enthusiast are pointing out the subtle ways the hurry up offenses are continuing to keep the defense from matching up? If they have the fortitude to be fair and honest, all this "meerkat" stuff should get plenty of TV discussion this fall from a lot of new and interesting perspectives. And every time it comes up, I'll be thinking of the man who got the discussion moving.

I agree with you that he is the perfect coach.... the perfect coach to figure out how to stop the hunh offense.

If he does that there will be no more need for talk.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

TUSKtimes · Mar 10, 2014

BamaMoon said:
I agree with you that he is the perfect coach.... the perfect coach to figure out how to stop the hunh offense.

If he does that there will be no more need for talk.

Bama is working on it. The shakeup in the staff and the speed on the edges clearly shows the future scheme of Smart's defense. Even then the debates not going anywhere. The refs look like they have money on these hurry up teams. They need to get in control of what they are doing and control their own pace. What difference does it make how things get expressed and who says what and when? Frame the argument anyway you want. At the end of the day, if defenses get to match up again and defensive schemes get implemented, who cares how?

exiledNms · Mar 10, 2014

AUTigers001 said:
For what it's worth, and I know it may not be much, I think CNS is the best college football coach in the game today -- and maybe (probably, even) ever. I don't know how anyone could look at what he's done and think otherwise.

My only problem with Saban is that he's not at Auburn. (there... I said it)

I'm telling! A loyal AU fan said something non-negative about Coach Saban. :biggrin2:
What BamaMoon said, AUTigers001.

I asked one of the locals who was whining about Coach Saban's approach to recruiting & to controlling the program if he'd like CNS to be HC of his school of choice. A very long silence ensued...then some feeble mumbling. It was actually quite funny to me.

KentuckianaBFan · Mar 10, 2014

He's already got it figured out. All the rest is just smoke. Oops...did I just type that out loud?

BigBama76 · Mar 10, 2014

First of all I have no doubt that Coach Saban knows exactly what he's doing and what, if any, consequences might develop from whatever he does or says. In fact I have no doubt he's factored in all the fallout he would receive by bringing up the player safety issue with the NCAA rules committee.

The teams using HUNH and the various offenses they run do so because they have less talent overall than their competition. Who ever heard of the Oregon Ducks before they started running an option HUNH attack? When was the last time Baylor was in the hunt for an NC?

My point is that the best HS players are all looking to play with teams that can get them to the next level and so far HUNH option attacks aren't taking over the NFL. While HUNH option offenses may not hurt a potential skill position player like a WR or RB it can negatively impact OLinemen and QB's. I also don't think HUNH offenses tend to stress having the best defenses because they put all their eggs in skill position players that can benefit their offense.

Because of all that and the fact Coach Saban just one of the best recruiting classes in the history of college football while his opinion has been known for awhile tells me there's not going to be any blow back of any substance.

Alasippi · Mar 10, 2014

BamaMoon said:
I didn't really know where to put this in some of the old threads and it is really a little different topic about "perception is reality."

All of us love Bama football and our current coach, who we believe is still the best in the business.

However, I'm a strong believer in the concept of perception is reality. I may know someone is off with their thinking, but if a lie is told enough alot of people will start believing it. Thus, perception is reality.

That being said, I think CNS can only hurt himself to address the pace of play issue in the future.

There is a perception that with our last two losses and our recent struggles with hurry up type teams that CNS is fearful of the future of his brand of football. That is what people are hearing and thinking every time coach addresses the topic.

I for a minute don't think that CNS is afraid he still can't win NCs. I think he genuinely is concerned about these issues, which includes player safety.

I don't care what the Auburn and Finebaum audience is saying because they'll never acknowledge CNS's coaching process or results. They are only hoping that losing two games means CNS has suddenly forgotten everything he ever knew about defense and is suddenly past his prime. They have conveniently forgotten what type of team won the NC last year and which team (and coach) won it the two years before that, but I digress.

But the larger, national audience I'm afraid sees this as Bama whining that college football is changing and they think we are making excuses. Someone may say, "Who cares what they think" if they are misinformed, but I care about how the Bama program is seen nationally and you better believe CNS knows how important that is in recruiting nationally!

Therefore, I hope CNS decides to address the issue in the only way he really controls and that is recruitment, player development, and defensive adjustments.

To say anything more is just fodder for the talking heads who still believe he's not honest and want to go back to the Miami thing all over again.

I think any coach has the right to develop a scheme to give his team the best chance to compete. That includes the Wishbone, and now the no huddle hurry up.
I don't doubt Coach Saban's sincerity about player safety at all, and I agree 100% with his philosophy that the officials should control the pace of the game in order to allow themselves to be in efficient position every play.
At the same time, I can see where his arguments would have been perceived overall, nationally, as less self serving, if we had beaten Auburn about 42-10 like we should have.
sip

bamadp · Mar 10, 2014

BigBama76 said:
First of all I have no doubt that Coach Saban knows exactly what he's doing and what, if any, consequences might develop from whatever he does or says. In fact I have no doubt he's factored in all the fallout he would receive by bringing up the player safety issue with the NCAA rules committee.

The teams using HUNH and the various offenses they run do so because they have less talent overall than their competition. Who ever heard of the Oregon Ducks before they started running an option HUNH attack? When was the last time Baylor was in the hunt for an NC?

My point is that the best HS players are all looking to play with teams that can get them to the next level and so far HUNH option attacks aren't taking over the NFL. While HUNH option offenses may not hurt a potential skill position player like a WR or RB it can negatively impact OLinemen and QB's. I also don't think HUNH offenses tend to stress having the best defenses because they put all their eggs in skill position players that can benefit their offense.

Because of all that and the fact Coach Saban just one of the best recruiting classes in the history of college football while his opinion has been known for awhile tells me there's not going to be any blow back of any substance.

^^^Bingo!!!^^^

The main purpose of the HUNH offense is to keep the other team from substituting. Why? Because the other team has better players. Why? Because the other team (Bama) out recruited and developed their players better than your team. IOW, your team was out coached. The HUNH is used by teams with less overall talent. They only get x number of good players, so they overload half the team, to the detriment of the other half. Sure, you can win some games using this "shortcut", but if you wanna go any further, you need more than half a team. All these people hollerin' "get better players"...we got 'em...maybe they should work a little harder.

TideMan09 · Mar 10, 2014

Exactly sip..The HUNH offenses shouldn't control the pace of the game, the officials should be in control..If they are..Everything else will fall into place & will bring equality to both sides of the ball..It's as simple as that..

Alasippi said:
I think any coach has the right to develop a scheme to give his team the best chance to compete. That includes the Wishbone, and now the no huddle hurry up.
I don't doubt Coach Saban's sincerity about player safety at all, and I agree 100% with his philosophy that the officials should control the pace of the game in order to allow themselves to be in efficient position every play.
At the same time, I can see where his arguments would have been perceived overall, nationally, as less self serving, if we had beaten Auburn about 42-10 like we should have.
sip

CrimsonProf · Mar 10, 2014

AUTigers001 said:
For what it's worth, and I know it may not be much, I think CNS is the best college football coach in the game today -- and maybe (probably, even) ever. I don't know how anyone could look at what he's done and think otherwise.

My only problem with Saban is that he's not at Auburn. (there... I said it)

I'm a little worried that Will Collier or Todd Stacy or the ghost of Corky Frost is going to show up on your doorstep with a black orchid tonight after that post...

TIDE-HSV · Mar 10, 2014

IMO, and I can't remember how many threads we've had or where I've stated it, the whole offense is based off a loophole in the rules. An offense should have "x" number of seconds to get off a play after taking the LOS, like five. Rushing to the line, when you have no idea of what play you're going to run until you look to the idiot boards, is exploiting a loophole. I have no problem with the way the Broncos run it, with CPM running the offense. He's actually calling the plays, based on what he sees - not on what the OC has relayed down to the sidelines...

califbamafan · Mar 10, 2014

Flop city is coming this year. It is unfortunate that this has to happen to try and get offense and defense on a level playing field it is something that will be used to try and bring about change.

CraigD · Mar 10, 2014

TIDE-HSV said:
IMO, and I can't remember how many threads we've had or where I've stated it, the whole offense is based off a loophole in the rules. An offense should have "x" number of seconds to get off a play after taking the LOS, like five. Rushing to the line, when you have no idea of what play you're going to run until you look to the idiot boards, is exploiting a loophole. I have no problem with the way the Broncos run it, with CPM running the offense. He's actually calling the plays, based on what he sees - not on what the OC has relayed down to the sidelines...

Yeah, the one that bothers me most is when they huddle close to the LOS, the receivers split out, then the O-Line turns around quickly and they snap the ball immediately. It really puts the defense at a disadvantage. Now, I don't blame some for giving it (HUNH) a try because the rules don't prevent it and it works pretty well when it is well executed. I just think its time (soon) for the rules to adapt.

bama579 · Mar 10, 2014

BamaMoon is one the boards' good citizens. The following is not directed at him personally:
Do we really need another thread on the topic of Hurryup/Nohuddle?

Thank you for allowing this probably unpopular opinion. :wink:

dadleyblane5 · Mar 10, 2014

First of all, Coach Saban is the best Coach in CFB. Yes, we know that, right? But, also, at least to me, not just that, but he is the best defensive mind in CFB. Trust me when I say that Coach Smart and He will have our D ready next year and the years to come to deal with the HUNH. I really believe that.

B1GTide · Mar 11, 2014

To address the original post, I believe two things - that this rule will forever be seen as the Saban rule to many no matter how much he tries to distance himself from it now, and that this is largely because people outside of the Alabama program/fan base simply do not trust Nick Saban. The trust thing is a monster that Saban had a hand in creating, and he should have been able to see this coming. Many people were going to react negatively to this rule just because it was tied to Nick Saban on day one.

I understand that Saban wants to protect his players, but he is going to have to learn to work behind the scenes if he wishes to affect this type of change. He already has more power than most are comfortable with. He needs to learn to be the puppet master, because he is a failure as a politician.

FWIW, If I Could Talk With Coach Saban About the Pace of Play Debate

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