Northwestern Could Drop D-1 Football, If Players Form union

Bamuzzard said:

If the Northwestern players go through with it expect Northwestern to discontinue the football program. No way ..t is in their best interest to play along with this circus.

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I hate it for their fans cause after all the $$$$$, they've given to their football program over the years, supporting the numskull football players, it's the fans that gets the shaft cause of the greed of the players..I truly hope the University does as Barney Fyffe would say, "Nip It In The Bud", before it spreads to the rest of college football & it completely changes or shuts down college football as we know it..

Even if the players gets paid money, and that's besides their scholarships, it will never be enough, cause the more you give, the they will want & no way would any University will put up with this nonsense..While I hate it for The Northwestern Fans..Their football program will be the "Sacrificial Lamb" for the greater good of college football..I hope that's how all this ends..Cause a scholarship should be sufficient payment for these football players..It's an golden opportunity that the rest of us could only dream about & these idiot players are going to screw up the best game on the planet..As Fred G Sanford would say.."You Big Dummies"..Here's a clock that the school should give to them as a farewell gift..If the players idiocy & greed gets their football program shutdown..

Think this is just about preventing the exploitation of "student athletes"? No, just like any other union, it is about money.

And its flow from the coffers of who produce it into the coffers of the unions. Sure, they may throw some of it at the athletes, but that is not the ultimate goal.

Yes, if not stopped in its tracks, it will ruin college sports. No, it won't happen overnight. Just look at what unions did to railroads, along with the steel and automotive industries. Yes, other factors were involved. All football is facing problems over player safety. Unions will just escalate its demise, under the guise of helping the players. While the unions siphon off money, for doing diddly-squat.

Bamabuzzard said:

If they are considered employees can they now be fired for being late to meetings, underperforming on the field etc.?

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richt will keep them on the payroll.

Good article from ESPN...

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/10680161/players-union-victory-small-battle-collegiate-landscape

"A National Labor Relations Board hearing officer Wednesday found that Northwestern football players who receive scholarships are university employees and may unionize. The ruling might be groundbreaking, but we are a long way from breaking ground on a union hall adjacent to the Nicolet Football Center.

For one thing, hearing officers, also called administrative law judges, don't have the last word. They have the first word. Anyone who can identify the doink-doink of "Law & Order" has heard the legal cliché that a prosecutor can indict a ham sandwich. What hearing officers do is akin to certifying a class in a class-action lawsuit. Now the game begins....

The NLRB only administers private employers. There are, Ohr wrote, 17 private institutions with FBS football teams. Are they to live under a different set of rules than the 100-plus public colleges and universities they compete against? What is the NCAA's role?...

1 A union pay scale is implemented in lieu of a full scholarship. Is there higher pay for skilled position players?
2 The pay is only guaranteed as long as the player remains in school, has passing grades and contributes to the team as based on the coaching staff's evaluation.
3 If any of the three terms are not met then the player is released from the team and school and no longer receives any compensation from the school.

I am okay with this if it is going to happen.

Lester Munson was on Mike & Mike this morning. He said presidents should not expect to tax the scholarships because that would lead to the football (or any sport's) profit being tax. He asked if Northwestern would want their $73 million profit from 2003-2012 to be taxed.

Kain Colter, the former Northwestern QB who led this, said the NCAA doesn't require schools to pay for injuries. It is optional and up to the school. He claims that was a reason to do all of this along with getting the players a seat at the table when the NCAA meets.

He has a problem, though. The news yesterday applies to the 17 football supporting D1 private schools. The public schools have to abid by the state laws. Will they have a seat for 51 unions? Very doubtful.

11b said:

Since this decision only effects private colleges, does anyone know if there are any major football programs that are private schools. I don't want to lose the Oklahomans and tOSUs of football. I don't care about the high school teams masquerading as college teams

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Notre Dame, USCw, Stanford, Miami and Baylor (to name a few) all want to know how you enjoyed hiding out in that Pacific island cave since 1945...

TIDE-HSV said:

I believe that this topic is too political and too volatile for the football board. Obviously, the ramifications extend to all collegiate sports, not just football. We'll move it over to NS, where the gloves can be taken off...

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And there lies a real problem. If you start to pay football & basketball players, why not the women's field hockey players, the rowing team etc.
I would rather see them concentrate more of assuring academic standards for the students who play ANY sports. If you cant cut the academics, form your own league.

If a player's union is established will they also have agents and attorneys? We wouldn't want these athletes, in whom the universities have invested time, publicity, scholarships, tutoring, coaching, training, medical care, and use of elaborate facilities to be taken advantage of without the leeching elements to represent them properly.

In reply to above suggestion that universities should not "tax" the players because it would open them up to taxation. Universities cannot tax them but the government will if they are considered employees. Opening the large amounts of money held by universities to government confiscation is especially attractive to our corrupt politicians with the huge debt they have accrued.

Taxing employees and taxing the revenues of a non-profit are not linked in my opinion. I'm pretty sure every employee of every non-profit organization is taxed on any income earned from his employment, and somehow all those non-profits are still non-profits and do not pay taxes on their revenues. To suggest otherwise is a red herring. If student-athletes are deemed employees, they should be taxed on their income including the value of any scholarships received.

Tide1986 said:

Taxing employees and taxing the revenues of a non-profit are not linked in my opinion. I'm pretty sure every employee of every non-profit organization is taxed on any income earned from his employment, and somehow all those non-profits are still non-profits and do not pay taxes on their revenues. To suggest otherwise is a red herring. If student-athletes are deemed employees, they should be taxed on their income including the value of any scholarships received.

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After I posted what Munson said, I began thinking about how that didn't really make sense.

My dad is a pastor. He pays taxes, but the church doesn't. Nick Saban pays taxes, but the football program doesn't.

For those that want a take from a college football player, look up former Mizzou WR T.J. Moe's twitter account.

From Scarbinsky's Column onal.com today

In declaring that Northwestern football players have the right to form a union if they so choose, a landmark ruling that was the biggest rock to date in a gathering avalanche, Ohr buried the quaint and long-outdated notion of the student-athlete.
Northwestern may appeal, but Ohr's ruling made several points that are impossible to refute.
College football players on scholarship are employees, and their colleges and universities are employers.
The players work a tremendous number of hours to provide a valuable service that earns their schools a tremendous amount of money, and the schools compensate them with a scholarship that has definite monetary value.
The schools set the conditions of this relationship, and the players sign a contract to abide by those conditions. Those conditions include spending far more time on football-related activities than on academic pursuits.
In the Northwestern case, the facts showed that players there spend 50-60 hours a week on football during fall camp, 40-50 hours a week during the season and anywhere from 12-25 hours a week during the "off-season," which includes winter workouts, spring practice and summer workouts.
Northwestern compensates the players for their work with scholarships with "a monetary value ... as much as $76,000 per calendar year."
As a result of this business arrangement, Northwestern football "generated revenues of approximately $235 million during the nine-year period 2003-2012."
In short, it's a business.
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Now, is this also true of the Million Dollar Band members; students who are on scholarship and taking advanced classes in the sciences, etc. and spending lots of time in labs. Are they also paid employees?

If that's the way the student athletes want it, the Federal and State governments need to count that as INCOME and tax it to help pay off the National Debt and add to the state balance sheet.

Are they employees, toooooo? I'll bet the MGD Band members spend as much time as the football players practicing, rehearsing, etc.



I think someone just opened a can of worms! Or was it TERMITES!?

My interest in college football waned a great deal over this past year, for a variety of reasons. I have virtually zero interest in college basketball these days, and I used to be an avid follower.

If they want to screw with this thing, so be it. I don't believe it will end up going the way these players want it to go. There was a way to handle this issue, but I do not feel this was the way to do it. For many schools, football pays the bills so I'm sure this is going to be a long drawn out battle. But for schools like Northwestern, they don't need it, and I won't be surprised if they drop football altogether or move down to D-3.

Al A Bama said:

From Scarbinsky's Column onal.com today

In declaring that Northwestern football players have the right to form a union if they so choose, a landmark ruling that was the biggest rock to date in a gathering avalanche, Ohr buried the quaint and long-outdated notion of the student-athlete.
Northwestern may appeal, but Ohr's ruling made several points that are impossible to refute.
College football players on scholarship are employees, and their colleges and universities are employers.
The players work a tremendous number of hours to provide a valuable service that earns their schools a tremendous amount of money, and the schools compensate them with a scholarship that has definite monetary value.
The schools set the conditions of this relationship, and the players sign a contract to abide by those conditions. Those conditions include spending far more time on football-related activities than on academic pursuits.
In the Northwestern case, the facts showed that players there spend 50-60 hours a week on football during fall camp, 40-50 hours a week during the season and anywhere from 12-25 hours a week during the "off-season," which includes winter workouts, spring practice and summer workouts.
Northwestern compensates the players for their work with scholarships with "a monetary value ... as much as $76,000 per calendar year."
As a result of this business arrangement, Northwestern football "generated revenues of approximately $235 million during the nine-year period 2003-2012."
In short, it's a business.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Now, is this also true of the Million Dollar Band members; students who are on scholarship and taking advanced classes in the sciences, etc. and spending lots of time in labs. Are they also paid employees?

If that's the way the student athletes want it, the Federal and State governments need to count that as INCOME and tax it to help pay off the National Debt and add to the state balance sheet.

Are they employees, toooooo? I'll bet the MGD Band members spend as much time as the football players practicing, rehearsing, etc.



I think someone just opened a can of worms! Or was it TERMITES!?

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If they were employees they would receive a W2 or 1099MISC. I dont believe they receive either

because the Obama Labor Relations Board is controlled by the liberals who want to create more union members?

colbysullivan said:

It amazes me this is even a conversation. How can amateur athletes possibly think they could form a union? It's mind-boggling.

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11b said:

Since this decision only effects private colleges, does anyone know if there are any major football programs that are private schools. I don't want to lose the Oklahomans and tOSUs of football. I don't care about the high school teams masquerading as college teams

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USW west, Stanford, Baylor, TCU, Vanderbilt, Notre Dame are some off the top of my head

RTR91 said:

Lester Munson was on Mike & Mike this morning. He said presidents should not expect to tax the scholarships because that would lead to the football (or any sport's) profit being tax. He asked if Northwestern would want their $73 million profit from 2003-2012 to be taxed.

Kain Colter, the former Northwestern QB who led this, said the NCAA doesn't require schools to pay for injuries. It is optional and up to the school. He claims that was a reason to do all of this along with getting the players a seat at the table when the NCAA meets.

He has a problem, though. The news yesterday applies to the 17 football supporting D1 private schools. The public schools have to abid by the state laws. Will they have a seat for 51 unions? Very doubtful.

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I'd Munson supposed to be knowledgeable in taxes because businesses and the universities do not tax, the government does. If he was correct then the universities would have lost their exemption status long before now when their professors and other employees paid taxes.

I wish they would let CFB players make money; this could have been prevented.

BamaPokerplayer said:

I wish they would let CFB players make money; this could have been prevented.

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They already get plenty of compensation. Stipends (double cashing stipend checks is what got the uga players in trouble), housing, books, tuition, food and pell grants that do not have to be repaid. Pell grants alone provide the player $600 a month to spend. When everything else is provided for that is plenty to go to movies and have a date. Anymore than that it is no longer amateur.