Auburn DL Tyler Nero Passes Out During Practice's "Pace" Drill

Mamacalled

Hall of Fame
Dec 4, 2000
6,786
22
157
58
Pelham, Al
So do you old timers want players that play until their limbs are dangling off or players that are able to play with their kids and maybe remember their kids' names?

Call me soft, but I prefer the way things are today. Maybe today's players won't have memory issues, or maybe today's players will be able to walk without every bone aching.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Not saying it was smart just saying they were tougher. I will add that they were meaner also. Nobody had anything on Conrad Dobler. Look at Arizona a few years ago, players walked out because their coach was too tough on them in practice. Look at Colorado and Dan Hawkins meltdown because of the players were winning about two a days.
 

CrimsonProf

Hall of Fame
Dec 30, 2006
5,716
69
67
Birmingham, Alabama
Not saying it was smart just saying they were tougher. I will add that they were meaner also. Nobody had anything on Conrad Dobler. Look at Arizona a few years ago, players walked out because their coach was too tough on them in practice. Look at Colorado and Dan Hawkins meltdown because of the players were winning about two a days.
The thing about the old days is...they're the old days.
 

crimsonaudio

Administrator
Staff member
Sep 9, 2002
63,469
67,429
462
crimsonaudio.net
And no matter how tough they were were 40 years ago, the best NFL team would have trouble competing with a decent college team today...

Easy to talk about tough people were when the average player was >50 pounds lighter. We're literally pushing the physical limits of humans now, something no one did in the 70s.
 

KrAzY3

Hall of Fame
Jan 18, 2006
10,617
4,542
187
44
kraizy.art
We're literally pushing the physical limits of humans now, something no one did in the 70s.
That is it exactly. To reiterate, you can train for high performance, or endurance, but it's actually really dangerous to push the limits of both at the same time.

There's a reason Lance Armstrong was so skinny, if he was built like Trent Richardson he would have died out there. To illustrate, we have athletes doing things we did as kids or what not, but they're doing it carrying around 20 or 30 more pounds of muscle. That's not just weight, those muscles expend energy. Likewise, while the safety equipment has gotten better, it hasn't exactly turned gotten much lighter. They have full face-masks, extra padding, etc...

What does this all add up to? We have players carrying around more muscle mass, on larger frames, expending more energy, wearing heavier gear, and then we decide to run them as fast as we can, and not let them exit the game even when they want to...
 

TIDE-HSV

Senior Administrator
Staff member
Oct 13, 1999
84,625
39,853
437
Huntsville, AL,USA
That is it exactly. To reiterate, you can train for high performance, or endurance, but it's actually really dangerous to push the limits of both at the same time.

There's a reason Lance Armstrong was so skinny, if he was built like Trent Richardson he would have died out there. To illustrate, we have athletes doing things we did as kids or what not, but they're doing it carrying around 20 or 30 more pounds of muscle. That's not just weight, those muscles expend energy. Likewise, while the safety equipment has gotten better, it hasn't exactly turned gotten much lighter. They have full face-masks, extra padding, etc...

What does this all add up to? We have players carrying around more muscle mass, on larger frames, expending more energy, wearing heavier gear, and then we decide to run them as fast as we can, and not let them exit the game even when they want to...
No, not you. You'd never reiterate. :D Seriously, folks unfamiliar with pro bike racing know that Lance was considered a short course guy and sprinter, pre-cancer, certainly not a TdF contender. While he didn't look like Trent, he certainly tended more towards that body build than the Lance everyone became familiar with later. In fact, if he didn't have such distinctive facial features, you'd swear it wasn't the same person. He was a much thicker person. Some French publications (they generally belong down in the pig pen, with the rest of the swine) said that his chemotherapy actually helped his progress. I'll never know how much EPO helped his career. I tend to buy his argument that it was a drug-soaked sport and I no longer follow it. I do know he would never had the success he had without remaking his body into a different image, with much lower mass and a much higher spin rate in hill climbing. IOW, I agree with you. I think Lance, drugs aside, realized he couldn't compete in the longer races with a thicker, more muscular body...
 

RTR91

Super Moderator
Nov 23, 2007
39,407
6
0
Prattville
Not saying it was smart just saying they were tougher. I will add that they were meaner also. Nobody had anything on Conrad Dobler. Look at Arizona a few years ago, players walked out because their coach was too tough on them in practice. Look at Colorado and Dan Hawkins meltdown because of the players were winning about two a days.
Someone mentioned Junction earlier. Know why Coach Bryant wouldn't be allowed to do that today? Because it was anything but safe. As dangerous as the game is today due to player's weight or anything else, coaches are going to make sure the players stay hydrated.

Some of the issues facing today's football come from older players complaining about the consequences from playing football in those conditions. They may have been tough then, but we're seeing how that's paid off for them years later.

And no matter how tough they were were 40 years ago, the best NFL team would have trouble competing with a decent college team today...

Easy to talk about tough people were when the average player was >50 pounds lighter. We're literally pushing the physical limits of humans now, something no one did in the 70s.
Exactly.
 

stlimprov

1st Team
Nov 9, 2005
970
206
67
54
Saint Louis, MO
No, not you. You'd never reiterate. :D Seriously, folks unfamiliar with pro bike racing know that Lance was considered a short course guy and sprinter, pre-cancer, certainly not a TdF contender. While he didn't look like Trent, he certainly tended more towards that body build than the Lance everyone became familiar with later. In fact, if he didn't have such distinctive facial features, you'd swear it wasn't the same person. He was a much thicker person. Some French publications (they generally belong down in the pig pen, with the rest of the swine) said that his chemotherapy actually helped his progress. I'll never know how much EPO helped his career. I tend to buy his argument that it was a drug-soaked sport and I no longer follow it. I do know he would never had the success he had without remaking his body into a different image, with much lower mass and a much higher spin rate in hill climbing. IOW, I agree with you. I think Lance, drugs aside, realized he couldn't compete in the longer races with a thicker, more muscular body...
There's a clear phenotype for pro bike racers, especially the guys who compete for the GC (overall) in the grand tours. As evidenced by the past few winners of the TdF:
Froome 6-1/152
Wiggins 6-3/152
Evans 5-8/140
A. Schleck 6-1/150
Contador 5-9/137
Sastre 5-8/130

In the math of generating kW/lb, it's just impossible to generate enough power through muscle mass to come up with the same ratio to haul up an 8% grade for miles.

Back to the thread: the typical phenotype for a football player is significantly different than it was in the age of limited substitution. Unlimited substitution changed the environment, making the 300 lb lineman viable, when before he just wasn't. The cycling equivalent might be if you allowed one rider to ride in the mountains, and be replaced in the same race for a sprint. Cycling's solution is that any given race has, in fact, multiple races going on at the same time (the general category, sprint points, mountain points, etc.). Different teams and different individuals may have completely distinct objectives at a given time.

I find it interesting when we howl that HUNH is a violation of the spirit and tradition of the game, when I tend to view it as an attempt to shift the reward system to that of the limited substitution era. There are things I don't like about it (mainly, that officials haven't figured out how to effectively officiate the game with it), but I look at it more as creative market correction by those who are disadvantaged by one set of standards. Was one of Coach Bryant's points of pride not taking "undersized" and "undertalented" players and putting them into situations that emphasized their strengths, rather than their weaknesses? I find myself wondering if some form of limited substitution (by rule or by tactic) is, in fact, what will save the game, as I wonder if it has reached a point where specialized players are so effective that it may render the game fundamentally unsafe.
 

BamaMoon

Hall of Fame
Apr 1, 2004
21,170
16,575
282
Boone, NC
This story is "ironic." This story does nothing to prove the HUNH is "dangerous." It may be, but not because an Auburn player passed out during practice.
 

BamaJama17

Hall of Fame
Sep 17, 2006
16,365
8
47
34
Hoover, AL
And no matter how tough they were were 40 years ago, the best NFL team would have trouble competing with a decent college team today...

Easy to talk about tough people were when the average player was >50 pounds lighter. We're literally pushing the physical limits of humans now, something no one did in the 70s.
2001 Miami Hurricanes > 1972 Miami Dolphins.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

92tide

TideFans Legend
May 9, 2000
58,312
45,166
287
54
East Point, Ga, USA
No, not you. You'd never reiterate. :D Seriously, folks unfamiliar with pro bike racing know that Lance was considered a short course guy and sprinter, pre-cancer, certainly not a TdF contender. While he didn't look like Trent, he certainly tended more towards that body build than the Lance everyone became familiar with later. In fact, if he didn't have such distinctive facial features, you'd swear it wasn't the same person. He was a much thicker person. Some French publications (they generally belong down in the pig pen, with the rest of the swine) said that his chemotherapy actually helped his progress. I'll never know how much EPO helped his career. I tend to buy his argument that it was a drug-soaked sport and I no longer follow it. I do know he would never had the success he had without remaking his body into a different image, with much lower mass and a much higher spin rate in hill climbing. IOW, I agree with you. I think Lance, drugs aside, realized he couldn't compete in the longer races with a thicker, more muscular body...
lance's body is also ridiculously efficient at processing oxygen
 

BamaMoon

Hall of Fame
Apr 1, 2004
21,170
16,575
282
Boone, NC
lance's body is also ridiculously efficient at processing oxygen
I remember a documentary/special they did on him and IIRC it was about how his body processed oxygen at high altitudes so much more efficiently than others. It's why he always built his huge lead in the TDF in the mountainous parts of the course.
 

GrayTide

Hall of Fame
Nov 15, 2005
18,831
6,313
187
Greenbow, Alabama
I find it interesting when we howl that HUNH is a violation of the spirit and tradition of the game, when I tend to view it as an attempt to shift the reward system to that of the limited substitution era. There are things I don't like about it (mainly, that officials haven't figured out how to effectively officiate the game with it), but I look at it more as creative market correction by those who are disadvantaged by one set of standards. Was one of Coach Bryant's points of pride not taking "undersized" and "undertalented" players and putting them into situations that emphasized their strengths, rather than their weaknesses? I find myself wondering if some form of limited substitution (by rule or by tactic) is, in fact, what will save the game, as I wonder if it has reached a point where specialized players are so effective that it may render the game fundamentally unsafe.
I tend to agree with this statement, especially the highlighted part. Try to think like an opposing coach playing SEC heavy weights, Alabama, LSU, UF, UGA. These teams have so much talent, speed, strength and are so well coached that in order to be able to compete you must have an offensive philosophy to counter their strengths or use their strengths against them.

In the case of Alabama, CNS's defenses are so specialized, complicated and personnel specific oriented that an offense (the HUNH) designed to limit substitutions can be an effective ploy as well as designing schemes that neutralize a players bulk or sheer size. I have no doubt that this year or in years to come DCs will come up with defensive packages that can be used to effectively neutralize advantages the HUNH offenses now enjoy.
 

CullmanTide

Hall of Fame
Jan 7, 2008
6,614
885
137
Cullman, Al
And no matter how tough they were were 40 years ago, the best NFL team would have trouble competing with a decent college team today...

Easy to talk about tough people were when the average player was >50 pounds lighter. We're literally pushing the physical limits of humans now, something no one did in the 70s.
2001 Miami Hurricanes > 1972 Miami Dolphins.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You guys can't possibly be serious.
 

RTR91

Super Moderator
Nov 23, 2007
39,407
6
0
Prattville
Well then you must not have been around 40 years ago.
Mario Cristobal played OT on the 1992 Miami team. He was 6'4 and 280. I'm not sure there's a starting OT in the NFL that weighs 280 or less. That was 20 years ago. Norm Evans was a tackle on the 1972 Miami team. He was 6'5 and 250.
 
Last edited:

stlimprov

1st Team
Nov 9, 2005
970
206
67
54
Saint Louis, MO
lance's body is also ridiculously efficient at processing oxygen
I remember a documentary/special they did on him and IIRC it was about how his body processed oxygen at high altitudes so much more efficiently than others. It's why he always built his huge lead in the TDF in the mountainous parts of the course.
Anybody's body is ridiculously efficient at processing oxygen when you have a ridiculous hemocrit count. (cough...EPO...cough)
 

cuda.1973

Hall of Fame
Dec 6, 2009
8,506
607
137
Allen, Texas
lance's body is also ridiculously efficient at processing oxygen
I know someone who used to ride with Lance. Key phrase is "used to". I'll let everyone decide why he stopped, and to what degree it was voluntary. But, he did totally rebuild his stature, post-chemo. He never would have been a TdF contender if he had not. Even with his other "measures".
 

TideMan09

Hall of Fame
Jan 17, 2009
12,194
1,180
187
Anniston, Alabama
I dunno about that..The NFL was running rough & tough with steroid use back then, those NFL players back then we're the meanest in the history of the game..Someone like Lyle Alzado was psycho type brutal & would have taken the lunch from anyone on the 2001 Hurricanes & would eat their stolen lunch in front of them as well..
2001 Miami Hurricanes > 1972 Miami Dolphins.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Latest threads

TideFans.shop - NEW Stuff!

TideFans.shop - Get YOUR Bama Gear HERE!”></a>
<br />

<!--/ END TideFans.shop & item link \-->
<p style= Purchases made through our TideFans.shop and Amazon.com links may result in a commission being paid to TideFans.