Dabbo under attack from Freedom from Religion foundation

im4uainva

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Jul 3, 2011
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Re: Dabbo under attach from Freedom from Religion foundation

Perhaps someone should start a 'Foundation of Freedom from Freedom from religion Foundation zealots'. and start harassing them with some of their own tactics. They're actually forcing their own beliefs, or non-beliefs as it may, on the rest of society. They are entitled to how they feel, they need to learn that it's a two-way street.
 

selmaborntidefan

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Re: Dabbo under attach from Freedom from Religion foundation

Heading to Non-Sports in 3.....2......1.......
 

CullmanTide

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Re: Dabbo under attach from Freedom from Religion foundation

The atheist are bombarding the comment section. Voting thumbs down on anyone who speaks against them.
 

scrodz

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Jan 29, 2008
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Re: Dabbo under attach from Freedom from Religion foundation

I wonder how many people would be rushing to defend Dabo's right to practice his religion if he were anything other than a Christian. I would HOPE that it wouldn't make a difference, but the reality is a bit different.
 

CrimsonProf

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Re: Dabbo under attach from Freedom from Religion foundation

I'm not going to give y'all my religious bonofides except to say that I'm a believer, and while I support FCA (including a GREAT chaplain at UA), there are many, many coaches who don't know the difference between coach and pastor.
 

mittman

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Jun 19, 2009
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Re: Dabbo under attach from Freedom from Religion foundation

It is my humble opinion that too many people have been successful at proselytizing for their comfort. I have never heard a good argument from an atheist or agnostic as to why it is a big deal. If I am unable to convince someone of my beliefs, I dust off my feet and walk away. It seems that they are taking on inquisition tactics. You try to present your belief system, you get sued.

If Dabo were making this mandatory, or there was subtle or not so subtle pressure I get it. I don't see evidence that this is the case.

From a my perspective proselytizing is required. if I was standing in the middle of the street not paying attention and a truck was coming I would want to be at least warned if not knocked out of the way. If I still stood there and got run over, that's what I wanted. I don't see the difference.
 

RammerJammer14

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These people think religion should be relegated literally to behind closed doors. We should be whispering in the corners, have hushed meetings at night so as not to disturb the neighbors. Maybe have secret handshakes and winks if we recognize each other in public. Can't have beliefs rubbing off on people, can we.

They probably think it should be illegal to be religious and employed by a government entity. Only way to be sure, after all.
 

bamachile

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These people think religion should be relegated literally to behind closed doors. We should be whispering in the corners, have hushed meetings at night so as not to disturb the neighbors. Maybe have secret handshakes and winks if we recognize each other in public. Can't have beliefs rubbing off on people, can we.

They probably think it should be illegal to be religious and employed by a government entity. Only way to be sure, after all.
There is a subtle language shift being used in today's political circles which started in the secular crowd. "Freedom of worship" is used instead of "freedom of religion". The difference? Worship can be contained to a worship center (church, mosque, synagogue, etc.), while religion involves the totality of a person's life. The first amendment establishes freedom of religion, not freedom of worship. It is therefore just as much of a constitutional right to proselytize as it is to express disbelief in deity.

The group recently filed a formal complaint to Clemson suggesting Swinney leads the football program against the constitutional stipulations of the separation of church and state, The Greenville News reports.
This one really kills me. There is no Constitutional stipulation of separation of church and state. The phrase comes from a letter written by Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptists in which he proclaimed that "a wall of separation between church and state" was intended by the First Amendment. Considering that he politically supported use of Federal monies for building churches and supporting missionaries among Native American tribes and that he attended church services in the Capitol building, however, it is unlikely that he intended that statement as FFRF characterizes it.
 

chanson78

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Re: Dabbo under attach from Freedom from Religion foundation

It is my humble opinion that too many people have been successful at proselytizing for their comfort. I have never heard a good argument from an atheist or agnostic as to why it is a big deal. If I am unable to convince someone of my beliefs, I dust off my feet and walk away. It seems that they are taking on inquisition tactics. You try to present your belief system, you get sued.

If Dabo were making this mandatory, or there was subtle or not so subtle pressure I get it. I don't see evidence that this is the case.

From a my perspective proselytizing is required. if I was standing in the middle of the street not paying attention and a truck was coming I would want to be at least warned if not knocked out of the way. If I still stood there and got run over, that's what I wanted. I don't see the difference.
There are two issues here really. The first being that as a state employee in a public college, the coach of the football team has a position different than that of another human being on relatively the same level of the organization. Imagine you are at your place of employment, and your boss chooses to have a daily morning prayer meeting. You have the choice to participate in that meeting, but your boss and your coworkers definitely make notice of the fact when you choose to not attend. Don't you think it would be difficult to believe that perceptions and chances of advancement were not tied at least indirectly to your participation in these daily team meetings?

Now imagine as if that same boss, and coworkers were Muslim. Makes it a little more difficult to accept the office culture carte blanche than when you thought they were Christian.

The rub of this whole thing is that you have impressionable kids, who may or may not believe, having to decide on whether something that is labeled as optional, is truly optional with regards to their career at Clemson. If they don't participate in the prayers, does that affect their playing time? Will their coaches decide that they don't want to truly be a team player? They have made a commitment, possibly knowing the culture, maybe not, that can keep them locked in place for a minimum of three years, and if things don't go well, potentially force them to leave Clemson and suffer the "sit out a year penalty."

The second is that for every Atheist or Agnostic that chooses to pick up the fight for the poor oppressed kids who just want to be free from religion but don't know it yet, there are Christians who do the same for the poor oppressed kids who don't know enough about Jesus and if only they could be made to see the light they would understand. So while you may be perfectly willing to divorce the notion of prayer and value to the team as a player, can you say that every member of the Clemson staff is willing to do the same? I am personally a pretty live and let live kinda guy. As long as you don't push your beliefs on me or my family, I will respect yours and do the same.

I do however have a problem with your analogy with regards to the proselytizing perspective. You see a bus, you believe there is a bus, and in your mind that bus truly is going to run over some poor guy. However in that guys world, there are no busses to be attempting to run him over in the first place. If you pushed him out of the way, all he is going to do is get ticked off that you got his pants dirty pushing him out of the way from something which in his mind is completely imaginary.
 

bamachile

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Re: Dabbo under attach from Freedom from Religion foundation

Imagine you are at your place of employment, and your boss chooses to have a daily morning prayer meeting. You have the choice to participate in that meeting, but your boss and your coworkers definitely make notice of the fact when you choose to not attend. Don't you think it would be difficult to believe that perceptions and chances of advancement were not tied at least indirectly to your participation in these daily team meetings?
I don't have to imagine it, it's real at my company. One subtle difference, though, the meeting is at a bar in the afternoon and it's not exactly a prayer meeting. Our religious differences indeed separate us. Should I sue?
 

chanson78

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Re: Dabbo under attach from Freedom from Religion foundation

I don't have to imagine it, it's real at my company. One subtle difference, though, the meeting is at a bar in the afternoon and it's not exactly a prayer meeting. Our religious differences indeed separate us. Should I sue?
If it was in the workplace yes. I understand your frustration about a separate club that creates contacts outside of work due to a shared experience, but the specific difference is whether it takes place on work grounds.
 

Tide1986

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Nov 22, 2008
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I'd like to hear stories from our resident atheists who played sports in the State of Alabama or any other Southern State. We're you exposed to religion? How did you survive the exposure and manage to be an atheist today? Were you discriminated against because of your lack of religious participation?
 

selmaborntidefan

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I'd like to hear stories from our resident atheists who played sports in the State of Alabama or any other Southern State. We're you exposed to religion? How did you survive the exposure and manage to be an atheist today? Were you discriminated against because of your lack of religious participation?
If a coach has a quarterback who's an atheist who can hit the target and a Christian who can't hit the broad side of a barn, guess which player the Christian coach is going to play EVERY SINGLE TIME?

Yep.
 

bamachile

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Re: Dabbo under attach from Freedom from Religion foundation

If it was in the workplace yes. I understand your frustration about a separate club that creates contacts outside of work due to a shared experience, but the specific difference is whether it takes place on work grounds.
I'm not really frustrated, it's just a fact of life. I have the choice of choosing another place of employment - if advancing in position was my primary goal in life, I would do so. It's easier to find a place to fit with others than it is to force others to fit with you. Do you suppose any of these young men (when I was 18 and training to be a killer for the nation's interest, we considered 18-year-olds adults - I never buy the argument that CFB players are "kids") learned that Dabo was a practicing Christian during the recruiting process? Was it hidden knowledge? Could it reasonably be assumed that they knew the environment prior to accepting the conditions? If it was secret knowledge, I may listen to their case. Otherwise, pfft.
 

Jon

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I'd like to hear stories from our resident atheists who played sports in the State of Alabama or any other Southern State. We're you exposed to religion? How did you survive the exposure and manage to be an atheist today? Were you discriminated against because of your lack of religious participation?
Not athletic enough to answer sadly but I can give you an example from my working life

a few years back, working for a large very liberal California based High Tech company I got a new manager. New manager loved to talk about his kids who were in Africa handing out Bibles, assumed us all to be believers and would say things like "I don't care what religion you are as long as you believe, you just can't trust non believers". Now, this is a large, Liberal, California company but I knew that going to HR while it would solve my short term issues would have created severe and lasting long term ones. Sure, he'd have had his hand smacked, but he was also a great producer and very well liked internally. In a right to work State my career would have ended there. Never would have fired me for my beliefs but they would have found another reason. So I have to keep my beliefs secret.
 

Jon

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If a coach has a quarterback who's an atheist who can hit the target and a Christian who can't hit the broad side of a barn, guess which player the Christian coach is going to play EVERY SINGLE TIME?

Yep.
want to take a stab at who gets the nod between two QB's who are about on the same level on the field?

Think Dabo would think that "being a Christian" speaks to ones Character over another? Think Character plays in to that pick?
 

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