Question: Why Auburn puts Dye on a pedestal and not Tubberville

CrimsonEyeshade

Hall of Fame
Nov 6, 2007
5,412
1,522
187
Selma, I watched the 1982 game a while back. Right before the "Bo over the top" Jeremiah Castile intercepted a pass that would have let Alabama run out the clock but he was flagged for PI which looked like a very bad call. The ref who did that turned out to be a former GT player from the early 60's and was behind the barn QB when he threw it. Can you validate this??

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We ran up and down the field, kept dropping the ball and gave them one too many chances to beat us.


If you're looking for bad calls, BJ, check out the personal foul penalty against Wayne Davis on a third down that kept a key Auburn drive alive in the '86 game. In both '82 and '86, we had well over 500 yards of offense and lost. Had we won those games, Dye's legacy would have been much different.
 

TideMan09

Hall of Fame
Jan 17, 2009
12,189
1,167
187
Anniston, Alabama
I think Tubbs is good HC, no doubts about that at all, but, he won at a time when Bama was at our lowest point in the history of our football program..Had we not been handcuffed by NCAA sanctions, Tubbs wouldn't have won as big as he did at The Barn & I think they would've fired sooner as well..And most of the stud players that played for Tubbs..Would have came to Bama any other time when we weren't facing NCAA sanctions..Tubbs took advantage of our down time & that's why he won as big as he did..And I think even The Barners realize th0is & that's why they think more highly of Dye than they do Tubbs..JMHO
 
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BamaJama17

Hall of Fame
Sep 17, 2006
16,365
8
47
34
Hoover, AL
I think Tubbs is good HC, no doubts about that at all, but, he won at a time when Bama was at our lowest point in the history of our football program..Had we not been handcuffed by NCAA sanctions, Tubbs wouldn't have won as big as he did at The Barn & I think they would've fired sooner as well..And most of the stud players that played for Tubbs..Would have came to Bama any other time when we weren't facing NCAA sanctions..Tubbs tooko as much advantage of our down time & that's why he won as big as he did..And I think even The Barners realize th0is & that's why they think more highly of Dye than they do Tubbs..JMHO
Yeah that's for sure. I've never heard any barner speak of him in any high regard.


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IGetBuckets

Suspended
Jan 13, 2014
368
0
0
Castille made a play on the ball and picked it. Horrible call


We outgained au 2-1 that day. Not sure why you need selma to read a dvd

and Bo never got over the top
 

deliveryman35

Hall of Fame
Jul 26, 2003
12,998
1,194
287
55
Gadsden, AL
Pat Dye set the barn on a course that would lead to 30+ yrs of parity with us when at the time they were an
also-ran program on the ropes. That combined with the difficult transition away from the Bear in our program at the time resulted in the perfect storm for them to actually pass our program during the 80s and hold serve ever since. Pat Dye deserves a lot of the credit for that, and all of his predecessors--including Tubs-- greatly benefitted from this. So yes if I was a barn fan then I would hold dye in much greater regard than tommy.

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Padreruf

Hall of Fame
Feb 12, 2001
8,688
12,229
287
73
Charleston, South Carolina
Dye has better ears...seriously, he gave them respectability and a feeling that they were just as good and could compete. Honestly, Tubberville was a really good coach who put some great teams out there.
 

GrayTide

Hall of Fame
Nov 15, 2005
18,810
6,245
187
Greenbow, Alabama
I agree with those that have said Dye's early success against Coach Bryant, his domination of Perkins and Curry and getting the Bammers to come to Jordan Hare all pretty much solidified his place in auburn football lore. His public persona of being a good ole boy fit in with the majority of the auburn faithful, he was one of them at least outwardly.

Tubs on the other hand, was perceived as an outsider who lied to Ole Miss, did not appear to be as approachable as Dye and simply did not look or act like "one of them". Although Tubs had success against Alabama, it was against a program in free fall and headed to probation.

I have always thought that Dye was more compliant and held in favor with Lowder and his followers whereas Tubs was not as easily manipulated by Lowder and his minions. This may be a large part of the reason Dye is viewed as the likeable auburn patriarch and Tubs is pretty much ignored.
 

TommyMac

Hall of Fame
Apr 24, 2001
14,040
33
0
83
Mobile, Alabama
OK, you have to have some historical perspective (and what I say should in no way be taken as talking down to you, just a learning experience). I don't know about the off-the-field stuff because I didn't live in Alabama during the 1980s when it happened.

The Iron Bowl was not played for about a 42-year span. It started over again in 1949, and Alabama roared right out of the gate with a blasting win. Even with that win, Auburn led the series, 7-5-1. After the teams split the next two games. Auburn hired Shug Jordan as head football coach. Alabama won three in a row but then hired J.B. "Ears" Whitworth and promptly won only four games in three years and went 0-3 against Auburn.

At that very time, Auburn won the national championship. Keep in mind that since our recognition of older titles did not occur until the early 1980s, Auburn was actually perceived at the time as having won something we never had (until 1983, it was generally considered that Bryant won our first national title in 1961). And btw - Auburn was on probation at the time, which worked a little different then and didn't quite carry the stigma it does today. Auburn, in fact, was on probation for playing players in 1957 when they got hit again in 1958 with the first-ever "triple" probation - a three-year TV and an three-year bowl ban.




So we went and hired Coach Bryant right as Auburn was the national champion. In four years, he resurrected the program to our own national title. And after losing the first two to Auburn while he built his time, Bryant then went on an absolutely unreal run against Auburn, winning 19 of the next 26 game (and losing one in the infamous Punt Bama Punt game, where we outplayed them for all but two plays).

Alabama was THE dominant program in college football from 1960-1966 and again from 1971-1981. Shug Jordan - who was very good, mind you - simply couldn't beat the guy. Of course, neither could anyone else, but this drove the Auburn fan base absolutely nuts. After all, they were on top of the world when Bryant showed up. So they convinced themselves of all kinds of things - Bryant was paying players, Bryant was cheating, the NCAA was afraid of Bryant because he has sued "The Saturday Evening Post" into bankruptcy (which wasn't true but has long been believed by most ignorant observers). They weren't getting beat on the football field, they were only losing because Bryant cheated (in their minds).

When Jordan retired, he was replaced by a completely unqualified empty suit by the name of Doug Barfield. What promptly happened was that in 1979, BOTH Auburn's basketball and football programs got hit with sanctions for - wait for it - paying players!!! And Auburn fans, showing how rational they are, blamed the entire thing on Coach Bryant since, as we all know, he really needed help winning all those BASKETBALL games. To make it worse, violations not disclosed were later discovered in the 1979 sanctions and another year was added. And, of course, the Auburn logic said that Coach Bryant was behind the whole thing, what with all that spare time on his hands.

In 1980, it was decided that Barfield needed to be thrown overboard. Auburn had their eyes on a former Auburn player who just happened to be coaching the team that was about to win the national championship, Vince Dooley of Georgia. Dooley contemplated leaving Athens for Opelika but after sobering up, he stayed at the hedges. So Auburn hired Pat Dye, who had compiled a pretty decent record under the circumstances at East Carolina and Wyoming.

Dye came to town and had a great plan. He ran to every high school in the state that he possibly could and informed the football players that Coach Bryant was going to have to retire after the 1983 season, due to the state's mandatory retirement law. (It wound up not mattering but Dye used it for all it was worth). In his first year, he had the misfortune of being a guest of honor at Bryant's coronation as the winningest coach in college history.

But after that Dye did a lot of stuff that Tuberville could never match:

1) He beat Coach Bryant in the legend's last regular season game - one of the most childish reactions ever came when Dye sent Auburn's players back out onto Legion Field to "thank ah people" for their support. Auburn fans were tearing down goalposts and running around like rednecks in a John Deere store. When he was later asked if that wasn't somewhat rubbing it in on Bryant, Dye (who had coached as an assistant here in the 60s) said he meant no disrespect but that it was that kind of attitude that would one day win Auburn a national championship.

Yes, a guy whose team had been bludgeoned by Nebraska by forty points was suggesting his team was going to win a national title.

2) He took Auburn to AND WON a Sugar Bowl, something they'd never done.

So his second year he beats Alabama and his third year he beats Alabama, wins the SEC, wins the Sugar Bowl and - SHOULD have won a national championship. In only three years, Dye had become the king and Alabama was in free fall.

3) He got them to a number one ranking.

Auburn began the 1984 season ranked number one. They started 0-2 (so much for that) but Dye had actually for one week had them at the top. In 1985, Auburn started at number two then moved up to number one after a couple of decent wins while OU had not yet begun their season.

And then they got blown out by Tennessee and ended that dream.

4) By the late 1980s, Auburn was THE cream of the crop in the SEC.

Auburn won SEC titles in 1987-88-89 (shared), won the Iron Bowl all three years, and just fwiw, Bo Jackson won the Heisman in 1985.


The bottom line is this - Auburn judges success based on how they compare against Alabama. Dye owned us in the 1980s, beating three different coaches in the Iron Bowl and going 6-3 overall. He won six of eight after his initial loss and BOTH of his losses were due to some strange occurrences (the goal line stand in 1984, where Dye outcoached himself, and Tiffin's kick in 1985).

Dye built a very solid program that won a lot of games and won 4 SEC titles in seven seasons. Keep in mind that during the 1980s, no other school won (or shared) more than 2 SEC titles. He won a Sugar Bowl, had a Heisman winner, and got robbed of the 1983 national championship.


Tuberville, on the other hand, inherited a team that - while bad in 1998 - had just won the division in 1997. And unlike Dye, whose early losses were to teams much better than his (none of Dye's losses in 1982 or 1983 were upsets and his only real upset loss in 1984 was to Alabama), Tuberville specialized in blowing game after game after game.

Here are a few examples:

1999 Mississippi State - leading 16-3 with less than three minutes left, MSU scores, Auburn then took a safety, and then MSU ran the punt most of the way back before hitting the winning TD pass with 19 seconds left. Keep in mind MSU was playing with a backup QB.

2000 Mississippi State - Tubs inexplicably called for a fake punt deep in his own territory early in the game and never got the momentum back in a 17-10, not as close as it looks final score.

2001 Alabama - playing a 4-5 underdog, Auburn implodes and not only loses, they get blown out 31-7.

2001 LSU - this loss cost Tubs a second straight division title

You have to remember something else - they got stuck with Tubs after the infamous Jetgate. It was put into his contract that if they ever pulled anything like that again he got a $10 million buyout. So they were stuck with him. He only hung around as long as he did because Alabama was on probation.

And I would note this: even with a probation riddled Alabama, the scores of those games are hardly testaments to Auburn dominance. Only the 2005 game was a real blowout post-2002.

There's another thing with Dye that ought to make everyone suspicious: he was the AD at a time when Auburn's basketball, tennis, and football teams were ALL put on probation for PAYING PLAYERS!!! The most well-known was Eric Ramsey. Dye was actually banned from Auburn in the NCAA ruling for about three years.

And the moment it was over....right back he comes. Most schools don't want such people on their campuses ever again.

Well I've rambled and there's more but that's an overview.

Coach Bryant only lost his first game against them, losing 14-8. After that he won 4 in a row, all shutouts.

Coach Bryant beat them 19 of 25, not 26.
 

IGetBuckets

Suspended
Jan 13, 2014
368
0
0
I agree with those that have said Dye's early success against Coach Bryant, his domination of Perkins and Curry and getting the Bammers to come to Jordan Hare all pretty much solidified his place in auburn football lore. His public persona of being a good ole boy fit in with the majority of the auburn faithful, he was one of them at least outwardly.

Tubs on the other hand, was perceived as an outsider who lied to Ole Miss, did not appear to be as approachable as Dye and simply did not look or act like "one of them". Although Tubs had success against Alabama, it was against a program in free fall and headed to probation.

I have always thought that Dye was more compliant and held in favor with Lowder and his followers whereas Tubs was not as easily manipulated by Lowder and his minions. This may be a large part of the reason Dye is viewed as the likeable auburn patriarch and Tubs is pretty much ignored.

Dye was on the Board of Colonial Bank, I do not think Tubbs ever was
 

Alasippi

Suspended
Aug 31, 2007
12,875
2
57
Ocean Springs, MS
Dye, or his cohorts, paid players. I know this for a fact. He assembled NFL talent and never won a national title, even though they were ranked number one several times during his tenure and always seemed to lose critical games.
Tubberville never had a Bo Jackson, a Brent Fullwood, Tracy Rocker, Doug Smith, or the countless other NFL prospects Dye had, yet he beat Bama six times in a row.
How the AU nation could possibly not absolutely love Tubberville is a mystery to me.
He's a good football coach. Where has he not won?
How many games did Cincinnati win last year? Wasn't it 10?
I've sat in an Auburn boosters office as he talked on the phone to Pat Dye, and listened to a conversation.
He hung up and said, "Damn, the kid wants a car".
That was Pat Dye. He cheated. Period. And yet he still couldn't pull off ONE national title.
In my book, that's pretty bad coaching.
sip
 

ptw1961

1st Team
Dec 8, 2011
793
0
0
Great post and so very true. Pat Dye ran one of the truly corrupt programs in the history of college football during the 80's. America has not heard 1/10th of what he,Wayne Hall and Bobby Lowder were doing then. And Auburn fans simply do not care. Named their field after him after he got them on probation. Nobody except Auburn would do that.
Dye, or his cohorts, paid players. I know this for a fact. He assembled NFL talent and never won a national title, even though they were ranked number one several times during his tenure and always seemed to lose critical games.
Tubberville never had a Bo Jackson, a Brent Fullwood, Tracy Rocker, Doug Smith, or the countless other NFL prospects Dye had, yet he beat Bama six times in a row.
How the AU nation could possibly not absolutely love Tubberville is a mystery to me.
He's a good football coach. Where has he not won?
How many games did Cincinnati win last year? Wasn't it 10?
I've sat in an Auburn boosters office as he talked on the phone to Pat Dye, and listened to a conversation.
He hung up and said, "Damn, the kid wants a car".
That was Pat Dye. He cheated. Period. And yet he still couldn't pull off ONE national title.
In my book, that's pretty bad coaching.
sip
 

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