Link: Interesting technical article on LSU's defense against the HUNH teams...

RollTide1224 · May 21, 2014

Re: Interesting technical article on LSU's defense agains the HUNH teams...

KrAzY3 said:
Over the course of two years, the defense lost ten players to the NFL. That's basically the entire starting lineup, lost to the NFL. It's amazing they were good at all, and I think that's one of the big things that's being missed here. The "leaders" on defense were inexperienced themselves, there are no fifth year senior/three year starter types like most defenses have, and of course when you have to face an offense that does something the players are not used to, their inexperience will show.

It's a little frustrating to me to see how it seems like the amazing accomplishments of this Alabama defense are overlooked. There is no other defense out there, none, over the past few years that has sustained this level of success.

You're absolutely right, in all honesty with as bad as we finished the season defensively I think it's safe to say that the coaching staff might've pulled a miracle with how they were for most of the year. Our numbers were still elite on defense but by the end of the season I doubt people would call us elite. Inexperience and in some positions just a talent drop showed.

I think the thing some of the posters including myself are getting at is the type of players we've recruited (or once we recruited them blew them up 30-50 lbs) might not be the best fit for the changing offensive landscape of the SEC. To me it seems that teams are somewhat neutralizing what has made us successful on defense. Many years our defense was literally just too big to move out of the way. I'm not saying we need to get rid of the gigantic NT, because we have had a great one on all of our elite defenses. I'm just saying that we probably need to get a little more athletic and quicker on the edge.

The difference is you're talking about an experience issue whereas others are talking about a personnel issue.

gtgilbert · May 21, 2014

Re: Interesting technical article on LSU's defense agains the HUNH teams...

KrAzY3 said:
Over the course of two years, the defense lost ten players to the NFL. That's basically the entire starting lineup, lost to the NFL. It's amazing they were good at all, and I think that's one of the big things that's being missed here. The "leaders" on defense were inexperienced themselves, there are no fifth year senior/three year starter types like most defenses have, and of course when you have to face an offense that does something the players are not used to, their inexperience will show.

It's a little frustrating to me to see how it seems like the amazing accomplishments of this Alabama defense are overlooked. There is no other defense out there, none, over the past few years that has sustained this level of success.

actually, it's more than 10. there were 13 guys from the 2 deep 2011 defense that were in the Pros for the 2013 season if you include guys on practice squads. Only 4 guys didn't make it - Brandon Lewis, John Fulton, Will Lowry, and Nick Gentry. This draft and FA class added the remainders (Stinson, CJM, Hubbard <maybe> and HaHa), plus Jarrick W is still on the team since he was injured. Essentially that 2011 defense was just a hair shy of NFL caliber. This doesn't even mention some of the guys that played smaller roles since they were younger like Sunseri, Pagan and DePriest who we're on the 2 deep yet.

JDCrimson · May 21, 2014

Re: Interesting technical article on LSU's defense agains the HUNH teams...

BigEasyTider said:
LSU has had more success defensively against the no-huddle and spread passing teams than we have because (1) they have had much better cornerback play, and (2) they recruit smaller, lighter players who need to be subbed less frequently and who can hold up better in space. We are moving in that direction, but it has been a long trek and we still haven't made it there yet.

If you want a good example of the differences between the two defenses the past couple of years, watch LSU against Manziel in 2012-13, and then put on our tape from those same games. LSU stifled him and generally had him at his wits end, and we looked like we were trying to chase him around while wearing 20-pound ankle bracelets on each leg. For better or for worse, we just haven't been built defensively the past couple of years to defend HUNH and spread teams like you need to be in order to really defend it well.

Of course, the downside of going smaller is that you are then a lot more vulnerable to the run. Stopping the LSU running game -- and perhaps the Arkansas running game, if Bielema ever gets it together -- will be tougher in a couple of years than it has been in recent years (not sure the same applies to Auburn, which is more of a misdirection-based run game, but it potentially could as well). Unfortunately, that's just the trade-off you have to deal with when you play in a league with a lot of scheme diversity on the offensive side of the ball.

You have touched on this, but I think it bears stating again. I dont perceive the A&M offense as the same level of threat going forward. I think Manziel was just that good of player matched up with an incredible receiver in Evans. I dont think schemes are as important as personnel in attacking the A&M type HUNH offense. All we really needed was some better penetration with the DL and better matchups man-to-man in the secondary.

But I dont think this approach necessarily goes for Auburn. I think their offense presents a much greater challenge that requires a better scheme and more efficient play-calls prior to snap. I cant really say that personnel is the major issue here - I just dont think we played good assignment football defensively against them last year. LSU is not the model for stopping this type offense, but Stanford is.

Bottom line, disruptive defense beats an A&M offense while ball-control offense beats the Auburn offense. You are not going to look good playing defense against Auburn - think Ga Southern. However, you do need just enough defense for your offense to take control of the game. So if I am looking at it as a coach, I build my team around the defense winning 11 games and I need the offense to be the dominant winning force only 1 game then I feel a lot better about what we are doing.

BamaJama17 · May 21, 2014

Re: Interesting technical article on LSU's defense agains the HUNH teams...

That true. Good execution in the HUNH is one thing, having Johnny Manziel, Mike Evans, and 2 All American Offensive Tackles is what made A&M offense dangerous. A&M no matter what won't be as potent on offense this year. The barn with Gus is what I see as a bigger threat.

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gtowntide · May 21, 2014

Re: Interesting technical article on LSU's defense agains the HUNH teams...

I think the best way to conquer the HUNH is to "affect" the quarterback. We did not do that well last season. CNS will fix this with what he calls fast twitch players and smaller faster LB's. Recruits coming in like Rashaad Evans and Da'Shawn Hand will help a lot.

I'm sure Coach Saban and Coach Smart are tired of hearing we can't stop the HUNH. I look for major improvement this season.

TideMan09 · May 22, 2014

Re: Interesting technical article on LSU's defense agains the HUNH teams...

Yup..I may not post thanks on your links kyallie, when I read them every day when I come here to TideFans, it's the 1st thing I do & look forward to the most on a daily basis on any of the Bama web sites I look through..Cause I know if it's a good article posted online about The Crimson Tide, you will be the 1st to link it on here, and it save us all a good bit of time looking for all the articles you post for us..Cause you always have them bundled into you daily post..So thank you kyallie & I should post thank you after I read through all your links, it saves us all so much time looking for them & we all appreciate your tireless daily links you post for us..Thank You kyallie..

TIDE-HSV said:
Well, sometimes, something really interesting just gets buried, although that happens more in season than now. If I see something I think isn't getting enough attention, I'll pull it out and post it separately, with apologies to you. We really appreciate what you do for us...

BamaJama17 · May 22, 2014

Re: Interesting technical article on LSU's defense agains the HUNH teams...

gtowntide said:
I think the best way to conquer the HUNH is to "affect" the quarterback. We did not do that well last season. CNS will fix this with what he calls fast twitch players and smaller faster LB's. Recruits coming in like Rashaad Evans and Da'Shawn Hand will help a lot.

I'm sure Coach Saban and Coach Smart are tired of hearing we can't stop the HUNH. I look for major improvement this season.

Only question is will they be able to start or just play a lot. I can remember Courtney Upshaw was mainly a 3rd down player back in 2008.

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RollTide1224 · May 22, 2014

Re: Interesting technical article on LSU's defense agains the HUNH teams...

BamaJama17 said:
Only question is will they be able to start or just play a lot. I can remember Courtney Upshaw was mainly a 3rd down player back in 2008.

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He was mainly a 3rd down player in 09 as well. Anders was the jack and reamer was the sam.

I would think there is some room for de/olb to help the team this year on pass rush situations. If the guys come in ready to play and to work hard they might be key contributors.

BamaJama17 · May 22, 2014

Re: Interesting technical article on LSU's defense agains the HUNH teams...

RollTide1224 said:
He was mainly a 3rd down player in 09 as well. Anders was the jack and reamer was the sam.

I would think there is some room for de/olb to help the team this year on pass rush situations. If the guys come in ready to play and to work hard they might be key contributors.

Yeah well who knows how much we'll see them at the beginning of the season but years the end I'd have to imagine we'll be seeing those two quite a bit.

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BamaInMo1 · May 26, 2014

Re: Interesting technical article on LSU's defense agains the HUNH teams...

To add to this: another way to defend against the HUNH is to control the ball on offense. Use the dadgum tightends and running backs and give the defense a blow and a chance to make adjustments. Three and outs don't help the defense out much.

twofbyc · May 31, 2014

Re: Interesting technical article on LSU's defense agains the HUNH teams...

SIAP....
Derek Mason was at Stanford when they had huge success against The Duck version. I read this article and find some very interesting ideas...
http://msn.foxsports.com/college-fo...future-of-sec-defense-up-tempo-offense-041014

CrimsonForce · May 31, 2014

Best counter to the HUNH is to run a basic defensive scheme. Stop with all the subbing and complex calls and trying to counter everything the offense is doing. This makes the players think to much and play slower. The HUNH is a basic offense with a few plays. When they get a first down they immediately run to the line and do a dive right up the middle. Normally our D is still trying to get lined up and get the call in. I understand this requires a little different breed of player than we have but I believe this is the best way to counter the HUNH. I would love to see a hurry up defense lol. After every snap all the defenders rush and line up. Wonder if that would really work?

TIDE-HSV · May 31, 2014

CrimsonForce said:
Best counter to the HUNH is to run a basic defensive scheme. Stop with all the subbing and complex calls and trying to counter everything the offense is doing. This makes the players think to much and play slower. The HUNH is a basic offense with a few plays. When they get a first down they immediately run to the line and do a dive right up the middle. Normally our D is still trying to get lined up and get the call in. I understand this requires a little different breed of player than we have but I believe this is the best way to counter the HUNH. I would love to see a hurry up defense lol. After every snap all the defenders rush and line up. Wonder if that would really work?

I honestly don't think that would make much difference, since it wouldn't really force the snap of the ball...

sabanball · May 31, 2014

TIDE-HSV said:
I honestly don't think that would make much difference, since it wouldn't really force the snap of the ball...

Correct however it could get "in the head" of the offense. Offense would rush to the line and there the defense is...ready...not looking to the sidelines...not making calls...not jumping around...right there lined up and ready.

The worst thing for a fast paced offense is to go 3 and out.

CrimsonForce · May 31, 2014

sabanball said:
Correct however it could get "in the head" of the offense. Offense would rush to the line and there the defense is...ready...not looking to the sidelines...not making calls...not jumping around...right there lined up and ready.

The worst thing for a fast paced offense is to go 3 and out.

That's kinda what I was thinking but I kinda said it in jest. Like you said I think it would kinda psych out the offense and put them in a little frenzy like the offenses are doing to the defenses right now. It will never happen though.

alwayshavebeen · May 31, 2014

I agree with many comments on how to stop the HUNH offense. I think they're 3 key steps...1) Control the LOS and get penetration by the defense. This is an obvious comment, but it especially works against option football and IMO the HUNH is just that...a combination of the single-wing and box. 2) Keep the defense simple. Eliminate the confusion, line up and play football. I think the lighter and quicker players may help here. 3) Control the football on offense, by running primarily to let our OL wear down their defense, and of course throw it around some to keep them off balance. Now...I have stated what everyone on here already knows

TiderJack · May 31, 2014

Re: Interesting technical article on LSU's defense agains the HUNH teams...

gtowntide;2393985[B said:
]I think the best way to conquer the HUNH is to "affect" the quarterback. We did not do that well last season. CNS will fix this with what he calls fast twitch players and smaller faster LB's. Recruits coming in like Rashaad Evans and Da'Shawn Hand will help a lot.[/B]

I'm sure Coach Saban and Coach Smart are tired of hearing we can't stop the HUNH. I look for major improvement this season.

I agree totally. The HUNH is relatively new and we have obviously had to adjust as a staff and roster. We met some of those needs last year in Tim Williams and Johnathan Allen and we are bringing in two news one as you said as well as Christian Miller that will change the way HUNH QB's have run against us. I think we become a better, more diverse defense this year.

gtgilbert · May 31, 2014

sabanball said:
Correct however it could get "in the head" of the offense. Offense would rush to the line and there the defense is...ready...not looking to the sidelines...not making calls...not jumping around...right there lined up and ready.

The worst thing for a fast paced offense is to go 3 and out.

nope - this is the worst thing you could do. The HUNH works because once the O gets to the line they have the option of snapping fast or waiting, when they wait they are actually waiting on the o-coordinator to get the defensive alignment sent down from the booth since they can see everything, then instead of the QB making an audible like would happen in a normal offense, the coaches make the change and signal it from the sideline. IF the D lines up too early the o-coordinator just has a better chance to change the call... That's the part of the HUNH I hate the most since it take the game out of the QB's hands and eliminates a lot of the on field chess match between the QB and the MLB.

CoachJeff · May 31, 2014

The HUNH and option are not one in the same. People confuse the two all the time. AU does both, but Georgia Tech doesn't run the hurry up while TAMU runs HUNH but doesn't run the option.

bamaslammer · May 31, 2014

No matter what schematic changes we make we have to get better on the defensive line. Last year's line was just not very good.

Link: Interesting technical article on LSU's defense against the HUNH teams...

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