News Article: USA Today on FSU's handling of Winston and his problems off field...

IGetBuckets · May 22, 2014

TideEngineer08 said:
Penn State was a surprise. But I reckon their entire identity was wrapped up in Joe Paterno and they couldn't see through that.

This is very true ^

TIDE-HSV · May 22, 2014

4Q Basket Case said:
Between the misconduct by the University, its athletic department, the Tallahassee PD, and Winston himself, that young lady has a big payday coming.

The standard of proof for a civil action is a lot lower than for a criminal one. Maybe Winston should consult OJ Simpson on how that works before they're neighbors.

The only real potentially deep pocket there would be Winston. All the others are protected by "sovereign immunity," and they can be sued only to the extent they permit. In Alabama, a municipality, including the PD, can only be sued for $150K, unless the amount has been updated. Not surprisingly, the larger municipalities, like HSV, have opted to self-insure. Why not? As for Winston's pocket, he could bankrupt as soon as he graduates (or before), if he had a sizable judgment against him. Also, I'm not sure what odds I'd give him now for making it through to the NFL draft. Even with FSU's and parents' enabling, I don't give him better than 50-50 at this point. He's in that little control of his impulses. We've seen the effect of that lack of governor, including our own "Boo."

davefrat · May 22, 2014

BigBama76 said:
I may be wrong but I cannot believe that the alumni, fans, supporters and coaches of our program would allow something like this to happen. At least I hope we would not stand for anything like this.

I have no doubt that some would circle the wagons...the only question is how many.

PaulD · May 22, 2014

TIDE-HSV said:
The only real potentially deep pocket there would be Winston. All the others are protected by "sovereign immunity," and they can be sued only to the extent they permit. In Alabama, a municipality, including the PD, can only be sued for $150K, unless the amount has been updated. Not surprisingly, the larger municipalities, like HSV, have opted to self-insure. Why not? As for Winston's pocket, he could bankrupt as soon as he graduates (or before), if he had a sizable judgment against him. Also, I'm not sure what odds I'd give him now for making it through to the NFL draft. Even with FSU's and parents' enabling, I don't give him better than 50-50 at this point. He's in that little control of his impulses. We've seen the effect of that lack of governor, including our own "Boo."

Although I'm not licensed in Florida, it appears that the legislature has waived sovereign immunity to make the state liable in many situations where a private party would be. I didn't see an exemption for torts protecting an excessively entitled Heisman Trophy winner.

4Q Basket Case · May 22, 2014

TIDE-HSV said:
The only real potentially deep pocket there would be Winston. All the others are protected by "sovereign immunity," and they can be sued only to the extent they permit. In Alabama, a municipality, including the PD, can only be sued for $150K, unless the amount has been updated. Not surprisingly, the larger municipalities, like HSV, have opted to self-insure. Why not? As for Winston's pocket, he could bankrupt as soon as he graduates (or before), if he had a sizable judgment against him. Also, I'm not sure what odds I'd give him now for making it through to the NFL draft. Even with FSU's and parents' enabling, I don't give him better than 50-50 at this point. He's in that little control of his impulses. We've seen the effect of that lack of governor, including our own "Boo."

PaulD said:
Although I'm not licensed in Florida, it appears that the legislature has waived sovereign immunity to make the state liable in many situations where a private party would be. I didn't see an exemption for torts protecting an excessively entitled Heisman Trophy winner.

Good perspective on both fronts. I just hope that the facts win out, and that both the alleged victim and Winston get justice, whatever that might be.

This sort of thing is what makes TideFans the best board on the net.

TIDE-HSV · May 22, 2014

PaulD said:
Although I'm not licensed in Florida, it appears that the legislature has waived sovereign immunity to make the state liable in many situations where a private party would be. I didn't see an exemption for torts protecting an excessively entitled Heisman Trophy winner.

Is that a complete waiver, Paul, or only a waiver with limits on liability?

TIDE-HSV · May 22, 2014

It's capped. $200K for individuals, $300K per incident. Probably enough for the poor student, but it's pretty paltry in the big picture, if someone is on a ventilator for life, or just in a wheelchair for life. What would you take for your legs?

DocCrimson · May 22, 2014

TIDE-HSV said:
It's capped. $200K for individuals, $300K per incident. Probably enough for the poor student, but it's pretty paltry in the big picture, if someone is on a ventilator for life, or just in a wheelchair for life. What would you take for your legs?

Sadly my mind went straight to Oscar Pistorius.

teamplayer · May 22, 2014

BigBama76 said:
I may be wrong but I cannot believe that the alumni, fans, supporters and coaches of our program would allow something like this to happen. At least I hope we would not stand for anything like this.

There are some people who support every program who think winning is the only thing that matters, and they do not care one bit about right and wrong.

IGetBuckets · May 22, 2014

teamplayer said:
There are some people who support every program who think winning is the only thing that matters, and they do not care one bit about right and wrong.

Those people do not really support their "Program" imo.

They are instead seeking to compensate for their own insecurites and inadequancy.

selmaborntidefan · May 22, 2014

While I've been making the point of the enabling culture, I'd rather not read about it from the notoriously unreliable Christine "Every Man Is A Rapist" Brennan.

The woman cannot think un-emotionally or logically. She is the female version of Jay Mariotti.

JDCrimson · May 22, 2014

TIDE-HSV said:
The only real potentially deep pocket there would be Winston. All the others are protected by "sovereign immunity," and they can be sued only to the extent they permit. In Alabama, a municipality, including the PD, can only be sued for $150K, unless the amount has been updated. Not surprisingly, the larger municipalities, like HSV, have opted to self-insure. Why not? As for Winston's pocket, he could bankrupt as soon as he graduates (or before), if he had a sizable judgment against him. Also, I'm not sure what odds I'd give him now for making it through to the NFL draft. Even with FSU's and parents' enabling, I don't give him better than 50-50 at this point. He's in that little control of his impulses. We've seen the effect of that lack of governor, including our own "Boo."

Yes but would sovereign immunity apply if the victim could demonstrate bad faith or willful wanton behavior or gross negligence? I have never had a case dealing with this issue but seems like I remember studying it usually on covered instances of negligence.

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BigBama76 · May 23, 2014

teamplayer said:
There are some people who support every program who think winning is the only thing that matters, and they do not care one bit about right and wrong.

I became an Alabama fan watching Coach Bryant and "Shug" on Sunday afternoons. Nothing against "Shug" but there was no comparison. We know that Coach Bryant meted out punishment to his best players, no matter the consequences as to win/lose, for far less than the allegations involving this young man.

I don't know about the "character" of the program before Coach Bryant but I know he set the tone from his time onward in my mind.

selmaborntidefan · May 23, 2014

BigBama76 said:
I became an Alabama fan watching Coach Bryant and "Shug" on Sunday afternoons. Nothing against "Shug" but there was no comparison. We know that Coach Bryant meted out punishment to his best players, no matter the consequences as to win/lose, for far less than the allegations involving this young man.

I don't know about the "character" of the program before Coach Bryant but I know he set the tone from his time onward in my mind.

Not to throw gasoline on the fire - but there was more than one criticism about the handling of David Palmer in 1992. The ONE thing I can say in his favor is that he seems to have turned things around in his life as I don't hear stories about how he is broke (McCants), dealing in drugs (Sherman Williams, Jimmy Johns), or white collar crime accusations (Burgdorf, Dare). But the handling of that situation by Stallings was at least somewhat questionable at the time.

And btw - this tactic isn't even new at FSU. Look at what Bobby Bowden said fifteen years ago about the Peter Warrick Dillard's episode and why he didn't kick Warrick off the team:

"People can fool themselves all they want to," Bowden said back then. "But you go to a bowl that pays $13 million, and if you win the national championship, your royalties are going to double, and then you're going to be national champions and you're going to get money for this and money for that. My work has tripled or doubled since we won the national championship. I'm talking about signing autographs, signing this, speaking here, speaking there. And you think I'm gonna sit [Warrick] on the bench? With all that riding out there?

And let's not pat ourselves on the back too quickly - the PTB let DuBose coach the team and pretended publicly he was innocent when they and the state press all knew he was guilty as sin. We paid BIG-TIME for that culture/lapse in judgment.

BigBama76 · May 23, 2014

selmaborntidefan said:
Not to throw gasoline on the fire - but there was more than one criticism about the handling of David Palmer in 1992. The ONE thing I can say in his favor is that he seems to have turned things around in his life as I don't hear stories about how he is broke (McCants), dealing in drugs (Sherman Williams, Jimmy Johns), or white collar crime accusations (Burgdorf, Dare). But the handling of that situation by Stallings was at least somewhat questionable at the time.

And btw - this tactic isn't even new at FSU. Look at what Bobby Bowden said fifteen years ago about the Peter Warrick Dillard's episode and why he didn't kick Warrick off the team:

"People can fool themselves all they want to," Bowden said back then. "But you go to a bowl that pays $13 million, and if you win the national championship, your royalties are going to double, and then you're going to be national champions and you're going to get money for this and money for that. My work has tripled or doubled since we won the national championship. I'm talking about signing autographs, signing this, speaking here, speaking there. And you think I'm gonna sit [Warrick] on the bench? With all that riding out there?

And let's not pat ourselves on the back too quickly - the PTB let DuBose coach the team and pretended publicly he was innocent when they and the state press all knew he was guilty as sin. We paid BIG-TIME for that culture/lapse in judgment.

I did think about some of our own player problems and I remembered a little bit about Palmer but I don't recall any of those rising to anything near Winston's issues.

My memory is fuzzy on Palmer. I thought his biggest problem was alcohol. I do remember there being an uproar over it, which has been noticeably absent from FSU. I also remember that Coach Stallings had to come out and defend his handling of Palmer's issues.

I know we've had serious problems with Players but for the most part they didn't remain with the team, Palmer maybe being an exception.

IGetBuckets · May 23, 2014

BigBama76 said:
I did think about some of our own player problems and I remembered a little bit about Palmer but I don't recall any of those rising to anything near Winston's issues.

My memory is fuzzy on Palmer. I thought his biggest problem was alcohol. I do remember there being an uproar over it, which has been noticeably absent from FSU. I also remember that Coach Stallings had to come out and defend his handling of Palmer's issues.

I know we've had serious problems with Players but for the most part they didn't remain with the team, Palmer maybe being an exception.

Coach Stallings said that he he felt "David needed the team more than the team needed David"

BigBama76 · May 23, 2014

IGetBuckets said:
Coach Stallings said that he he felt "David needed the team more than the team needed David"

I thought it was something like that. There, you got a comeback post.

Rama Jama · May 24, 2014

I once thought we should let FSU into the SEC, but we don't need another win at all cost school like Auburn.

TIDE-HSV · May 24, 2014

JDCrimson said:
Yes but would sovereign immunity apply if the victim could demonstrate bad faith or willful wanton behavior or gross negligence? I have never had a case dealing with this issue but seems like I remember studying it usually on covered instances of negligence.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

Not ever against the state. If an officer acts far enough outside his proper role, which the courts have been very reluctant to find, then he may be liable individually, but it never removes the state's umbrella...

jps1983 · May 24, 2014

TIDE-HSV said:
Not ever against the state. If an officer acts far enough outside his proper role, which the courts have been very reluctant to find, then he may be liable individually, but it never removes the state's umbrella...

And truthfully, if he's off the reservation that much, I doubt the government would have any liability even without immunity as the person would not be acting as an agent or in the course and scope of his employment with the government.

News Article: USA Today on FSU's handling of Winston and his problems off field...

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