News Article: What Drives Success? (cultural factors/differences in immigrant groups in the U.S.)

uafan4life · Jun 8, 2014

This is an interesting article - a basic synopsis of a book written by the authors, two Yale professors, of a book on the subject - that highlights a potential explanation for the relative success that some immigrant groups attain in the U.S. when compared to other immigrant groups and established groups within the U.S. The most interesting thing, to me, is that while intentionally looking at and comparing cultural group trends in terms of cultural influences the authors simultaneously dismiss any racial or genetic component.

I certainly can't imagine this book going over well with the feel-good PC crowd, Ivy League establishment, or socialistic liberals. However, it does make some interesting points.

Mash Here.

Tidewater · Jun 8, 2014

Facts are racist.

Displaced Bama Fan · Jun 9, 2014

Tiger mom is racist.

GreatMarch · Jun 9, 2014

I recently saw a Navy CPO state that diversity made the Navy successful and I thought that was the dumbest thing I had heard. You can be diverse all you want but if a group cannot achieve a goal, then it is not successful. To me, success is setting goals for one's self or group and achieving those goals. That is regardless of race, gender, culture, etc....

But, that is just me.

Bama Reb · Jun 9, 2014

The only thing that "diversity" has to do with it is that as a general rule some races their children in one manner and some in another. If they are taught the values of honesty and hard work then they will in all likelihood pursue those same values as an adult. If they're not, then they probably won't.
If that leads one to believe certain generalizations about a given race then so be it. I guess "it is what it is."

Tidewater · Jun 9, 2014

GreatMarch said:
I recently saw a Navy CPO state that diversity made the Navy successful and I thought that was the dumbest thing I had heard. You can be diverse all you want but if a group cannot achieve a goal, then it is not successful. To me, success is setting goals for one's self or group and achieving those goals. That is regardless of race, gender, culture, etc....

But, that is just me.

You are not alone.
Diversity is absolutely NOT an asset. At best, it is neutral. Openness to merit, without regard to factors that do not matter like race is the asset to be prized and sought-after.
The left-wing morons destroying the country, however, need race to matter and latch onto "diversity" in lieu of meritocracy.

During the Rodney King riots, members of the south central LA community would target Korean grocers who had set up shop in their community. A "spokeswoman" for the rioters was asked why the rioters were targeting the Koreans. She said, "They don't get it. We came here first. They should be allowed to succeed before we do." I remember thinking to myself, "No, they do 'get it.' It is you, the spokeswoman, who doesn't get it. Success is not about waiting until its your 'turn.' It is about initiative and hard work."

Bodhisattva · Jun 9, 2014

As I've written on here a million times, if my wife can come here with nothing - not even the ability to speak the language - and attain a level of achievement that is considered "too successful" by a certain administration, what excuse does anyone else have for being a slug?

Bamaro · Jun 9, 2014

Bodhisattva said:
As I've written on here a million times, if my wife can come here with nothing - not even the ability to speak the language - and attain a level of achievement that is considered "too successful" by a certain administration, what excuse does anyone else have for being a slug?

Yeah but on the other hand she did wind up with you.

Bodhisattva · Jun 9, 2014

Bamaro said:
Yeah but on the other hand she did wind up with you.

I made her the success she is today.

Just don't tell her I said that; she'll hurt me bad.

4Q Basket Case · Jun 9, 2014

It always comes down to one thing: Willingness to sacrifice short-term fun / comfort / leisure for delayed, but greater reward.

Work hard for a whole bunch of nights, reap rewards several years down the road.

Study hard for a bunch of years, get big income later.

Paint your house for a lot of evenings after work and weekends, avoid godamighty repairs later, and sell your house quicker for more money.

Don't charge restaurant dinners, Rolexes, or Rooms-To-Go furniture on credit cards, put more money in your 401k or IRA, and sip Margaritas when you're 65, rather than spending 29 (definitely not 30) hours a week saying, "Welcome to Wal-Mart."

It's all about choices. You don't have to make six figures to retire comfortably. You have to sacrifice short term pleasure for long-term benefit.

ANYBODY can do that.

Tidewater · Jun 10, 2014

4Q Basket Case said:
It always comes down to one thing: Willingness to sacrifice short-term fun / comfort / leisure for delayed, but greater reward.

Work hard for a whole bunch of nights, reap rewards several years down the road.

Study hard for a bunch of years, get big income later.

Paint your house for a lot of evenings after work and weekends, avoid godamighty repairs later, and sell your house quicker for more money.

Don't charge restaurant dinners, Rolexes, or Rooms-To-Go furniture on credit cards, put more money in your 401k or IRA, and sip Margaritas when you're 65, rather than spending 29 (definitely not 30) hours a week saying, "Welcome to Wal-Mart."

It's all about choices. You don't have to make six figures to retire comfortably. You have to sacrifice short term pleasure for long-term benefit.

ANYBODY can do that.

I would add not dropping out of high school, and (for the young ladies) not getting pregnant prior to selecting (and preferably marrying) a reliable father (not just one whose plumbing works) and (for the young men) not knocking your girlfriend up.

A single parent family is still the most reliable predictor of lifetime hardship.

uafan4life · Jun 10, 2014

Tidewater said:
I would add not dropping out of high school, and (for the young ladies) not getting pregnant prior to selecting (and preferably marrying) a reliable father (not just one whose plumbing works) and (for the young men) not knocking your girlfriend up.

A single parent family is still the most reliable predictor of lifetime hardship.

That's racist!!!

Displaced Bama Fan · Jun 10, 2014

Let's just say this. My son graduated from with a class of more than 800. The top 10 kids where all Wu, Li, Patel, etc. Not a white, Hispanic or black kid in the mix. Now, there were a lot of kids that graduated with GPAs in excess of 4.0, but the top 10 kids all had GPAs in excess of 4.7 due to AP classes.

So yes, I think there is a cultural "bias" to a certain degree. My son graduated with honors, and his girlfriend and several of his friends graduated with high honors, but none came close to the those top 10.

Tide1986 · Jun 10, 2014

Two interesting points from the article:

#1

MOST fundamentally, groups rise and fall over time. The fortunes of WASP elites have been declining for decades. In 1960, second-generation Greek-Americans reportedly had the second-highest income of any census-tracked group. Group success in America often tends to dissipate after two generations. Thus while Asian-American kids overall had SAT scores 143 points above average in 2012 — including a 63-point edge over whites — a 2005 study of over 20,000 adolescents found that third-generation Asian-American students performed no better academically than white students.

#2

It turns out that for all their diversity, the strikingly successful groups in America today share three traits that, together, propel success. The first is a superiority complex — a deep-seated belief in their exceptionality. The second appears to be the opposite — insecurity, a feeling that you or what you’ve done is not good enough. The third is impulse control.

Displaced Bama Fan · Jun 10, 2014

Tide1986 said:
Two interesting points from the article:

#1

#2

So, 2nd generation Asian kids hated their parents for pushing them so hard to "succeed" and as a result loosened the reigns on their kids to "assimilate" into American culture.

Tide1986 · Jun 10, 2014

Displaced Bama Fan said:
So, 2nd generation Asian kids hated their parents for pushing them so hard to "succeed" and as a result loosened the reigns on their kids to "assimilate" into American culture.

More generally, it's probably the result of prosperity.

Tidewater · Jun 10, 2014

Tide1986 said:
More generally, it's probably the result of prosperity.

I had a kid in a 1230-1345 class. Vietnamese kid (100% genetically Vietnamese, but born in the US and grew up in northern Virginia, the DC suburbs) who missed a bunch classes. When I asked him about it, he said, "Dude, I can't get up that early." 12:30 pm class.

He did not pass the class.

Bamaro · Jun 10, 2014

Bottom line is it's more of a cultural thing than anything else. Kids are kids and cant be trusted to make the best long range decisions. They need a strong support system to help them succeed. Families are the best source of this support. Schools, churches and other organizations can also help out.

Bodhisattva · Jun 10, 2014

Tidewater said:
I had a kid in a 1230-1345 class. Vietnamese kid (100% genetically Vietnamese, but born in the US and grew up in northern Virginia, the DC suburbs) who missed a bunch classes. When I asked him about it, he said, "Dude, I can't get up that early." 12:30 pm class.

He did not pass the class.

Well, he was probably on Vietnam time, which is 11 hours behind the East Coat.

uafan4life · Jun 10, 2014

Bodhisattva said:
Well, he was probably on Vietnam time, which is 11 hours behind the East Coat.

Just imagine if the time difference were based on the Pacific Pants!

:biggrin2:

News Article: What Drives Success? (cultural factors/differences in immigrant groups in the U.S.)

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