HUNH, No Substitutions, Fatigue and Sports Injuries

IH8Orange

Hall of Fame
Aug 14, 2000
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Trussville, AL, USA
I don't think saban is making up the injury issue.

that said, as a lawyer, you know that the stated basis of a claim often isn't always the strongest basis of a claim but rather the most compelling basis.

personally, I think he's primarily motivated by his disdain for this kind of football but he knows that the medical issue is the most compelling argument to make.

I think he's making a strategic decision in going forward with the medical issue because he knows that no one is going to be swayed simply by "this ain't the way my granddaddy played football."
The injury issue is the most compelling argument, especially given the recent NCAA emphasis on player safety before everything else. Apparently the NCAA is ignoring the evidence that the HUNH offense disregards their very own "recommendations" for player safety as stated in their 2013-2014 edition of the NCAA Sports Medicine Handbook.

On page 39 in Guideline 2C (Prevention of Heat Illness), the NCAA lists these symptoms of "exertional heat injury": muscle cramping, decreased performance, unsteadiness, confusion, vomiting, irritability, pale or flushed skin, rapid weak pulse, high body temperature, nausea, headache, dizziness, unusual fatigue, sweating stops, disturbances in vision, and fainting. The "Warp Speed" offense guy referenced earlier stated that two of these symptoms are his goals in his offense by preventing defensive players to substitute, rest, or hydrate. So, in reality he's trying to induce "exertional heat injury" on opposing players.

On page 40, in the list of "the following practices should be observed" is "fluid replacement should be readily available". That practice cannot be observed if players aren't given enough time between plays to get hydration. On page 41, there is a summarization of the potential risk factors for heat illness and that list includes these:

1. Intensity of exercise. This is the leading factor that can increase core body temperature higher and faster than any other.
4. Dehydration. Fluids should be readily available and consumed to aid in the body's ability to regulate itself and reduce the impact of heat stress.

On page 99 is Guideline 2T regarding Exertional Rhabdomyolysis (ER), which is when muscle tissue begins to break down into its protein constituents and enters the bloodstream during extreme exertion.

The risk factors for ER are:

  • Novel overexertion. This is "characterized as too much, too soon, and too fast."
  • Exertional heatstroke. This was discussed above.
  • Exertional collapse with complications in athletes with sickle cell trait (not the same as sickle-cell leukemia). Athletes with sickle-cell trait are more at-risk for exertion-based illnesses and death.


On page 102, still within the Guideline 2T:

ER often occurs when exertion is pushed beyond the point at which fatigue would normally compel an individual to stop, such as what can occur during group exercise under demanding supervision
or peer pressure.
I don't think that there is a more dangerous environment for ER than the quick paced offense that is created purposely to force defensive players to fatigue and dehydrate.

The NCAA had the opportunity to alleviate many of these health concerns with the 10-second substitution period between plays and their own studies showed that it really would have had little impact on their actual pace of play. The only impact it would have had was that it would have allowed fatigued and dehydrated defensive players (and offensive players as well) to substitute with a fresher player and would make the game safer. Not passing that rule seems to contradict the NCAA's self-touted concern for player safety. It will be sad if it takes the death of players to prove the likely danger of the fast-paced, no substitutions offensive style.
 

davefrat

Hall of Fame
Jun 4, 2002
5,272
4,140
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Hopewell, VA
The injury issue is the most compelling argument, especially given the recent NCAA emphasis on player safety before everything else. Apparently the NCAA is ignoring the evidence that the HUNH offense disregards their very own "recommendations" for player safety as stated in their 2013-2014 edition of the NCAA Sports Medicine Handbook.

On page 39 in Guideline 2C (Prevention of Heat Illness), the NCAA lists these symptoms of "exertional heat injury": muscle cramping, decreased performance, unsteadiness, confusion, vomiting, irritability, pale or flushed skin, rapid weak pulse, high body temperature, nausea, headache, dizziness, unusual fatigue, sweating stops, disturbances in vision, and fainting. The "Warp Speed" offense guy referenced earlier stated that two of these symptoms are his goals in his offense by preventing defensive players to substitute, rest, or hydrate. So, in reality he's trying to induce "exertional heat injury" on opposing players.

On page 40, in the list of "the following practices should be observed" is "fluid replacement should be readily available". That practice cannot be observed if players aren't given enough time between plays to get hydration. On page 41, there is a summarization of the potential risk factors for heat illness and that list includes these:

1. Intensity of exercise. This is the leading factor that can increase core body temperature higher and faster than any other.
4. Dehydration. Fluids should be readily available and consumed to aid in the body's ability to regulate itself and reduce the impact of heat stress.

On page 99 is Guideline 2T regarding Exertional Rhabdomyolysis (ER), which is when muscle tissue begins to break down into its protein constituents and enters the bloodstream during extreme exertion.

The risk factors for ER are:

  • Novel overexertion. This is "characterized as too much, too soon, and too fast."
  • Exertional heatstroke. This was discussed above.
  • Exertional collapse with complications in athletes with sickle cell trait (not the same as sickle-cell leukemia). Athletes with sickle-cell trait are more at-risk for exertion-based illnesses and death.


On page 102, still within the Guideline 2T:



I don't think that there is a more dangerous environment for ER than the quick paced offense that is created purposely to force defensive players to fatigue and dehydrate.

The NCAA had the opportunity to alleviate many of these health concerns with the 10-second substitution period between plays and their own studies showed that it really would have had little impact on their actual pace of play. The only impact it would have had was that it would have allowed fatigued and dehydrated defensive players (and offensive players as well) to substitute with a fresher player and would make the game safer. Not passing that rule seems to contradict the NCAA's self-touted concern for player safety. It will be sad if it takes the death of players to prove the likely danger of the fast-paced, no substitutions offensive style.
now it's gone from injuries to death?
 

IH8Orange

Hall of Fame
Aug 14, 2000
7,017
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Trussville, AL, USA
now it's gone from injuries to death?
There are many documented instances of athletes dying from exertion-related episodes. They are often due to some condition such as an enlarged heart or other pre-existing cardiopulmonary condition, but those at risk are still being put in more danger by preventing substitution and proper hydration. If players are subbing in and out fairly often, a player that is on the verge of suffering some exertion-related episode might be able to tell a trainer or someone about their symptoms instead of just collapsing and dying on the field because they weren't allowed to come out when they first noticed the symptoms.

From page 39 of the NCAA Sports Medicine Handbook:

Although deaths from heat illness are rare, exertional heatstroke (EHS) is the third-leading cause of on-the-field sudden death in athletes. There have been more deaths from heatstroke in the recent five-year block from 2005 to 2009 than any other five-year block in the previous 30 years. Constant surveillance and education are necessary to prevent heat-related problems.
From pages 93 and 94:

Sickle cell trait is not a disease and is not a barrier to exercise or participation in sport. It is the inheritance of one gene for normal hemoglobin (A) and one gene for sickle hemoglobin (S), giving the genotype AS. Sickle cell trait (AS) is not sickle cell anemia (SS), in which two abnormal genes are inherited. Sickle cell anemia causes major anemia and many clinical problems, whereas sickle cell trait causes no anemia and few clinical problems. Sickle cell trait will not turn into the disease. However, it is possible to have symptoms of the disease under extreme conditions of physical stress or low oxygen levels. In some cases, athletes with the trait have expressed significant distress, collapsed and even died during rigorous exercise.
...
Exertional rhabdomyolysis can be life threatening. During intense exertion and hypoxemia, sickled red cells can accumulate in the blood. Dehydration worsens exertional sickling. Sickled red cells can “logjam” blood vessels in working muscles and provoke ischemic rhabdomyolysis. Exertional rhabdomyolysis is not exclusive to athletes with sickle cell trait.
...
The U.S. armed forces linked sickle cell trait to sudden unexplained death during basic training. Recruits with sickle cell trait were about 30 times more likely to die than other recruits.
...
The harder and faster athletes go, the earlier and greater the sickling. Sickling can begin in only two to three minutes of sprinting, or in any other all-out exertion of sustained effort, thus quickly increasing the risk of collapse. Athletes with sickle cell trait cannot be “conditioned” out of the trait, and coaches pushing these athletes beyond their normal physiological response to stop and recover place these athletes at an increased risk for collapse.
 

davefrat

Hall of Fame
Jun 4, 2002
5,272
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There are many documented instances of athletes dying from exertion-related episodes. They are often due to some condition such as an enlarged heart or other pre-existing cardiopulmonary condition, but those at risk are still being put in more danger by preventing substitution and proper hydration. If players are subbing in and out fairly often, a player that is on the verge of suffering some exertion-related episode might be able to tell a trainer or someone about their symptoms instead of just collapsing and dying on the field because they weren't allowed to come out when they first noticed the symptoms.

From page 39 of the NCAA Sports Medicine Handbook:



From pages 93 and 94:
if someone suffers from the above-referenced maladies, I would suggest that a sport like football is not really safe to begin with considering that it (and many other sports) require extreme exertion for long periods of time.

I don't think anyone would argue that football, even when played at a slower pace, doesn't require massive amounts of exertion and physical strain.
 

BamaPokerplayer

All-American
Oct 10, 2004
3,112
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I also don't remember anyone on here complaining about more injuries due to the extra game that was added to the schedule 10 years or so ago. Or the SEC Championship game.
It just shows how silly the safety argument, that the NCAA uses all the time, is. I would wager if someone offered to let CNS's players play physical football, and keep the HUNH, he would take it in a minute. Sadly, they have told CNS his players can't hit in the name of safety, but if a team can run 200 plays in a game that's okay.
 

IH8Orange

Hall of Fame
Aug 14, 2000
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Trussville, AL, USA
I also don't remember anyone on here complaining about more injuries due to the extra game that was added to the schedule 10 years or so ago. Or the SEC Championship game.
I also don't remember anyone denying that the extra games would cause more injuries. The NCAA seemed to be more worried about the interruption with academic studies than injuries when those games were added.

In my original post, I stated that I was not advocating that the HUNH be abolished by the NCAA. I just want to point out that the argument that the HUNH increases the potential for injuries is NOT baseless as so many HUNH supporters suggest that it is. Many of the offensive coaches that run the HUNH derisively mocked anyone that suggested that the faster pace and limitations on substitutions and hydration might present a danger to the health of the athletes. I actually think that it was foolish to merely attempt to deny that more injuries would be produced from increasing the exertion duty cycle of athletes in addition to forcing each athlete to endure more exertion cycles before having a chance to rest and allowing no hydration to the athletes during these increased periods of activity.

Muscle activity (the metabolizing of carbohydrates, fats, and even proteins) produces excess heat, chemical waste products (the exhaust of metabolism), and some level of trauma to the muscle fibers and connective tissues and these are produced in proportion to the amount of exertion on the muscle during contraction. The body has processes to remove the excess heat (normal convection along with sweating), to remove the waste products (cardiopulmonary system), and to repair the tissue trauma (hypertrophy and hyperplasia, which cause muscle growth and strengthen connective tissues). However, each of these processes take a given amount of time to be effective and if the body doesn't have the necessary amount of time to perform these necessary functions between periods of exertion, do these coaches really think that there is no adverse effect?

These coaches know that the HUNH causes excessive fatigue and that is their goal in using it: to catch the defense when they have certain less-conditioned athletes on the field and then strand them on the field and wear them down so that they can exploit that weakness in the defense as well as possibly cause the defense to use timeouts to substitute and rest their players. It's certainly effective and an intelligent way to attack defenses that use larger athletes that are more susceptible to fatigue. However, these coaches want to exploit the fatigue that their offensive style produces AND conveniently deny that studies (and really, just common sense) show that general (and short-term exertional) fatigue contributes to injuries. They just need to be honest, accept the truth, and stop attacking legitimate injury concerns with ridicule.

Finally, any coach or player that openly displays an acrimonious reaction to an opposing player that appears to be injured on the field (regardless of whether they think that the player is faking or not) should be given an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty (second penalty would result in ejection). They should also give some incentives to programs to control the way that their crowds react in such situations. If the NCAA really cares about player safety, then they need to ensure that there is an environment where a player that may be legitimately injured isn't intimidated into continuing to play and risking more serious injury.
 

CSA4Ever

Scout Team
Jun 6, 2010
155
0
0
I have no problems with the HUNU offenses. That type football has been around for decades.

It was called the "two minute offense". The idea was to create mismatches and to inhibit the opponent making defensive substitutions.

OU used this scheme with varying degrees for several years but discovered the true path to success was to use a strong running game coupled with a mobile QB.

OU signed a 5* 220 # RB and a 4* 240 #RB.

The bottom line is that if you can't get the football, you aint't gonna win.

Having said all that, I would love nothing more than an OU-Bama game for all the marbles.
 

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