Offensive Production in the Saban Era

RTR91

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Nov 23, 2007
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Time will tell, but maybe we shouldn't have been laughing so loudly when Michigan scooped up Nuss.
Numbers don't lie. They also don't account for Nussmeier's playcalling, which what many Bama fans didn't like.
 

CrimsonForce

Hall of Fame
Dec 20, 2012
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My biggest beef with our offense has been our production against pretty average of below average defenses in big games. A&M 2012 we should have scored 40+ easily against that D. And of course AU last year we should have put up 35+ pretty easily. Seems like in big games we get very predictable and bog down a lot.
 

TideEngineer08

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Alabama's offense, with its talent, really doesn't have an excuse for being less than 40% on 3rd down conversions. I mean, 40% should be a bad day. But when we lose, we'll be like 1 for 9 on 3rd down. And of course, we've either struggled to run the ball or the play calling was far too pass happy.
 

selmaborntidefan

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Observations:

1) We had 512 more rushing yards in 2012, but 354 of those were due to one extra game (UGA). So game-to-game we basically rushed for 158 extra yards in 2012. Which means Eddie Lacy was worth 158 more yards (over 10 ypg) than the triple headed monster of Henry-Drake-Hart.

2) We rushed for nine fewer TDs, but that's misleading. Subtract the three rushing TDs from the UGA game and the differential is six. Subtract the goal line fumbles of Yeldon (twice, aTm and UK) and the difference is four. Four fewer TDs in about 58 fewer attempts. A slight difference but not much of one. Also keep in mind that the passing yards helped lower the rushing attempts - AJ threw about 38 fewer attempts in 2012 despite having an extra game.

3) Our passing yards per game went up by 12 while our rushing yards per game went down 37. This is an overall differential of 25, but it's also a commentary on how much better the O-line was in 12 (in addition to Lacy). We rushed less because there was much less confidence in the O-line. Plus, didn't McCarron get sacked a whole lot more in 13? It sure seemed like it.

4) We got more yards per play in 13, but that happens when you pass more often. We also turned the ball over quite a bit more often.
 

RollTide1224

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Observations:

1) We had 512 more rushing yards in 2012, but 354 of those were due to one extra game (UGA). So game-to-game we basically rushed for 158 extra yards in 2012. Which means Eddie Lacy was worth 158 more yards (over 10 ypg) than the triple headed monster of Henry-Drake-Hart.

2) We rushed for nine fewer TDs, but that's misleading. Subtract the three rushing TDs from the UGA game and the differential is six. Subtract the goal line fumbles of Yeldon (twice, aTm and UK) and the difference is four. Four fewer TDs in about 58 fewer attempts. A slight difference but not much of one. Also keep in mind that the passing yards helped lower the rushing attempts - AJ threw about 38 fewer attempts in 2012 despite having an extra game.

3) Our passing yards per game went up by 12 while our rushing yards per game went down 37. This is an overall differential of 25, but it's also a commentary on how much better the O-line was in 12 (in addition to Lacy). We rushed less because there was much less confidence in the O-line. Plus, didn't McCarron get sacked a whole lot more in 13? It sure seemed like it.

4) We got more yards per play in 13, but that happens when you pass more often. We also turned the ball over quite a bit more often.
Great post Selma but I think you meant the triple headed monster of Yeldon-Drake-Henry. I would also disagree that we really had a triple headed monster since Derrick basically played in 2 games all season.
 

B1GTide

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Apr 13, 2012
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Statistics can be misleading. Alabama moved the ball up and down the field last year, but against quality opponents Alabama struggled in the red zone and struggled on 3rd down. I put most of that on o-line play. Alabama also had a pretty pedestrian turnover margin last year. Those are three pretty critical elements. Add poor special teams play and a defense that was clearly not up to Alabama standards and you have to give Saban a whole lot of credit for getting that team as far as he did. Until that last play of the last game of the season, you were the #1 team in the nation with your sights set on the SECCG and FSU.

A whole lot of talent - one of the most talented teams ever assembled - but the whole was far less than the sum of its parts last year.
 

TouchThatThang

All-SEC
Feb 8, 2014
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Nussmeier, IMO, needed to go. He wasn't as good as McElwain. He put up big numbers against the wimps, but against the big dogs we only ever won in spite of Nuss (except for ND and the final drive of LSU 2012). But when you look at the talent we've had, there is nothing special about what Nuss did. Sometimes I felt he'd rather lose the game his way than win if that meant going against his tendencies.
 

Alasippi

Suspended
Aug 31, 2007
12,875
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Ocean Springs, MS
In the three losses we experienced during Nuss's tenure, to Texas A&M, Auburn, and Oklahoma we averaged scoring 27.3 points per game. 24, 28, and 31.
Our defense, in those games gave up 29, 34, and 45 points, an average of 36 points per game.
That was close to four touchdowns per game over the season average we had allowed.
I'll agree that Mcelwain was much better as an offensive coordinator. After all, in Bryant Denny, he was incredible in orchestrating the three points against LSU in the game we lost 6-3.
He really turned on the motor scoring 21 points in the BCS Championship Game.
BTW, our defense in those games gave up a total of six points.
So, did the offense win those games? Did Mcelwain?
I think not.
I've been on this board for I can't even tell you how long, but I can say this with no reservation--I have never seen a negative comment about Kirby Smart or Coach Saban, and his coaching of the secondary. The fact is, in the games we lost in the last two years, it wasn't Nuss's fault. We scored way enough points, we just couldn't stop anybody.
Everybody focuses on us not making a fourth and a foot against Auburn. Everybody forgets that our defense let them drive 80 yards in less than a minute, running the ball down our throats, without us ever making one single adjustment, both before the half, and at the end of the game.
That's Nuss's fault, right? That falls on the shoulders of the OC, right?
With all due respect, with the exception of the 6-3 loss to LSU in 2012, we've lost every game we've lost because our defense couldn't get the job done.
If you can't see it, then just think about it for a bit. If you still can't see it, then you're just bitter because a guy left Bama to try and feel appreciated for what he really did and can accomplish.
sip
 

CrimsonForce

Hall of Fame
Dec 20, 2012
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In the three losses we experienced during Nuss's tenure, to Texas A&M, Auburn, and Oklahoma we averaged scoring 27.3 points per game. 24, 28, and 31.
Our defense, in those games gave up 29, 34, and 45 points, an average of 36 points per game.
That was close to four touchdowns per game over the season average we had allowed.
I'll agree that Mcelwain was much better as an offensive coordinator. After all, in Bryant Denny, he was incredible in orchestrating the three points against LSU in the game we lost 6-3.
He really turned on the motor scoring 21 points in the BCS Championship Game.
BTW, our defense in those games gave up a total of six points.
So, did the offense win those games? Did Mcelwain?
I think not.
I've been on this board for I can't even tell you how long, but I can say this with no reservation--I have never seen a negative comment about Kirby Smart or Coach Saban, and his coaching of the secondary. The fact is, in the games we lost in the last two years, it wasn't Nuss's fault. We scored way enough points, we just couldn't stop anybody.
Everybody focuses on us not making a fourth and a foot against Auburn. Everybody forgets that our defense let them drive 80 yards in less than a minute, running the ball down our throats, without us ever making one single adjustment, both before the half, and at the end of the game.
That's Nuss's fault, right? That falls on the shoulders of the OC, right?
With all due respect, with the exception of the 6-3 loss to LSU in 2012, we've lost every game we've lost because our defense couldn't get the job done.
If you can't see it, then just think about it for a bit. If you still can't see it, then you're just bitter because a guy left Bama to try and feel appreciated for what he really did and can accomplish.
sip
I disagree about the 2012 A&M game and the AU game last year. We should have easily scored 35+ at least in those two games. In this era of offense you are doing good to hold these HUNH offenses to 24 or less. Could the defense have played better? Sure it could have. I just think the opposing defenses in those two games I referenced were so bad that we should have outscored both those teams easily. Its a team game though and we need solid offense defense and ST play to win those big time games.
 

Alasippi

Suspended
Aug 31, 2007
12,875
2
57
Ocean Springs, MS
I disagree about the 2012 A&M game and the AU game last year. We should have easily scored 35+ at least in those two games. In this era of offense you are doing good to hold these HUNH offenses to 24 or less. Could the defense have played better? Sure it could have. I just think the opposing defenses in those two games I referenced were so bad that we should have outscored both those teams easily. Its a team game though and we need solid offense defense and ST play to win those big time games.
Yeah we could have...but our defense could have also held teams within four touchdowns of what we were giving up for the year. My goodness, like I said, NOBODY, is going to place any blame on Kirby, or Nick..the chosen perfect ones. They are beyond reproach and have never made a mistake.
Nuss? Oh he was totally incompetent! It was all his fault.
sip
 

RTR91

Super Moderator
Nov 23, 2007
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In the three losses we experienced during Nuss's tenure, to Texas A&M, Auburn, and Oklahoma we averaged scoring 27.3 points per game. 24, 28, and 31.
Those defenses gave up 21.8 (+2), 24.7 (+3), and 22.1 (+9) points a game. Alabama averaged 38.1 points a game this past year and 38.7 points last year. None of those defenses are good, and they held Alabama below its average by at least a touchdown.

Our defense, in those games gave up 29, 34, and 45 points, an average of 36 points per game.
That was close to four touchdowns per game over the season average we had allowed.
In 2012, Alabama's defense gave up 10.9 points a game but allowed 29 points to Texas A&M - a team that averaged 44.5 points a game. IOW, they gave up 2 points more than they average but scored 15 points less than their average.

In 2013, Alabama allowed 13.9 points a game. Auburn averaged 39.5 points a game, which is a 5.5 point difference than what they scored against Alabama. Oklahoma averaged 32.8 points a game, which is 2 points more than what Alabama allowed.

Point being the defense held each team under its season average, so you can't really use that to point blame towards Kirby or Saban or Nuss for the offense not meeting its average.

I'll agree that Mcelwain was much better as an offensive coordinator. After all, in Bryant Denny, he was incredible in orchestrating the three points against LSU in the game we lost 6-3.
He really turned on the motor scoring 21 points in the BCS Championship Game.
BTW, our defense in those games gave up a total of six points.
So, did the offense win those games? Did Mcelwain?
I think not.
Is this serious? Talking about one of the best defensive teams in the history of college football.

I've been on this board for I can't even tell you how long, but I can say this with no reservation--I have never seen a negative comment about Kirby Smart or Coach Saban, and his coaching of the secondary. The fact is, in the games we lost in the last two years, it wasn't Nuss's fault. We scored way enough points, we just couldn't stop anybody.
I know that's not true because several of us have talked how Saban and Kirby needed to change things.

"We scored way enough points," really? We scored at least less than 7 points than our season average.

With all due respect, with the exception of the 6-3 loss to LSU in 2012, we've lost every game we've lost because our defense couldn't get the job done.
Did the offense score a touchdown every single possession? Did they have zero turnovers? Did the offense have a perfect game? If not, don't say the games were lost because the defense couldn't get the job done.

If you can't see it, then just think about it for a bit. If you still can't see it, then you're just bitter because a guy left Bama to try and feel appreciated for what he really did and can accomplish.
sip
I supported Nuss when folks were crowing about him not doing what they wanted. I got fed up with the play calling, though. He was predictable. We all knew what was coming. The first 1st and 10 in the opponent's territory was going to be a play action bomb. Knew it was coming.
 

crimsonaudio

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Sep 9, 2002
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If you can't see it, then just think about it for a bit. If you still can't see it, then you're just bitter because a guy left Bama to try and feel appreciated for what he really did and can accomplish.
To be fair, it doesn't matter if you march up and down the field if you do it quickly, not eating clock. Bama was down almost 40ypg rushing last year, while averaging the highest number of yards per carry ever under Saban at Bama - we had the horses to run the ball, but Nuss was far to reliant on passes - specifically those that were in predictable circumstances.

Yes, I think Smart and Saban did a good job covering the issues in our secondary most of last year but no, they are not beyond being questions. That said, when Bama needed to be able to outscore people (aside from A&M), they couldn't do it. The numbers look great, but in the games that mattered, weren't really there.

When Bama can average 5.8 yards per attempted carry and ends up with the lowest total number of rushing yard (for the season and per game) since 2010, I'd say they didn't stick to the formula that has consistently worked under CNS.

Not to mention not throwing to Howard or handing the ball to Henry when they were hot. Heck, my OU friends are still baffled (as am I) why they stopped running Henry when they obviously had no answer for him...

Nuss wasn't awful, but the losses could just as easily be blamed on the offense than the D. And the D coaches have proved themselves over and over.

My .02...
 

Alasippi

Suspended
Aug 31, 2007
12,875
2
57
Ocean Springs, MS
To be fair, it doesn't matter if you march up and down the field if you do it quickly, not eating clock. Bama was down almost 40ypg rushing last year, while averaging the highest number of yards per carry ever under Saban at Bama - we had the horses to run the ball, but Nuss was far to reliant on passes - specifically those that were in predictable circumstances.

Yes, I think Smart and Saban did a good job covering the issues in our secondary most of last year but no, they are not beyond being questions. That said, when Bama needed to be able to outscore people (aside from A&M), they couldn't do it. The numbers look great, but in the games that mattered, weren't really there.

When Bama can average 5.8 yards per attempted carry and ends up with the lowest total number of rushing yard (for the season and per game) since 2010, I'd say they didn't stick to the formula that has consistently worked under CNS.

Not to mention not throwing to Howard or handing the ball to Henry when they were hot. Heck, my OU friends are still baffled (as am I) why they stopped running Henry when they obviously had no answer for him...

Nuss wasn't awful, but the losses could just as easily be blamed on the offense than the D. And the D coaches have proved themselves over and over.

My .02...
O.K. Audio, let's just say I agree that Nuss was just, "OK", in the games against AU and Oklahoma.
How would you rate Coach Smart's and Coach Saban's performance coaching the defense in those two games?
sip
 

CrimsonForce

Hall of Fame
Dec 20, 2012
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Yeah we could have...but our defense could have also held teams within four touchdowns of what we were giving up for the year. My goodness, like I said, NOBODY, is going to place any blame on Kirby, or Nick..the chosen perfect ones. They are beyond reproach and have never made a mistake.
Nuss? Oh he was totally incompetent! It was all his fault.
sip
are you seriously using an obviously inflated defensive ppg average to support your argument? yea we hold FCS teams and other scrub teams to shutouts or close to it. stats mean nothing. IMO our offense has played worse than our defense in the big games we have lost the since 2012, mainly the 2012 A&M game and the AU game last year. this isn't the old days when we can shut HUNH offenses out or hold them to 10 or less. when the team we are playing has a weak defense our offense should dominate the game. we shouldn't rely on our defense trying to dominate a very strong HUNH offense. can't do it the way the rules are slanted to help the offense.
 

Alasippi

Suspended
Aug 31, 2007
12,875
2
57
Ocean Springs, MS
are you seriously using an obviously inflated defensive ppg average to support your argument? yea we hold FCS teams and other scrub teams to shutouts or close to it. stats mean nothing. IMO our offense has played worse than our defense in the big games we have lost the since 2012, mainly the 2012 A&M game and the AU game last year. this isn't the old days when we can shut HUNH offenses out or hold them to 10 or less. when the team we are playing has a weak defense our offense should dominate the game. we shouldn't rely on our defense trying to dominate a very strong HUNH offense. can't do it the way the rules are slanted to help the offense.
I'm going to post this one more time and then I'm stopping for the night. Nobody, absolutely nobody, on this board will even dare say anything negative about Kirby Smart, or Coach Saban, and his secondary coaching last year. Nor will they give Nuss any credit, other than, "He was OK".
T'J' fumbles on the one yard line against Texas A&M last year when we could could have gone ahead by four touchdowns. Two plays later they throw a 95 yard touchdown pass.
That sorry Nuss, he should have taught those DB's not to get beat deep with a three touchdown lead.
Give me a break.
We ended up winning the game 49-42.
THANK GOD for Coach Smart's and Coach Saban's defense. Otherwise, we wouldn't have had a chance to overcome Nuss's futility as an offensive co-ordinator.
I'm baffled.
I'm just baffled, and amazed.
We won one game when we gave up 42 points, and we lost two when we gave up 34 and 45 points, and we blame the offensive co-ordinator without even mentioning the defense.
Maybe we should join the Big-12.
sip
 

crimsonaudio

Administrator
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I'm going to post this one more time and then I'm stopping for the night. Nobody, absolutely nobody, on this board will even dare say anything negative about Kirby Smart, or Coach Saban, and his secondary coaching last year.
I'm not sure what happened to your reading comprehension, but I said that I felt their coaching was 'not good at all' in the post directly above yours.

I think you've made up your mind and are currently blinded by something. I'll not venture a guess what. Probably best if you wait and come back tomorrow.
 

Alasippi

Suspended
Aug 31, 2007
12,875
2
57
Ocean Springs, MS
I'm not sure what happened to your reading comprehension, but I said that I felt their coaching was 'not good at all' in the post directly above yours.

I think you've made up your mind and are currently blinded by something. I'll not venture a guess what. Probably best if you wait and come back tomorrow.
I was responding to Crimson Force's post, not yours Audio. I'm pretty passionate about this so, I agree with you, and I think I should just shut up. Have a good night.
sip
 

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