Link: Child’s Death in Hot Car Leads to Unusual Murder Charge

TIDE-HSV

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If people had waited until today to condemn the guy. Again, I'm not defending him. The best thing you could say right now is that this is severe negligence, and even that is going to be worthy of prison. But two weeks ago before we knew all that we know now, every news site in America had commenters anxious to feed this guy to the wolves with no consideration of the fact that sometimes these tragedies occur without negligence or ill intent. There was no concern for the rights of the accused.

That said, i think he's guilty based on what we've heard today.
Why don't we forget what's past and move from this point forward. Remember - those who smelled something bad from the beginning turned out to be right. Forget the old "circumstantial evidence" bit. There have been a lot of life and death sentences both based on just such. His circumstantial evidence has piled up to a mountain's worth...
 

TIDE-HSV

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I guess that is the tricky part huh? Doubting it was an accident is one thing. Being 100% sure it was NOT is a completely different thing. Especially when you are talking about a possible death penalty case. All they presented is a bunch of circumstantial evidence. Sexting women that day makes him sleezeball, but not a child murderer. Backing into the spot doesn't mean he used the rearview and saw the kid. There is no proof that he looked into the backseat when he went to the car at lunch. A bunch of people read about/watch messed up stuff on reddit, but they aren't child murderers. Some people read stuff like \r\childfree because it's like watching a train wreck. They said they were in financial trouble, but what exactly does that mean? $25k insurance policy isn't going to do squat. Esp after you pay for a funeral. Now if it were 100k or 200k yeah maybe.

I think he is guilty , but are you going to get an entire jury that does too?
The testimony about the smell in the car (which I expected) didn't catch your ear? I'm not sure why you're doggedly defending this guy. Right now, he's trailing 25-0 with five minutes left, and your "bunch of circumstantial evidence" is very puzzling to a lawyer...
 
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CrimsonProf

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Why don't we forget what's past and move from this point forward. Remember - those who smelled something bad from the beginning turned out to be right. Forget the old "circumstantial evidence" bit. There have been a lot of life and death sentences both based on just such. His circumstantial evidence has piled up to a mountain's worth...
Indeed.
 

TIDE-HSV

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We were not going to hear much in the way of a defense case today. The defense knew there was just too much to overcome to not expect him to be bound over. In addition, he's a serious suicide risk, which the judge could easily see. The plan for the day for the defense was to try see what the prosecution had (they haven't seen it all yet, hence the remark about the computer that they haven't even "scratched the surface:), poke a few holes and, as posted above, try to nail the prosecution to their stories. I thought the prosecution did a great job. They went out on no limbs. They were very cagey and didn't state nearly as much as they could - just enough to insure that he stayed in jail. Going to be interesting, if very distasteful. I cannot imagine a father researching what a "child-free" life would be like. I show you someone who should never have been a father...
 

NationalTitles18

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I have said that one or two pieces of circumstantial evidence doesn't prove much. The more pieces that are added the easier it is to believe this may have been an intentional act.

My main points all along had less to do with his guilt or innocence than with how to stop true accidents from occurring and waiting until evidence is brought forth to make a judgement in this case.

I do hope discussions continue to help prevent future deaths. You could say it would make no difference in this case, but imagine ho someone would defend himself if his doors refused to lock until the rear door was opened due to the sensed weight in the back seat. Not only would such technology make it harder to forget your kid, but feigning forgetfulness would be much tougher as well.
 

TIDE-HSV

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I have said that one or two pieces of circumstantial evidence doesn't prove much. The more pieces that are added the easier it is to believe this may have been an intentional act.

My main points all along had less to do with his guilt or innocence than with how to stop true accidents from occurring and waiting until evidence is brought forth to make a judgement in this case.

I do hope discussions continue to help prevent future deaths. You could say it would make no difference in this case, but imagine ho someone would defend himself if his doors refused to lock until the rear door was opened due to the sensed weight in the back seat. Not only would such technology make it harder to forget your kid, but feigning forgetfulness would be much tougher as well.
Not bad at all and the technology exists to implement it easily...
 

TIDE-HSV

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Guess the cop was right.



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Their early statements were extremely aggressive, so much so that I was a bit taken aback. I remember thinking that they were either incompetent or they'd discovered a smoking gun. Looks more and more like it's the latter. The cop was definitely sandbagging on the computer. I think they have a lot more there...
 

TideMom2Boys

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I have said that one or two pieces of circumstantial evidence doesn't prove much. The more pieces that are added the easier it is to believe this may have been an intentional act.

My main points all along had less to do with his guilt or innocence than with how to stop true accidents from occurring and waiting until evidence is brought forth to make a judgement in this case.

I do hope discussions continue to help prevent future deaths. You could say it would make no difference in this case, but imagine ho someone would defend himself if his doors refused to lock until the rear door was opened due to the sensed weight in the back seat. Not only would such technology make it harder to forget your kid, but feigning forgetfulness would be much tougher as well.
That at is a good idea. I like how my car has a sensor in the back. That knows if a person in the back seat is not wearing a seatbelt after they fasten it. Since you know how kids sometimes will take their seatbelts off. It let's out a ding and flashes a symbol for me.

I could see them adding something like you said as well. But maybe also with the locking, add a dinging sound or chime to let you know when you turn the car off and shut all doors. Like how my car does that if I leave my key fob in the car. It honks the horn and reminds you that you left it.
 
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2003TIDE

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Despite what we learn on television, "circumstantial" evidence is just evidence that is not direct, i.e. witness evidence. So pretty much all evidence is circumstantial, and it underlies the vast majority of convictions.
Yeah I know that.

I'm not sure why you're doggedly defending this guy.
I'm not defending the guy. I think he's guilty. I was just pointing out things in reply to TideMom2Boys saying she hoped he doesn't get off like Casey Anthony. I hadn't really seen about the car smell. That's pretty damning. I think in a lot of these cases the prosecutors over charge and that is why people get off. IMO if they wanted jail time they should go for a lower charge.

You're the lawyer. You think they can get a jury that makes murder 1 with the death penalty stick? Because that is what i read they are thinking about.
 

TIDE-HSV

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Yeah I know that.



I'm not defending the guy. I think he's guilty. I was just pointing out things in reply to TideMom2Boys saying she hoped he doesn't get off like Casey Anthony. I hadn't really seen about the car smell. That's pretty damning. I think in a lot of these cases the prosecutors over charge and that is why people get off. IMO if they wanted jail time they should go for a lower charge.

You're the lawyer. You think they can get a jury that makes murder 1 with the death penalty stick? Because that is what i read they are thinking about.
I was actually waiting on the smell testimony and I expected the answer. You can be sure that it wasn't only the lieutenant and sergeant who caught that smell. I'm sure they made certain that a bunch of people smelled it. Yes, unless the defense has some amazing exculpatory evidence, people have been put to death with this amount of evidence. It all depends on the jury. That's always the wild card. Not many lawyers thought Anthony would get off either. Jury selection will be very interesting. Normally, in a murder case, you want to get as many women on as possible, because, generally, women are more prone to be merciful. However, this is a totally different case. Women may tend to be even harsher on a child murderer, and he has too much other stuff on him - if they can get it in - for him to be a sympathetic figure. If he ends up in general population, I give him five years life expectancy, tops...
 

TommyMac

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Watching him yesterday I got the impression that it was just dawning on him the enormity of what he had done and it was slowly sinking in that his sorry arse wasn't going to get away with it.

I got no sense of him mourning the loss of his son, only that he realized that his goose was cooked.
 

TideMom2Boys

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Yeah I know that.



I'm not defending the guy. I think he's guilty. I was just pointing out things in reply to TideMom2Boys saying she hoped he doesn't get off like Casey Anthony. I hadn't really seen about the car smell. That's pretty damning. I think in a lot of these cases the prosecutors over charge and that is why people get off. IMO if they wanted jail time they should go for a lower charge.

You're the lawyer. You think they can get a jury that makes murder 1 with the death penalty stick? Because that is what i read they are thinking about.

I wouldn't doubt he says he had sinus problems that day.
 

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