Link: How Michigan's Greed Alienated Fans: A Cautionary Tale For All College Football

B1GTide

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Apr 13, 2012
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The author tries to make this about money/greed, but student ticket purchasing dropoff is a result of their seating rule change. Students want to sit with their friends and they can't do that anymore unless they show up at the gate at the same time. That is stupid.
 

JDCrimson

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Simple fact is the colleges and TV are going to have to call on some of the tactics used by the pros to maintain attendance. Essentially speaking its in TV's best interest for stadiums to be full as it has an impact on who and how many fans watch and stay tuned in to the game on TV. If the stadium is less than full it translates to the viewer at home less interest in following the game.

I thought about starting a thread on this the other day but I think it is appropriate here. I am a season ticket holder. I usually go to one away game each year buying tickets on the market. I have been to one of the 3 NC games. And I have been to a couple of SEC Championship games as well in the last few years. So I consider myself an above average follower of the Tide. I dont really have any other hobbies that compete with my interest in Bama Football.

That being said and with the advent of the College Football Playoff this fall, I will be keenly interested in the ticket demand for the playoff teams. Bottom line, there is no way that I will be able to even remotely afford to attend a SEC Championship Game, a CFP semi-final game, and a National Championship. Out of the 3 I will have to pick one, I am betting the National Championship as a result will out price my budget. Maybe the semi-final playoff game too. The SEC Championship game may still attainable maybe even more so because I think CFP de-values the SEC Championship game somewhat.

But overall, I think the CFP is going to be a corporate event like the Super Bowl and us joe-fans are going to be essentially locked out of following our chosen school in the post-season. Depending on how the selection committee conducts business in choosing the teams and the transparency with which it selects the teams and the economics of attending the CFP for fans, I think there is a strong possibility of the fans pushing back on this model where a huge chunk of college football fans just lose interest altogether.
 

cbi1972

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But overall, I think the CFP is going to be a corporate event like the Super Bowl and us joe-fans are going to be essentially locked out of following our chosen school in the post-season. Depending on how the selection committee conducts business in choosing the teams and the transparency with which it selects the teams and the economics of attending the CFP for fans, I think there is a strong possibility of the fans pushing back on this model where a huge chunk of college football fans just lose interest altogether.
I have trouble mustering $ympathy for people whose favorite sports teams are wildly successful.
Just having that success is enough for me. I am fine watching on TV if the live event is out of reach.
You want to afford to attend the games, you can support a crummy team.
 

B1GTide

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I have trouble mustering $ympathy for people whose favorite sports teams are wildly successful.
Just having that success is enough for me. I am fine watching on TV if the live event is out of reach.
You want to afford to attend the games, you can support a crummy team.
I tend to agree. The higher ticket costs are produced on the secondary ticket market and only driven by demand. Neither the school nor the secondary market provider drive the price - it is the consumer. Season ticket holders are able to resell some of their tickets for so much more than they paid for them that a single game could pay for their entire season.

If Michigan wants to see lower ticket prices, all they have to do is continue to put a losing product on the field. Eventually even their fans will stop buying those tickets.

BTW - I do see greed at the "club membership" level at a lot of schools. When it costs $20k in membership dues to have a shot at season tickets, something has gone horribly wrong.
 

rgw

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I think the growing "empty seats" problem in college stadiums is telling about problems in the new college football business model. The stuff with the students is sort of a derivative of the problem and not the closest root symptom.
 

mdb-tpet

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Sep 2, 2004
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I agree with the basic thesis of this article, that greed and a desire to squeeze all of the revenue out of football fans will eventually damage the sport beyond repair. Compare that with the salaries the players make...

I only go to a game every few years, as it's just too much of a chore to go more while living out of state. I've always loved the homey fell of a college football game, and I'm not excited about hearing more advertisements in the stadium or paying the excessive prices at the concession stand. But, I understand why a business CEO would not understand football and only see more possible revenue when people still purchase your products.
 

4Q Basket Case

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The author is onto something. But he uses the wrong example, and his logic is flawed.

First, Michigan had over 43K students enrolled in the fall of 2013. Making the heroic assumption that the fall of 2014 will be comparable, the sale of 13K - 14K (call it 13,500) student tickets is in fact about 30%. Which means nearly 70% of students aren't even trying to spend their fall Saturdays at a game. And they get the tickets for almost nothing, especially when viewed in the context the cost for a year at UM. It's not the cost of the tickets. It's not the cost of concessions (in our student days, who among us didn't smuggle in "concessions" to tide us over until the game was over?). It's the fact that, with other alternatives easily available, a lot of students just don't care. And the ones that do, don't care enough to go to the trouble.

I've actually been to a game at The Big House. It's a dump. A Big Dump, but a Dump nonetheless. And while my visit was nearly 30 years ago, renovation to assuage the objections around waiting in line for this and that would be exceedingly difficult. Most of the stadium is actually below ground level. You walk in at somewhere around the 50th row. So there is no overhang in which to expand or spruce up bathrooms, concessions, etc.

While the Rose Bowl is built only a little below ground level, it has the same issues. The difference is, at the Rose Bowl, you have an azure blue sky behind the Pasadena mountains around the stadium. At The Big House, you have, well, the Ann Arbor sky (definitely not skyline). Which is gray most of the time. Look, I'm sure the UM stadium has been upgraded since my visit. But you can polish a coprolite only so much. Bottom line is that the UM student apathy is real, and only part of that is alternative Saturday entertainment.

That's not to say the author's point is without merit. It isn't.

The reason Alabama hasn't had this problem (yet) is the success of the team on the field.

Yes, we have a problem with student apathy. We had that when I was blessed to be an undergraduate in the previous Glory Years of the late 1970s. Back then, kind of like the Roman plebiscite, we sat on our hands, drank bourbon, and waited for the next victim to be trotted out. It's not that we were so much ego-driven. It's that we didn't know any different. Today's UA students were somewhere between 10 and 14 in Shula's last year. They don't know what it's like to lose seven times to Tennessee. Or have to rely on miracles against Auburn. Or relish a trip to...The Poulan Weed-Eater Independence Bowl. They're spoiled. They show up late and leave early. We would have done the same if we had 70-inch HDTV, air-conditioned, cheap booze alternatives. Not to mention, having to drive to Birmingham for half our home games and be hopelessly blocked in at our parking spot in a back yard a few scary blocks from Legion Field.

The differences between Michigan's current situation and Alabama's are:
-- Our students care more than theirs, especially when leveling for the differences in the sizes of the student bodies
-- On a per-capita basis, our alumni give more than theirs (in everything, not just athletics)
-- Their stadium is nowhere near as nice as ours, even if it is slightly bigger
-- They're not winning at the level they're used to
-- When they get a chance to prove they're really, really, really (no, really) back this time, they step on their ties -- see Dallas, August 2012

The cautionary tale is that, when we're no longer winning at this level, whether it's before Saban retires or after, we'll have some of the same issues. It's just that the exponential escalation of the cost of playing college football at this level happened at the same time as we were in a Golden Age.

How do I know this to be true? Personal experience. Immediately after the 2003 season (4-9, capped by a loss to Hawaii, for those who conveniently erased the debacle from their memory banks), I upgraded my Tide Pride from the Touchdown Club to the Crimson Tide Club. At the time, the move cost nothing. The club dues were more, but the move itself was free. Today, that same move would easily cost low five figures. Plus the increased cost of the club. The difference is clear: when we weren't winning, the move was easy. Now that we are, it's hard as hell and expensive to boot.

To sum up:
-- The author's logic and examples are fractured
-- His conclusion is not
-- We could be in the same boat when the current Golden Age fades
-- Even then, we have a lot of advantages over Michigan, and all other traditional powers
-- So don't squander the good times
 
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theballguy

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Nov 5, 2012
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Simple fact is the colleges and TV are going to have to call on some of the tactics used by the pros to maintain attendance. Essentially speaking its in TV's best interest for stadiums to be full as it has an impact on who and how many fans watch and stay tuned in to the game on TV. If the stadium is less than full it translates to the viewer at home less interest in following the game.

I thought about starting a thread on this the other day but I think it is appropriate here. I am a season ticket holder. I usually go to one away game each year buying tickets on the market. I have been to one of the 3 NC games. And I have been to a couple of SEC Championship games as well in the last few years. So I consider myself an above average follower of the Tide. I dont really have any other hobbies that compete with my interest in Bama Football.

That being said and with the advent of the College Football Playoff this fall, I will be keenly interested in the ticket demand for the playoff teams. Bottom line, there is no way that I will be able to even remotely afford to attend a SEC Championship Game, a CFP semi-final game, and a National Championship. Out of the 3 I will have to pick one, I am betting the National Championship as a result will out price my budget. Maybe the semi-final playoff game too. The SEC Championship game may still attainable maybe even more so because I think CFP de-values the SEC Championship game somewhat.

But overall, I think the CFP is going to be a corporate event like the Super Bowl and us joe-fans are going to be essentially locked out of following our chosen school in the post-season. Depending on how the selection committee conducts business in choosing the teams and the transparency with which it selects the teams and the economics of attending the CFP for fans, I think there is a strong possibility of the fans pushing back on this model where a huge chunk of college football fans just lose interest altogether.
Super Bowls have had this issue for some time now. Most of the people at the Super Bowl are actually not fans of either teams (despite the jerseys and face paint). Just people with a lot of $. My 2 cents.
 

WylieTexasTider

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I tend to agree. The higher ticket costs are produced on the secondary ticket market and only driven by demand. Neither the school nor the secondary market provider drive the price - it is the consumer. Season ticket holders are able to resell some of their tickets for so much more than they paid for them that a single game could pay for their entire season.

If Michigan wants to see lower ticket prices, all they have to do is continue to put a losing product on the field. Eventually even their fans will stop buying those tickets.

BTW - I do see greed at the "club membership" level at a lot of schools. When it costs $20k in membership dues to have a shot at season tickets, something has gone horribly wrong.
The club membership cost can come back to bite.... A family friend who is a huge Aggie booster told the administration to shove their seats up their butts when they asked for another $10k per seat. Said he could buy all games on stub hub cheaper and sit 50yrd line.

Not CFB but, back in 1998-2001 the Dallas Stars were the ticket in Dallas. Lower level blue line seats were $100 a game/$4100 season. 2 coworkers sold 25 of their home tickets for an average of $250. Basically, they made $2150 to attend 16 games. More important, the $2150 paid for the playoff tickets! The Stars kept raising prices and once they started losing the 'be seen' crowd bailed, tickets sold on stub hub below price and the same blue line seats today are $85.

With 4k ultra def TV's I really worry how long it is before BDS has 20k empty seats for non conf games vs FCS and non big 5 conference teams. I went to every home game as a student and select road games. I've been to 2 of the 3 recent BCS games and the 2011 LSU 9-6 game. Had a blast at all 3 however, by the time you factor boarding our dogs, airport parking, 2 RT plane tickets for the wife and I, hotel for 2 nights, car rental, decent game tickets, lower level between 30's it's $1500 or almost 1/2 the cost of an ultra def 4k TV.
 

tidefanbeezer

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This problem is not unique to college football. Spots are geared to draw in TV eyeballs, not to fill all the seats in the stadium. It's understandable, since TV is the lions share of revenue for any sport.

It would be nice if schools/owners carved out a small fraction of the TV money to subsidize stadium operations. Most folks I know that are sports fans don't attend the games live because its become so expensive. Pay for parking, concessions and tickets and you can easily drop $150 attending almost any sporting event. I'd be willing to bet that attendance would improve if prices were reduced.
 

lowend

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The stadium was also much smaller then and you couldn't see every game on tv. We are already far from full when we are playing the Crap State games. A lot of the crowd for those games is made up of Bubbas getting tickets at rock bottom prices. I think we've reached the pinnacle of big stadiums. Like we're seeing with baseball, the M.O. going forward will be smaller, but nicer. Baylor is on the right track.
 

WylieTexasTider

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Sep 24, 2006
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Most folks I know that are sports fans don't attend the games live because its become so expensive. Pay for parking said:
Agree 100%.... My wife and I are both fortunate enough to have great paying jobs and could easily afford to attend more sporting events than we do. However, living in Dallas, the only team I really like are the Dallas Stars. We used to have season tickets but, for what we paid for tickets and parking, we could buy a new HD TV every season and have better seats on the couch. But, even if they did lower the cost of tickets, I still think the nose bleeds will be hard to sell for games against "Mother Mary of the blind, deaf and mute".

Should something ever happen and BDS be replaced, wouldn't be suprised if it was a 80K-85K state of the art stadium with excellent sightlines and ammenities.
 

4Q Basket Case

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The club membership cost can come back to bite.... A family friend who is a huge Aggie booster told the administration to shove their seats up their butts when they asked for another $10k per seat. Said he could buy all games on stub hub cheaper and sit 50yrd line.

Not CFB but, back in 1998-2001 the Dallas Stars were the ticket in Dallas. Lower level blue line seats were $100 a game/$4100 season. 2 coworkers sold 25 of their home tickets for an average of $250. Basically, they made $2150 to attend 16 games. More important, the $2150 paid for the playoff tickets! The Stars kept raising prices and once they started losing the 'be seen' crowd bailed, tickets sold on stub hub below price and the same blue line seats today are $85.

With 4k ultra def TV's I really worry how long it is before BDS has 20k empty seats for non conf games vs FCS and non big 5 conference teams. I went to every home game as a student and select road games. I've been to 2 of the 3 recent BCS games and the 2011 LSU 9-6 game. Had a blast at all 3 however, by the time you factor boarding our dogs, airport parking, 2 RT plane tickets for the wife and I, hotel for 2 nights, car rental, decent game tickets, lower level between 30's it's $1500 or almost 1/2 the cost of an ultra def 4k TV.
I work with an Aggie, and he explained the resistance of The 12th Man to the recently-requested increase.

Apparently, when the last renovation of Kyle Field took place in the 1980s or 90s, aTm administration promised a lifetime seat license in exchange for a pretty large (especially for the day 20 - 30 years ago) one-time payment. Lots of Ags participated.

Now, they're asking the same Ags for a lot more money to keep their accustomed viewing spot, justifying it with the statement that the lifetime seat license was for that seat, which is now demolished. No more seat --> no more obligation on the part of aTm to forego further seat license income. Pay up for a new seat. Or you can always sit in your old one...which is now at the bottom of a landfill somewhere.

The Ags who bought in years ago naturally feel shafted. And they were. That's why they're understandably saying the admin can shove their new seats where the sun don't shine.
 
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Crimson1967

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I work with an Aggie, and he explained the resistance of The 12th Man to the recently-requested increase.

Apparently, when the last renovation took place in the 1980s or 90s, aTm administration promised a lifetime seat license in exchange for a pretty large (especially for the day 20 - 30 years ago) one-time payment. Lots of Ags participated.

Now, they're asking the same Ags for more money, justifying it with the statement that the lifetime seat license was for that seat, which is now demolished. No more seat --> no more obligation on the part of aTm to forego further seat license income. Pay up for a new seat. Or you can always sit in your old one...which is now at the bottom of a landfill somewhere.

The Ags who bought in years ago naturally feel shafted. And they were. That's why they're understandably saying the admin can shove their new seats where the sun don't shine.
That is the most bizzare logic I've ever seen. It sounds like something out of a comedy sketch. They put a new seat in (I assume) the exact same spot as the old one and you now have to pay for it after shelling out the big bucks years ago.
 

4Q Basket Case

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I don't recall Alabama having a problem selling tickets from 1997 through 2006.
As others have replied the stadium was smaller then. Plus, tickets and Tide Pride were cheaper, and alternatives (large screen HDTV) weren't as attractive or as affordable as they are now. I know for a stone cold fact that the waiting lists weren't as long then, even with the more limited alternatives of the day...I personally took advantage of the opportunity that presented.

Trust me. If we have three consecutive years of non-BCS bowls, you'll see some of the same issues other schools are facing start to crop up. Maybe to that extent, maybe not. With 5 years of it, we'll be right in there where UM is today.
 

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