Ex-Auburn TE Phillip Lutzenkirchen Died in Car Crash

Chukker Veteran said:

I'm not sold on the idea that the general public should be privy to this type info, even though I understand the points you make about why the autopsy info was made public. My thought is that common decency would keep this info about Lutz private to not add to his family's grief. But evidently that's not the top priority in situations like this.

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Some states keep them sealed, but a lot make them available under FOIL requests. Obviously you do have to keep in mind the privacy of the surviving family, but even so the argument that it's not a public record is a tough one to make. After all, it's a written report prepared by what is typically an elected official, running a governmental agency, all being funded by taxpayer dollars. Together, that's the basic formula for a public record. Plus, obviously there are some public policy arguments to be made in support, too, such as minimizing hearsay and speculation, educating the public, and some First Amendment issues in higher profile cases.

The bigger fight has been not over the reports themselves, but over autopsy photos. Florida had a big back-and-forth over that with Dale Earnhardt's death several years ago, and that resulted in some legislation being passed and a lot of litigation.

Crimson1967 said:

I didn't know you could still walk at that level.

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I had to look up what the level of blood alcohol poisoning was. He was there.

http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/AlcoholOverdoseFactsheet/Overdosefact.htm

Wow, how much would someone his size have to consume to be that intoxicated?

Crimson1967 said:

I didn't know you could still walk at that level.

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I didn't know you could even live at that level.

Country singer Keith Whitley had a BAC of .47 when he died. The Wikipedia article on him said that was the equivalent of drinking 20 one ounce shots of 100 proof whiskey.

crimsonaudio said:

Philip Lutzenkirchen was over 250 lbs last year at Auburn...

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Having worked in the treatment field and coming from a long line of alcoholics within my family, I've seen patients come in for detox and treatment with BAC"s in the lethal range. Some functioning remarkably well considering their level of intoxication. One lady was at the .48 range and was walking and talking (although obviously intoxicated). In most all these cases, these patients had been consuming large amounts over extended periods, from many months to many years. For an individual that is generally a periodic "social drinker", the patient would usually "pass out" well before reaching the levels greater than the .25 to .30 range.

Leads me to believe the young man was on the verge of developing an alcohol abuse issue, if he wasn't already there. So very, very sad.

Damn, I hate the disease.

Crimson1967 said:

Country singer Keith Whitley had a BAC of .47 when he died. The Wikipedia article on him said that was the equivalent of drinking 20 one ounce shots of 100 proof whiskey.

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CRAP!!! Wow!!!

CB4 said:

Having worked in the treatment field and coming from a long line of alcoholics within my family, I've seen patients come in for detox and treatment with BAC"s in the lethal range. Some functioning remarkably well considering their level of intoxication. One lady was at the .48 range and was walking and talking (although obviously intoxicated). In most all these cases, these patients had been consuming large amounts over extended periods, from many months to many years. For an individual that is generally a periodic "social drinker", the patient would usually "pass out" well before reaching the levels greater than the .25 to .30 range.

Leads me to believe the young man was on the verge of developing an alcohol abuse issue, if he wasn't already there. So very, very sad.

Damn, I hate the disease.

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Yup, my dad functioned rather normally with a bac between .20-.25. He literally drank so much that that was "normal" for him. Also why he died in terrible health at the young age of 59.

4Q Basket Case said:

Applying Occam's razor (in the absence of contradictory information, the simplest explanation is usually right), I'm guessing he didn't even get into the car. I'd bet he was placed into the car....by friends who had themselves been drinking a lot, and therefore didn't think to buckle in a passed out 250 pounder.

Obviously a large amount of speculation on my part. But the pieces fit logically, and would explain the public facts.

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I don't follow your logic. It was already mentioned several times above that people who are long term abusers can function at 0.377 or even higher. Also, it's a lot simpler to assume that he walked to the car and passed out verses several guys had to put him in the car. At least one of the other passengers was a female, and all of the occupants of the car were drunk. He (@250lbs) wasn't carried to the car by 2 drunk guys and a drunk girl.

4Q Basket Case said:

At .377%, I'm guessing he didn't decide anything. To be 250 pounds +/-, with that count, and assuming he didn't literally turn a bottle of PGA upside down just before the wreck, he would have to have drunk a case of beer, plus a bunch of Jagermeister shots over the course of, say, 3-4 hours.

Looking at all the facts that have come out, I'm guessing he wasn't conscious when the wreck happened. Which is a blessing, if such a thing can happen in these circumstances.

Applying Occam's razor (in the absence of contradictory information, the simplest explanation is usually right), I'm guessing he didn't even get into the car. I'd bet he was placed into the car....by friends who had themselves been drinking a lot, and therefore didn't think to buckle in a passed out 250 pounder.

Obviously a large amount of speculation on my part. But the pieces fit logically, and would explain the public facts.

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At .377, I would assume that beer is not even a possibility, because you would have to consume it over so great of a period of time that it would be hard to reach that high of a number. I would assume that realistically the only way you could get that high of a number, with a kid naturally that big, is probably consuming large quantities of hard liquor in a very short period of time.

Anyway, I think your Occam's razor analogy may very well be right. I'm not sure anyone at that level, regardless of your alcohol tolerance and/or past drinking history, is anything more than a barely functional zombie.

All BAC's are not created equal. Physical size, hepatic metabolism, and overall tolerance to alcohol can make a big difference between one person's BAC of 0.3 and another person's BAC of 0.3. Someone who's got a high tolerance can be moderately intoxicated at that level and someone who's only an occasional (low tolerance) drinker might be unconscious.

Heck, I've seen alcoholics who were already in fulminant withdrawal once their BAC had dropped into the 0.25 range because they were accommodated to a "walking around" BAC of near 0.4.

I think it's reasonable to assume Lutz, who was a large, young, seemingly healthy man who probably drank fairly regularly, was probably lit, but not necessarily near death from the alcohol in his blood. If the driver had a higher tolerance, they may both still be alive. Such a tragic mess.

4Q Basket Case said:

Applying Occam's razor (in the absence of contradictory information, the simplest explanation is usually right), I'm guessing he didn't even get into the car. I'd bet he was placed into the car....by friends who had themselves been drinking a lot, and therefore didn't think to buckle in a passed out 250 pounder.

Obviously a large amount of speculation on my part. But the pieces fit logically, and would explain the public facts.

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Maybe if they had a wheel chair and a ramp and dumped him into the back. Otherwise, a completely passed out person of his size isn't easily moved unless you've got some hosses with you.

gman4tide said:

Yup, my dad functioned rather normally with a bac between .20-.25. He literally drank so much that that was "normal" for him. Also why he died in terrible health at the young age of 59.

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I once knew a guy like that. He was in his early 40s but looked like he was in his 60s. He had about four mixed drinks every day after work at a bar and then who knows what when he got home. I used to watch football at his place on Saturdays (he was a big Bama fan) and he started pretty early but was able to function pretty well even though he was very drunk.

I haven't seen him in over 20 years but I would wager he is deceased if he didn't get help.