Link: Greg McElroy breaks down Auburn's offense

Quarterback · Jun 30, 2014

Greg pretty much reinforced what we already knew, not much to break down, it's brilliant in its simplicity and that they will find an opening and then keep running variations of the play 70% of the time and then repeat when the next wrinkle is found.

It's a whole new game of football, as Greg said, all you can do is simplify your personnel and have the athletes to stop it. Coach Saban plays chess and now has to deal with speed checkers. It is what it is, but I have faith that our coaches will ultimately not just beat, but beat down their scheme.......because it is simplistic.

TIDE-HSV · Jul 1, 2014

Nolan said:
Perhaps a little "moo," but good points nonetheless.

No, a GATech fan who couldn't seem to color between the lines, even after being warned of the short leash for rival fans and for endless wrangling about one point. He got a warning and now he's gone. His basic point, which he inserted in every thread, was that Saban had performed poorly since 2007, given the talent he had ( :rolleye2: ), because he'd lost seven games since 2007. The three NCs didn't seem to matter. I couldn't get through to him, couldn't tolerate him further. The end...

cuda.1973 · Jul 1, 2014

Gee, no more Malachi Constant? (Aka "Space Wanderer")

"Turn the ship upside down, Unk!"

Back to our regular off-season programming.

92tide · Jul 1, 2014

TIDE-HSV said:
No, a GATech fan who couldn't seem to color between the lines, even after being warned of the short leash for rival fans and for endless wrangling about one point. He got a warning and now he's gone. His basic point, which he inserted in every thread, was that Saban had performed poorly since 2007, given the talent he had ( :rolleye2: ), because he'd lost seven games since 2007. The three NCs didn't seem to matter. I couldn't get through to him, couldn't tolerate him further. The end...

so he was a cow in nerd's clothing

although he was more articulate than most barners, im still not convinced he is from the north avenue trade school

JBama_in_PCOLA · Jul 1, 2014

I don't think Greg said anything some of us hadn't said on here. I still think good penetration shuts down that offense. That was something we weren't able to do with any consistency last season. No point of all that misdirection if you have two or three people in your backfield all the time.

I really hope that DL shines through this season.

USCBAMA · Jul 1, 2014

Wanderer said:
Malzahn does a lot of things to put the defense in conflict and causes them to think and make mistakes. He runs a lot of unorthodox formations, motions, and the QB is a potential ballcarrier. I just watched the first two series of the 2013 Iron Bowl. Every Bama run was a direct handoff to Yeldon. Aside from play action, no chance it was anything else. It's kind of like "We are running right directly at you and if we can't physically push you out of the way and/or run over you, this play has no chance." However, on Marshall's early TD run any of three AU players could have had the ball. The WR in motion, the RB, or the QB. The WR brought the OLB upfield and the RB caused the ILB to take false steps. This opened the door for Marshall's TD run. Great misdirection. Didn't have to manhandle either one of those defenders. The scheme took them out of the play. That is great coaching.

I was a little critical of Saban in another thread, and this is one of the reasons why. I don't think what Bama does on offense would have much of a chance with inferior talent. Malzahn, on the other hand, seems to do more things that can be effective without stud players.

If I had to pick a coach to create the Roman Empire out of an elite program, I would pick Saban. But if I had to pick a coach to overachieve with a ragtag unit, I think I would take Malzahn.

That's my opinion.

Maybe Saban runs an offensive scheme that suits superior talent because he has equivalent or superior talent to his opponents 99% of the time. If he were coaching elsewhere I would think he would be smart enough to adjust what he does. A good coach is a good coach, and in a world where many are flocking to the gimmick offenses Saban has been smart enough to not follow the flock. There is nothing wrong with lining up behind a couple of All-SEC linemen and handing the ball off to an All-American RB, it's a good gameplan if the talent is right.

BamaMoon · Jul 1, 2014

This argument the CNS has to have "better" players is getting so old!!! Isn't that the desire of every coach to have the better players??? Isn't recruiting part of coaching???

BTW, glad to see the "wanderer" get the boot. It was apparent he came here to stir the pot.

BamaMoon · Jul 1, 2014

Am I the only one who is happy to hear Gus plans to pass more???

The barn's success last year was because they could do one thing better than anybody else: control the LOS with a dominant, downhill rushing attach. I'm glad to hear they are going to move away from that and try to pass more.

I think it would be hard for them to replicate the OL chemistry they had last year, but with the loss of their LT Robinson and this desire to pass more, I'm hoping that means they won't be able to control the LOS as well.

Perhaps Marshall will make a believer out of me, but his downfield accuracy doesn't scare me. Hopefully when they start passing more they'll not be as good as running as effectively.

davefrat · Jul 1, 2014

BamaMoon said:
Am I the only one who is happy to hear Gus plans to pass more???

The barn's success last year was because they could do one thing better than anybody else: control the LOS with a dominant, downhill rushing attach. I'm glad to hear they are going to move away from that and try to pass more.

I think it would be hard for them to replicate the OL chemistry they had last year, but with the loss of their LT Robinson and this desire to pass more, I'm hoping that means they won't be able to control the LOS as well.

Perhaps Marshall will make a believer out of me, but his downfield accuracy doesn't scare me. Hopefully when they start passing more they'll not be as good as running as effectively.

it could make them less explosive...then again, it could make them all the much harder to stop.

I was watching a piece about Hannibal on the history channel the other day and they were discussing how he was able to defeat much larger roman forces by using unconventional formations (not including the war elephants) that perplexed the romans (who were often loathe to alter their strategy and tactics) and a willingness to change his own approach when he thought certain matchups were advantageous or not.

the romans chose a leader who decided to change roman strategy to a more defensive limited approach (fabius maximus) and he was successful for a while until romans decided "this ain't the way my daddy fought wars" and decided to go at it old school against Hannibal and the romans were nearly totally destroyed.

it reminded me a bit of what has transpired with us versus auburn over the last few seasons (going back to 2010) when gus was down there.

currently we have an opponent in gus who knows how to exploit our weaknesses and is saavy enough to also use our strengths against us from time to time.

I don't say this with any sense of happiness, but at least in this short term, gus is the perfect foil to saban.

it's the classic example of the risk-taking innovator versus the conservative stalwart.

next year's game should tell us a lot about who is getting the better of whom in this matchup.

BamaJama17 · Jul 1, 2014

Well another thing Wanderer conveniently left out was all the holds, illegal linemen downfield, and NM stepping pass the LOS when he threw that TD pass to Coates.

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BamaJama17 · Jul 1, 2014

BamaMoon said:
This argument the CNS has to have "better" players is getting so old!!! Isn't that the desire of every coach to have the better players??? Isn't recruiting part of coaching???

BTW, glad to see the "wanderer" get the boot. It was apparent he came here to stir the pot.

This I agree with. Alabama already has "better players". Getting penetration with the d-line is exactly the key to slowing down Gus' offense. Also I'm glad it was my thread the got wanderer the boot.

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AlexanderFan · Jul 1, 2014

Break it down however you want, as long as they can shift at will, have illegal formations, and snap the ball before the referees are ready, they will be tough to defend.

As far as passing, that scares me because the formations won't be reviewed. Was he covered up? Is he eligible? Damn they snapped the ball again.

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bamafaninOhiO · Jul 1, 2014

Tideflyer said:
LOTS of truth in what you say, IMHO. Just too much talent accumulated at Bama but that has to be married up with "want to", especially with the barn and the emphasis they openly put on this one game every year.

you dont think the players and coaching staff 'want' to win the iron bowl? do they not live in-state????

I cannot fathom any scenario where the coaches or players dont go into the iron bowl 'wanting' to win the game...

CoachJeff · Jul 1, 2014

davefrat said:
it could make them less explosive...then again, it could make them all the much harder to stop.

I was watching a piece about Hannibal on the history channel the other day and they were discussing how he was able to defeat much larger roman forces by using unconventional formations (not including the war elephants) that perplexed the romans (who were often loathe to alter their strategy and tactics) and a willingness to change his own approach when he thought certain matchups were advantageous or not.

the romans chose a leader who decided to change roman strategy to a more defensive limited approach (fabius maximus) and he was successful for a while until romans decided "this ain't the way my daddy fought wars" and decided to go at it old school against Hannibal and the romans were nearly totally destroyed.

it reminded me a bit of what has transpired with us versus auburn over the last few seasons (going back to 2010) when gus was down there.

currently we have an opponent in gus who knows how to exploit our weaknesses and is saavy enough to also use our strengths against us from time to time.

I don't say this with any sense of happiness, but at least in this short term, gus is the perfect foil to saban.

it's the classic example of the risk-taking innovator versus the conservative stalwart.

next year's game should tell us a lot about who is getting the better of whom in this matchup.

I remember reading about the end of the 1st Punic War when one of the Roman archers shot at Hannibal and missed. Hannibal then grabbed the arrow and ran to Rome and stabbed Julius Caesar in the back with it thereby winning the war for Carthage. At least that's how I remember it.

GP for Bama · Jul 1, 2014

AlexanderFan said:
Break it down however you want, as long as they can shift at will, have illegal formations, and snap the ball before the referees are ready, they will be tough to defend.

As far as passing, that scares me because the formations won't be reviewed. Was he covered up? Is he eligible? Damn they snapped the ball again.

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This is so true. The referees must take back control of the game.

BamaJama17 · Jul 1, 2014

AlexanderFan said:
Break it down however you want, as long as they can shift at will, have illegal formations, and snap the ball before the referees are ready, they will be tough to defend.

As far as passing, that scares me because the formations won't be reviewed. Was he covered up? Is he eligible? Damn they snapped the ball again.

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Well I don't think they will get away with that in BDS or even UGA's stadium or even at KSU for that matter.

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TRU · Jul 1, 2014

I really like this analogy. A similar one that I came up with was was the difference between the approaches of the German and US forces in WWII. The Germans were very highly trained but inflexible. The did what they were trained to do really well but were not good at improvising. CNS teams are a lot like this. The US on the other hand were trained to be flexible, and the field officers were encouraged to use their own initiative to address situations on the ground as it developed. This is the Gus approach, with the triple option leaving the final decision of how the play develops to his field officer, the QB.

I do not see CNS moving to the flexible model, as it is not part of the process. He is more of a control freak and is not likely to be comfortable leaving the fate of the game in the hands of the players on the field.

davefrat said:
it could make them less explosive...then again, it could make them all the much harder to stop.

I was watching a piece about Hannibal on the history channel the other day and they were discussing how he was able to defeat much larger roman forces by using unconventional formations (not including the war elephants) that perplexed the romans (who were often loathe to alter their strategy and tactics) and a willingness to change his own approach when he thought certain matchups were advantageous or not.

the romans chose a leader who decided to change roman strategy to a more defensive limited approach (fabius maximus) and he was successful for a while until romans decided "this ain't the way my daddy fought wars" and decided to go at it old school against Hannibal and the romans were nearly totally destroyed.

it reminded me a bit of what has transpired with us versus auburn over the last few seasons (going back to 2010) when gus was down there.

currently we have an opponent in gus who knows how to exploit our weaknesses and is saavy enough to also use our strengths against us from time to time.

I don't say this with any sense of happiness, but at least in this short term, gus is the perfect foil to saban.

it's the classic example of the risk-taking innovator versus the conservative stalwart.

next year's game should tell us a lot about who is getting the better of whom in this matchup.

USCBAMA · Jul 1, 2014

Recruiting is a huge part of coaching at the college level. In the nfl the coaches have some input into the talent (some more than others) and at the HS level the coaches are mostly dealt a hand they have to work with, but in college the coach has a huge say in the talent around him, in some ways it's one of, if not the most important thing a college coach does. So when someone points out that Saban has great talent at Alabama, that is just another way of saying he is a great college football coach. Now it takes more than talent, but it also takes talent...and getting better talent is one of Saban's jobs. I know of no coach woh would intentionally choose less talented players (all other things such as character being equal). Bear was notorious for winning with inferior talent. But when he went and got some real talent he won at arguably an even higher level. Having top notch talent is one sign of being a great college coach.

When someone presents an anti-Saban argument and list all of his talent as a reason he's not a great coach, turn it around and point out that part of what makes him a great coach is his ability to land all that talent, but properly managing that talent, especially in a true team sport like football, can be very tricky (much easier in basketball where 1 or 2 stars can carry a team on talent alone). Many coaches have failed with talent-laded teams (Faust, Cooper, Brown, etc.).

gtgilbert · Jul 1, 2014

TRU said:
I really like this analogy. A similar one that I came up with was was the difference between the approaches of the German and US forces in WWII. The Germans were very highly trained but inflexible. The did what they were trained to do really well but were not good at improvising. CNS teams are a lot like this. The US on the other hand were trained to be flexible, and the field officers were encouraged to use their own initiative to address situations on the ground as it developed. This is the Gus approach, with the triple option leaving the final decision of how the play develops to his field officer, the QB.

I do not see CNS moving to the flexible model, as it is not part of the process. He is more of a control freak and is not likely to be comfortable leaving the fate of the game in the hands of the players on the field.

I disagree with the flexibility part. Saban's QB's are expected to make a lot of reads and adjustments during the game. They do this before the snap with audibles (changing run/pass, run alignment/side, blocking schemes etc), and after the snap to read how the coverage reacts with several checks that are made against the secondary.

Conversely, the advantage of running the HUNH like Gus does is that his QB makes ZERO reads before the snap, and many times a single read after - sometimes there are two, but not often. The QB makes zero adjustments or audibles before the snap b/c the play is sent in directly from the sideline AFTER the defense lines up and the OC or Gus make the call. The game is much less in his hands than a Saban QB.

BamaMoon · Jul 2, 2014

gtgilbert said:
I disagree with the flexibility part. Saban's QB's are expected to make a lot of reads and adjustments during the game. They do this before the snap with audibles (changing run/pass, run alignment/side, blocking schemes etc), and after the snap to read how the coverage reacts with several checks that are made against the secondary.

Conversely, the advantage of running the HUNH like Gus does is that his QB makes ZERO reads before the snap, and many times a single read after - sometimes there are two, but not often. The QB makes zero adjustments or audibles before the snap b/c the play is sent in directly from the sideline AFTER the defense lines up and the OC or Gus make the call. The game is much less in his hands than a Saban QB.

Much is being made about Gus having Marshall as a second year starter and how that'll help the Barn. But unless Marshall went to "accuracy" school in the offseason he'll just be back in the same place as last year being Gus' qb pawn.

Link: Greg McElroy breaks down Auburn's offense

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