Game Thread: USA vs Belgium - Altidore Cleared!

crimsonaudio

Administrator
Staff member
Sep 9, 2002
63,414
67,193
462
crimsonaudio.net
There's zero question that the US generates a ridiculous amount of top-tier athletes every year. If soccer ever gets enough of a foothold that top athletes begin choosing it in HS and college instead of football and basketball, we'll see the US competing on the world stage.
 

RTR91

Super Moderator
Nov 23, 2007
39,407
6
0
Prattville
There's zero question that the US generates a ridiculous amount of top-tier athletes every year. If soccer ever gets enough of a foothold that top athletes begin choosing it in HS and college instead of football and basketball, we'll see the US competing on the world stage.
And that won't happen because of Title IX. College football takes up so many scholarships. Schools can get a men's soccer team if they cut another program, but I doubt many schools want to do that.
 

stlimprov

1st Team
Nov 9, 2005
968
205
67
54
Saint Louis, MO
I love this talk of what-ifs with great US athletes. Let's bring it back to Bama football. If all the players who played for CNS at Bama had been born in a nation where soccer (futbol) was the sport, and so the best soccer players among them ended up forming the national team, how great would that team be? Heck, just take current players. Humphrey, Brown and Cooper at forward. Yeldon, Colling etc. at midfield. Julio Jones (ok not a current player) in goal. I agree a lot would fizzle out because they didn't develop the ball control, but man it's awesome to imagine.
I'd see Julio as more of a Didier Drogba.

It is worth noting that a lot of top athletes that the US produces aren't necessarily of a soccer phenotype. American football as it currently exists emphasizes a lot more physical specialization than soccer allows. There are very few top soccer players who fit into the NBA height range. The sort of bulk size that allows you to survive an D1 football game would probably make it impossible to survive a top flight soccer match. Would guys develop somewhat differently if they were always aiming for a different goal? Sure. But it's not safe to assume that a great athlete in one sport would have been able to be great in another.
 

uafan4life

Hall of Fame
Mar 30, 2001
15,608
7,414
287
43
Florence, AL
There's zero question that the US generates a ridiculous amount of top-tier athletes every year. If soccer ever gets enough of a foothold that top athletes begin choosing it in HS and college instead of football and basketball, we'll see the US competing on the world stage.

The thing is, though, that we're closer than we think. In truth, we are already competing on the world stage.

Look at this World Cup. Yes, we struggled with Ghana and were lucky to get a win. And, yes, we were supposed to beat Ghana - a team that was ranked in the mid 30s on average heading into the tournament. However, Ghana is the team that sent us home from the last two World Cups and that can easily get into a team's head. Ghana also matches up better against our style of play and team strengths than they do against other teams. Finally, losing Altidore so early in the game completely changed the flow of the game and more or less forced us to abandon our game-plan coming in - and did so for pretty much this entire tournament. The player we could probably have least afforded to lose for the tournament was Tim Howard, obviously - though Guzan could have probably filled his shoes pretty well as a keeper, Howard's leadership was key. However, Altidore was a very, very close second - if they weren't 1A and 1B. And, unlike with Guzan for Howard, we have no one on the roster that can really play Altidore's role.

Then, after beating Ghana, we went on to face three Top 10 teams (Belgium is 11th in FIFA's but higher in other rankings) and more than held our own. Between two broken noses and three injured hamstrings to key players, we really had no business really doing anything in the group, much less advancing.

Yet we completely outplayed Portugal and were very unlucky not to win that game by a score of 3-1 or 4-1. We lost to Germany and, while they controlled the flow of the game, our defense kept us in it the entire time - against what may very well be the best team in the world at the moment. Finally, we lost to Belgium in a game where our goal was basically under siege for the entire game. Even so, if Wondolowski makes solid contact and puts a shot on goal - instead of basically whiffing and sending the ball 90 degrees in the wrong direction - in those last few minutes of regular time then we most likely walk out with a win. And, while Belgium was the lowest ranked team of those three, they are most likely quite underrated simply due to how young their team is; they will likely be a consensus Top 5 team for the next few years.


Looking at how we played in this tournament, I honestly believe that we were three players away from being a semifinal team instead of losing in the Round of 16.


Now, a lot of people are harping on our lack of technical ball skills - especially in the midfield - leading to our possession problems but I'm not sure that's as big of a factor as many want to think. I like what van Nistelrooy said about it: we have good defensive midfielders but no true attacking midfielders and we have problems moving the ball forward from the back [switching from defense to offense]. I think that chemistry and vision have as much to do with our possession problems as our lack of technical ball skills. Our back four was largely unsettled heading into the tournament and that makes it much more difficult to develop chemistry between the Backs and Midfielders. We also ended up having to depend upon two key players while playing them out of position: Bradley and Dempsey. Bradley is a true Defensive Center Midfielder and we were forcing him to try to play an Attacking Midfielder role and be the guy moving and distributing the ball up through the midfield. Bradley needs to be the guy in the back of the midfield forcing turnovers and then getting the ball to an Attacking Midfielder who will push the ball forward. We put Dempsey in Altidore's Striker role, since we really had no one else, when Dempsey really needs to be a Center Forward working behind and then to the flank(s) of a true Striker. Had we been able to give our back four and midfielders a year of playing together in friendlies to develop more chemistry and been able to play Bradley and Dempsey in their natural positions then we very well may have had more productive possession, better flow in moving the ball forward, and better creativity in our attacking.


So, what are the three players I believe we needed to have a legitimate shot at winning this World Cup?

First, a second Josie Altidore. :)
Seriously, we needed someone else who could come in and play a true Number 9 role at Striker - whether Josie would have gotten injured or not. Lukaku, who we saw up close in this last game, would be perfect for that role - able to come in late after Josie has put in 70 hard minutes or as a serviceable replacement so we wouldn't have to change our whole offensive strategy.

Second (and third), we needed two true Attacking Midfielders. Bradley did fairly well, considering that he was playing out of position, but just never was able to flip the switch and get comfortable in that role. He showed flashes but it was really too much to ask. Zusi served as a serviceable option for the second CAM/RM role but, to be honest, he needs to be the backup for that position. Two relatively young players we saw in the last two games the U.S. played, Eden Hazard of Belgium and Mesut Ozil of Germany, would be the perfect "missing links" in our midfield.

The lineup would have looked like this:
4-1-2-1-2
(4-4-2 with diamond midfield)
ST: Altidore / Lukaku
CF/LF: Dempsey / Johansson
CAM: Hazard / Wondolowski
LM: Jones / Yedlin
RM: Ozil / Zusi
CDM: Bradley / Beckerman
LB: Beasley
CB: Besler
CB: Cameron
RB: Johnson
 
Last edited:

uafan4life

Hall of Fame
Mar 30, 2001
15,608
7,414
287
43
Florence, AL
Ah...we just need Lukaku, Ozil, and Hazard.

Wait...are you arguing that we're close, or that we'll never get there? :)

You could also say that we just needed Ozil, Hazard, and a guarantee that Altidore doesn't get injured. :)


Seriously, though, I am saying that we're closer than most people seem to be thinking at the moment. The way several of the talking heads are sounding, it's like we need 5 or 6 players instead of just 2 or 3; as if we need a couple of new defenders and an entirely new midfield.


Also, right now I've got Yedlin pegged as the #2 at the LM slot. However, with his speed, if he can develop his ball skills and vision a bit then with a little more experience he might be able to fill the starting RM slot. We would still need that true #10 at the CAM slot - who would need to be a Landon Donovan type "revelation" of a player for us - since Wondo coming into that slot would really be a shift to a 4-3-3 with Altidore at ST, Dempsey at LF, and Wondo at RF.


And, of course, as we saw with Altidore this time we would really want to have another #10 CAM player waiting in the wings - or at least someone who can serviceably fill that role so we don't have to change schemes - in case of an injury.
 

crimsonaudio

Administrator
Staff member
Sep 9, 2002
63,414
67,193
462
crimsonaudio.net
I think we're close, player-wise, but every game I watched I was amazed at the general footwork issues we had in comparison tot he other teams - consistently poor passing, bad timing, lack of communication within the team. That was my point - if soccer ever becomes a real alternative to elite athletes in HS and college, we'll dominate.

We were in every game, but left a LOT on the table due the above issues. We looked like an all-star college team playing professionals much of the time - we have the horses but lack the refinement, imo.
 

uafan4life

Hall of Fame
Mar 30, 2001
15,608
7,414
287
43
Florence, AL
Having thought about it a little more, Mix Diskerud could develop into the type of player we need at that CAM position. I don't know why I didn't think about it earlier, especially since he was wearing the number 10 jersey for us. :) He's played that position a few times for Rosenberg BK when they've used a 4-4-2 formation, though his usual position in their [now default] 4-3-3 formation is at RM - playing a box-to-box Midfielder role but regularly pushing forward into the attack.

If he could have the light-bulb come on, so to speak, and become a little more aggressive and more physical then he could very well end up being THE guy for that #10 CAM role and one of the keys to the USMNT taking that next step. You would prefer that the player filling that role would have shown the instincts and drive for that role by their U-20 play but, if he were to flip that switch, he certainly wouldn't be the first "late bloomer" to become an elite Attacking Midfielder.

And if Julian Green can develop a little more discipline and show good field vision to go with it then he could slot into that second Attacking Midfielder role. He's certainly got a nose for attacking and currently plays Right Winger for Bayern Munich's second team, which is basically a hybrid Right Midfielder - Right Forward role. Yedlin is another young player that, with a little more discipline, could easily move into a midfield role. He currently plays RB but it's really more of a RWB role, so a RM role isn't that much of a stretch.


Actually, if those dominoes fall properly into place then we might have already seen the players that could form the starting 11 in the next World Cup - with a legitimate shot to win it. We would need to find several key backups at certain positions (ST, CAM, LM/RM, CDM) who can step into the same role as the starter, which is easier said than done. However, I could see this starting 11 - with the aforementioned development of certain players - going toe to toe with anyone in fours years at the next World Cup (if not two years in the Olympics):

4-1-2-1-2
(4-4-2 with diamond midfield)
[player's age in 2018]
ST: J. Altidore [28]
CF/RF: A. Johannsson [27]
CAM: M. Diskerud [27]
LM: J. Green [23]
RM: D. Yedlin [24]
CDM: M. Bradley [30]
LB: T. Chandler [28]
CB: O. Gonzales [29]
CB: J. Brooks [25]
RB: F. Johnson [30]
GK: B. Guzan [33]

 

MBA_99

1st Team
Jan 11, 2010
913
37
52
A, A
It is worth noting that a lot of top athletes that the US produces aren't necessarily of a soccer phenotype. American football as it currently exists emphasizes a lot more physical specialization than soccer allows. There are very few top soccer players who fit into the NBA height range. The sort of bulk size that allows you to survive an D1 football game would probably make it impossible to survive a top flight soccer match. Would guys develop somewhat differently if they were always aiming for a different goal? Sure. But it's not safe to assume that a great athlete in one sport would have been able to be great in another.
Sure. I cycled through a lot of great Bama athletes' names before I arrived at the ones I listed. If Dont'a Hightower or Marcel Dareus were born in Europe, they might have been great pack players on a Rugby squad, but would not have played football (soccer) past age 13. Fortunately for us, they were born here.
 

uafan4life

Hall of Fame
Mar 30, 2001
15,608
7,414
287
43
Florence, AL
CA is right. We need to step it up across the board. But if we can find just one great offensive player, then I truly believe we can make a deep run. One thing that many may not have noticed--because it's hard to see a negative--was our absolute lack of a counter ability. A lot of goals, maybe even most goals, are scored on turnovers. But we never had an offensive player down field we could pass it to. So time after time, we'd have a break opportunity and nothing to do with it.

But you know, soccer isn't a very athletic sport so we should be able to just throw some average guys out there and dominate.

That was Altidore's job - to be the guy that can receive those deep balls on counters, control the ball, and either get a shot on goal or lay it off to an open runner to put a shot on goal. That's just not Dempsey's forte; he needs to be that second guy running into space for Altidore to pass the ball to for his shot. Johannsson and Wondolowski are in the same boat. Green has both the speed and finishing ability for a counter but he needs the ball to be put over the top into space so he can run into it - which usually means a pass down the sideline, not the middle of the field. For that type of counter to work, you still need that guy in the center to be a legitimate threat all by himself - to take a pass or cross from Green, take on a defender, and get a shot on goal - in order to keep the defenders honest so Green has room to work in the corners to either cross it or dribble past a defender into the box for a shot on goal.
 
Last edited:

stlimprov

1st Team
Nov 9, 2005
968
205
67
54
Saint Louis, MO
I'd love to be wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised if Yedlin has a career arc more like Demarcus Beasley.

Dempsey is just a weird fit into almost any lineup we put out. Arguably, our best field players over the last decade (Dempsey and Donovan) are tweeners without a real position, and we lack some of the other pieces that allow guys like that to play as a wildcard.

We're in that range where on a given day we can beat anyone. Over the last 20 years, the worldwide gap between #8-50 or so has considerably tightened. But it is worth noting that only 7 nations have appeared in the final since 1970, and only 6 different nations have won. The reality is that "close" translates into a lot of losing by one to Belgiums and Germanys, which was satisfying at first, but is beginning to lose its sweetness.
 

New Posts

Latest threads

TideFans.shop : 2024 Madness!

TideFans.shop - Get YOUR Bama Gear HERE!”></a>
<br />

<!--/ END TideFans.shop & item link \-->
<p style= Purchases made through our TideFans.shop and Amazon.com links may result in a commission being paid to TideFans.