Incoming Players' Numbers Released

RTR91

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Miller and holcombe better get extra plates at the training table or they will find themselves playing safety instead of LB.
I wouldn't count on that. We aren't going to see too many LBs getting up to 250 or 260, especially the OLBs.
 

TiderJack

Hall of Fame
Jul 9, 2010
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I wouldn't count on that. We aren't going to see too many LBs getting up to 250 or 260, especially the OLBs.
This^^^^. With the HUNH you will see more of our LB's at lower weight than in the past. They will possibly gain a little of muscle weight and as RTR says you won't see us with the bigger OLB's such as Courtney Upshaw in the future.
 

gtgilbert

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I wouldn't count on that. We aren't going to see too many LBs getting up to 250 or 260, especially the OLBs.
go check out stanfords OLBs. both OLB starters for 2013 were 260 the backups were 245+. They've been among the best, if not the best defense against the HUNH and have stayed with somewhat bigger guys at OLB... One projected starter this year is 255 and the other is 240. You can't ask a 215 pounder to hold up at the LOS against a run oriented HUNH team - no way that could ever work.

The two deep at ILB were all around 230 with the Mike at 245.

Not saying miller and holcombe need to get up to 260, but if they are going to play OLB, they're going to have to be a lot bigger than 215 - that's safety size not LB size. Holcombe might be slated for that anyway. We need another S on the roster and he might fit the bill as the tweaner S/LB essentially like Vinnie was.
 

TiderJack

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go check out stanfords OLBs. both OLB starters for 2013 were 260 the backups were 245+. They've been among the best, if not the best defense against the HUNH and have stayed with somewhat bigger guys at OLB... One projected starter this year is 255 and the other is 240. You can't ask a 215 pounder to hold up at the LOS against a run oriented HUNH team - no way that could ever work.

The two deep at ILB were all around 230 with the Mike at 245.

Not saying miller and holcombe need to get up to 260, but if they are going to play OLB, they're going to have to be a lot bigger than 215 - that's safety size not LB size. Holcombe might be slated for that anyway. We need another S on the roster and he might fit the bill as the tweaner S/LB essentially like Vinnie was.
We are all saying what we have heard from coaches and recruits about our change in philosophy for the HUNH. We will still have some bigger LB's for power teams also but still not as big as what we have been used to.
 

RTR91

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Nov 23, 2007
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go check out stanfords OLBs. both OLB starters for 2013 were 260 the backups were 245+. They've been among the best, if not the best defense against the HUNH and have stayed with somewhat bigger guys at OLB... One projected starter this year is 255 and the other is 240. You can't ask a 215 pounder to hold up at the LOS against a run oriented HUNH team - no way that could ever work.

The two deep at ILB were all around 230 with the Mike at 245.

Not saying miller and holcombe need to get up to 260, but if they are going to play OLB, they're going to have to be a lot bigger than 215 - that's safety size not LB size. Holcombe might be slated for that anyway. We need another S on the roster and he might fit the bill as the tweaner S/LB essentially like Vinnie was.
According to Stanford's website, the 2013 roster had 2 OLBs weigh more than 245:

48 Anderson, Kevin OLB 6-4 244
3 Davis, Noor OLB 6-4 235
34 Kalambayi, Peter OLB 6-3 236
43 Lueders, Blake OLB 6-5 260
93 Murphy, Trent OLB 6-6 261
53 Rotto, Torsten OLB 6-2 235
67 Shober, Sam OLB 6-3 226
33 Tyler, Mike OLB 6-5 219
9 Vaughters, James OLB 6-2 254
 

gtgilbert

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actually there are three above 250 and one at 244 just shy of your mark, but regardless of the point you can't count, that doesn't negate the fact that last year both starters were in the 260 pounds range. The projected starters this year are indeed, 255 and 236.

conversely, they only have two guys at OLB below 230, and between them they have seen action in one single game in their stanford careers and have amassed a single tackle so clearly the bigger guys are playing a lot more than the really small guys and none of their small guys are only 215 lbs.


According to Stanford's website, the 2013 roster had 2 OLBs weigh more than 245:

48 Anderson, Kevin OLB 6-4 244
3 Davis, Noor OLB 6-4 235
34 Kalambayi, Peter OLB 6-3 236
43 Lueders, Blake OLB 6-5 260
93 Murphy, Trent OLB 6-6 261
53 Rotto, Torsten OLB 6-2 235
67 Shober, Sam OLB 6-3 226
33 Tyler, Mike OLB 6-5 219
9 Vaughters, James OLB 6-2 254
 

Con

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Seems to be a trend with Clowney, Pagan and now Hand (along with others). Saban was recently quoted as saying he did not understand the single digit trend a lot of high school kids want.
Give me a linebacker wearing #97 any day.


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RollTide1224

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Feb 18, 2008
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go check out stanfords OLBs. both OLB starters for 2013 were 260 the backups were 245+. They've been among the best, if not the best defense against the HUNH and have stayed with somewhat bigger guys at OLB... One projected starter this year is 255 and the other is 240. You can't ask a 215 pounder to hold up at the LOS against a run oriented HUNH team - no way that could ever work.

The two deep at ILB were all around 230 with the Mike at 245.

Not saying miller and holcombe need to get up to 260, but if they are going to play OLB, they're going to have to be a lot bigger than 215 - that's safety size not LB size. Holcombe might be slated for that anyway. We need another S on the roster and he might fit the bill as the tweaner S/LB essentially like Vinnie was.
Perhaps we are going to have a versatile defense...you know where against passing heavy teams guys like Miller and Holcombe have a very important role and against power run heavy teams we will have different body types play a more prominent role. It's really not that hard to understand. I think Saban has made it pretty clear that we lacked some of the type of players necessary to combat these teams and these are the type of guys that they think will help us.

We still have plenty of massive OLBs we don't need them all to be identical in skill set and body type.

When you look at the way college offenses are trending it seems to be increasingly less important to have a bunch of 260lb LBs. We need to have rangy athletes who can play in space as well as rush the passer.
 

Nolan

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Jul 4, 2006
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According to Stanford's website, the 2013 roster had 2 OLBs weigh more than 245:

48 Anderson, Kevin OLB 6-4 244
3 Davis, Noor OLB 6-4 235
34 Kalambayi, Peter OLB 6-3 236
43 Lueders, Blake OLB 6-5 260
93 Murphy, Trent OLB 6-6 261
53 Rotto, Torsten OLB 6-2 235
67 Shober, Sam OLB 6-3 226
33 Tyler, Mike OLB 6-5 219
9 Vaughters, James OLB 6-2 254
actually there are three above 250 and one at 244 just shy of your mark, but regardless of the point you can't count, that doesn't negate the fact that last year both starters were in the 260 pounds range. The projected starters this year are indeed, 255 and 236.

conversely, they only have two guys at OLB below 230, and between them they have seen action in one single game in their stanford careers and have amassed a single tackle so clearly the bigger guys are playing a lot more than the really small guys and none of their small guys are only 215 lbs.
Both of you make good points. Our LB corps tends to have the greatest variation in body types. I don't see Miller or Evans getting heavier than the 230s. They're both tall so that helps. Yes we do need more speed from the front 7 but I think Stanford's success against the HUNH, in particular Oregon, is more of their simplified scheme and focus on aggressive penetration rather than body types. JMO.
 

gtgilbert

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Both of you make good points. Our LB corps tends to have the greatest variation in body types. I don't see Miller or Evans getting heavier than the 230s. They're both tall so that helps. Yes we do need more speed from the front 7 but I think Stanford's success against the HUNH, in particular Oregon, is more of their simplified scheme and focus on aggressive penetration rather than body types. JMO.
agreed about the scheme being more simplified and that being a major reason they have been successful. Their D lines up ready to go without a lot of looking over to the sideline. We're going to have to figure that out.

That also makes the point that you don't have to focus singularly on smaller guys to defend the HUNH. It's about making sure they are ready to go and getting penetration, which stanford did with bigger OLBs over the last few years. The other key thing is that to beat the read option like Auburn runs there are two major requirements. #1 - set the edge. The OLB or DE absolutely MUST maintain outside leverage and contain; #2 - Hold the middle. The DTs/NGs must either penetrate to disrupt, or at least not be moved and take up multiple blocks to let the ILBs clean up. Stanford actually took this approach moreso than getting the inside DL upfield.

That said, over the last few years Stanford did not have a single LB below 230 pounds make any meaningful contribution to the team, not even on special teams. Miller and Holcombe are 215 right now, so I will stand by my assessment that both will need to add meaningful weight. Maybe not up into the 260 range, but certainly up at least the 230's - OR - we might see a position change to S since we are thin there (or will be after this year losing Williams and Perry and likely Collins). We run more of the nickle package than anything else anyway - even against traditional teams like LSU we run it a lot, especially if we have success on first down so realistically the nickle S is going to get more PT than the SAM will anyway.
 

RTR91

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Nov 23, 2007
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Here are two different articles where Keith Holcombe says he wants to be 225.

From January:

His father has been helping the 6-foot-4, 215-pounder add muscle almost every morning this offseason. Holcombe has about 10 more pounds to go, but says he's unsure what position he'll play at Alabama.

And it doesn't matter.

"To be honest I have no idea," he said. "It all depends on how my offseason keeps going. and how much bigger I get. Wherever they want me, put me. I'll do my best. I just want to play."
On Signing Day:

"My dad, kidding around, always called me Cory Reamer," Holcombe said. "He always went out there, and maybe wasn't the biggest or the fastest or the strongest, but he's going to play ball. He knew how to play. That's what I do when I go out there."

Reamer came to Alabama with a similar frame and expectations in 2005. The 6-foot-3, 200 pound freshman from Hoover worked his way into the starting lineup for the 2009 national championship team. He bulked up to 234 pounds by then and made 50 tackles in his final season.
...

Adding muscle is part of his plan before moving over to UA this summer. He'd like to add 10 pounds to be a "solid 225." Alabama coaches told him they want to work at either middle or outside linebacker, but they want him mobile.

"They want me to keep my speed up," Holcombe said. "They talked about me playing on special teams early and that's fine with me. But wherever they put me, I'm going to give it my all."

Holcombe was clocked at 4.4 seconds in the 40-yard dash last summer. He's just eager to move across town and play in front of 101,000 on Saturdays.
Christian Miller from last July on why he committed:

With the recruiting process out of the way, Miller said the rest of his summer will be centered around improving himself both physically and technically as a football player.

"I've been focusing on my strength and conditioning this offseason. I want to be able to give 100 percent on every single snap of every game. I was working on my weight for a while but then the Alabama coaching staff told me they are actually happy with where I am right now so I'm just going to continue to try and improve as a player."
Both players may had some weight to get closer to 230-235, but I don't expect them to bulk up to Xzavier Dickson's 265.

Looked up the weight of our LBs and was surprised to see this:

11 Shaun Dion Hamilton (FR, 6-0/240)
56 Tim Williams LB (SO, 6-3/235)
18 Reggie Ragland (JR, 6-2/259)
57 D. J. Pettway (JR, 6-2/255)
9 Reuben Foster (SO, 6-1/244)
34 Tyler Owens (SR, 6-0/220)
47 Xzavier Dickson (SR, 6-3/265)
55 Josh Dickerson (SR, 6-1/244)
30 Denzel Devall (JR, 6-2/250)
35 Walker Jones (FR, 6-2/234)
7 Ryan Anderson (SO, 6-2/255)
25 Dillon Lee (JR, 6-4/242)
33 Trey DePriest (SR, 6-2/245)

Overall, seems like the LBs have gotten smaller. Miller and Holcombe will be used similar to Williams, who is 235. He began playing some towards the end of the season. I believe we're beginning to see a shift. It's not going to be a gigantic one, but we are going to some smaller, faster versatile LBs that will be able to play multiple positions.
 

gtgilbert

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Aug 12, 2011
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Here are two different articles where Keith Holcombe says he wants to be 225.

From January:



On Signing Day:



Christian Miller from last July on why he committed:



Both players may had some weight to get closer to 230-235, but I don't expect them to bulk up to Xzavier Dickson's 265.

Looked up the weight of our LBs and was surprised to see this:

11 Shaun Dion Hamilton (FR, 6-0/240)
56 Tim Williams LB (SO, 6-3/235)
18 Reggie Ragland (JR, 6-2/259)
57 D. J. Pettway (JR, 6-2/255)
9 Reuben Foster (SO, 6-1/244)
34 Tyler Owens (SR, 6-0/220)
47 Xzavier Dickson (SR, 6-3/265)
55 Josh Dickerson (SR, 6-1/244)
30 Denzel Devall (JR, 6-2/250)
35 Walker Jones (FR, 6-2/234)
7 Ryan Anderson (SO, 6-2/255)
25 Dillon Lee (JR, 6-4/242)
33 Trey DePriest (SR, 6-2/245)

Overall, seems like the LBs have gotten smaller. Miller and Holcombe will be used similar to Williams, who is 235. He began playing some towards the end of the season. I believe we're beginning to see a shift. It's not going to be a gigantic one, but we are going to some smaller, faster versatile LBs that will be able to play multiple positions.
Actually, over the last 5 games of the season, Williams only played against UTC so he actually played more early than late and it was all mop-up time - not meaningful game reps (participation chart is at www.rolltide.com). The other significant time he got was against GSU and ARK...

Our LB core has always been versatile:
Anders played Sam and Jack
Reamer played Sam and Will
Hightower played Will, Mike and Rush End/Jack.
Harris was a Will and Sam
Hubbard played Will, Sam and Jack
Dickson has played Jack and now some Sam

Up till Hubbard became the Sam, we'd usually had a quicker/smaller guy there - that's not new. Anders, Reamer, C Williams, Harris. They all ran 230-240. Again, hubbard was the exception and Dickson would be as well if he stays at Sam, but I think if Lee stays out of trouble he'll get the call, and he's just over 240 so in the same range as many of the others. it's likely we will get back to where the Sam and Jack aren't interchangeable like they were with Hubbard so the Sam will be a bit more specialized and could be the nickle will LB as was in the past.

I do think it's very possible we will see the Will spot evolve to be more Mosley than Hightower, although with Depriest and Ragland slated as starters we're going to have almost as much bulk in the middle as we had with Hightower and McClain. Tyler Hayes would have fit the Mosley mold had he not been an idiot. Some of these guys could very well fit that as well and be smaller than some of the 250+ guys we have inside in the past. Sounds like this is a possibility for Holcombe for sure or maybe he will play both like many others before him have.

That said, even Mosley was 235, and the articles mention the guys wanting to gain weight up to 225 solid by the time the season starts, which would be entirely consistent with my original statement that these guys needed to grab an extra plate at the training table. The article where Miller says the coaches were happy with his weight said he was 222 then, so getting back up around that weight would seem to be in the cards if that's where the coaches were happy with him; again, consistent with my first statement.
 

RTR91

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Nov 23, 2007
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Actually, over the last 5 games of the season, Williams only played against UTC so he actually played more early than late and it was all mop-up time - not meaningful game reps (participation chart is at www.rolltide.com). The other significant time he got was against GSU and ARK...

Our LB core has always been versatile:
Anders played Sam and Jack
Reamer played Sam and Will
Hightower played Will, Mike and Rush End/Jack.
Harris was a Will and Sam
Hubbard played Will, Sam and Jack
Dickson has played Jack and now some Sam

Up till Hubbard became the Sam, we'd usually had a quicker/smaller guy there - that's not new. Anders, Reamer, C Williams, Harris. They all ran 230-240. Again, hubbard was the exception and Dickson would be as well if he stays at Sam, but I think if Lee stays out of trouble he'll get the call, and he's just over 240 so in the same range as many of the others. it's likely we will get back to where the Sam and Jack aren't interchangeable like they were with Hubbard so the Sam will be a bit more specialized and could be the nickle will LB as was in the past.

I do think it's very possible we will see the Will spot evolve to be more Mosley than Hightower, although with Depriest and Ragland slated as starters we're going to have almost as much bulk in the middle as we had with Hightower and McClain. Tyler Hayes would have fit the Mosley mold had he not been an idiot. Some of these guys could very well fit that as well and be smaller than some of the 250+ guys we have inside in the past. Sounds like this is a possibility for Holcombe for sure or maybe he will play both like many others before him have.

That said, even Mosley was 235, and the articles mention the guys wanting to gain weight up to 225 solid by the time the season starts, which would be entirely consistent with my original statement that these guys needed to grab an extra plate at the training table. The article where Miller says the coaches were happy with his weight said he was 222 then, so getting back up around that weight would seem to be in the cards if that's where the coaches were happy with him; again, consistent with my first statement.
I see your point now. I took your original statement to the extreme since so many expect Bama to have huge guys at LB rather than guys in 230-245 range.
 

TidePride50

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Jan 16, 2010
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I think Mario Williams was the first that I can remember back in 2004 at NC State. He was #9....and the 1st pick in the draft.


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First one I remember was Leonard Little at Tennessee in mid 90s. Played DE and word #1.


RTR '14
 
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