World War II Daily: DDay to VEDay

Status
Not open for further replies.

Tidewater

Hall of Fame
Mar 15, 2003
22,401
13,177
287
Hooterville, Vir.
Re: Normandy daily - 1944

Yah, Hitler was 'gone' by this point, he had officially lost his grip on reality, imo. It can be argued he lost it before attacking Russia, which I believe everyone knew was a disaster as it unfolded.
Kluge executed the Mortain counter-attack because der Fuhrer ordered it, but all he was trying to do was close the gap between Mortain and Avranches.
Hitler had some grandiose idea about rolling up the First US Army's right flank and throwing the Allies back into the sea and all that. Crazy.
The next few days (70 years ago) literally turned the tide of the war. The Russians were absolutely mauling the Germans to the east and Mortain was the beginning of the end in the west for the Nazis...
Yep, Op Bagration was a "shoeing," as the Brits would say.
 

TIDE-HSV

Senior Administrator
Staff member
Oct 13, 1999
84,552
39,660
437
Huntsville, AL,USA
Re: Normandy daily - 1944

Hitler, as was usual late in the war, was micromanaging from the Wolf's Lair.
He released the Panthers and Mark IVs too late to participate in the Mortain counterattack, but early enough to end up mostly being destroyed in the Falaise Pocket.

Looking at your map, Hitler wanted to just ignore Patton's Third Army in the short term to concentrate everything on Mortain. Patton was not going to sit on his hands and Hitler was crazy to ignore Third Army running around Brittany and the Loire Valley. The smart German play (which Kluge recommended) was to start pulling back as fast as they could. The cork was out of the bottle.
That's what happens when you put a corporal in charge of generals. Hitler's contempt for his general officers was open and often expressed. You can think of him as a very good OC. Having him in charge of the defense was a disaster. By this time, he had totally descended into megalomania. He saw Germany as an extension of himself. Near the end, he expressed that, if Germany lost, then it needed to be destroyed...
 

Tidewater

Hall of Fame
Mar 15, 2003
22,401
13,177
287
Hooterville, Vir.
Re: Normandy daily - 1944

That's what happens when you put a corporal in charge of generals. Hitler's contempt for his general officers was open and often expressed. You can think of him as a very good OC. Having him in charge of the defense was a disaster.
I think that was due to AH being hyper-aggressive in 1936, 1938 and 1939. He came to see his generals as too cautious.
By this time, he had totally descended into megalomania. He saw Germany as an extension of himself. Near the end, he expressed that, if Germany lost, then it needed to be destroyed...
I think that was a scene from the film Downfall. That was one of those scenes you wish could have been filmed and shown to Germans, and if you had a time machine, shown to Germans in 1933. Might have been a different outcome. I mean, wiping out the Jews is one thing (that most Germans today condemn in unequivocal terms, but probably not Germans in 1933), but seeing AH being so callous towards the German Volk, that would have made an impact on German voters. That attitude was simply a logical extension of his social Darwinist racial attitudes, however. If you lose, it's because you deserved to lose. Losing to Brits and Americans (vaguely Germanic peoples) was bad enough, but it had to really kill AH that it was the slavic untermensch that was taking down the Reich, though.
 

crimsonaudio

Administrator
Staff member
Sep 9, 2002
63,414
67,193
462
crimsonaudio.net
Re: Normandy daily - 1944

I think that was a scene from the film Downfall. That was one of those scenes you wish could have been filmed and shown to Germans, and if you had a time machine, shown to Germans in 1933. Might have been a different outcome. I mean, wiping out the Jews is one thing (that most Germans today condemn in unequivocal terms, but probably not Germans in 1933), but seeing AH being so callous towards the German Volk, that would have made an impact on German voters. That attitude was simply a logical extension of his social Darwinist racial attitudes, however. If you lose, it's because you deserved to lose. Losing to Brits and Americans (vaguely Germanic peoples) was bad enough, but it had to really kill AH that it was the slavic untermensch that was taking down the Reich, though.
Agreed - if the people knew how his 'logic' extended, surely they would have rebelled.

And 'Downfall' is an excellent film. Tough to watch at times, but highly recommended.
 

bamachile

Hall of Fame
Jul 27, 2007
7,992
1
55
56
Oakdale, Louisiana
Re: Normandy daily - 1944

I think that was due to AH being hyper-aggressive in 1936, 1938 and 1939. He came to see his generals as too cautious.
The price of winning huge early gambles is a failure to understand the value of prudence from that point onward. Given Herr Schicklgruber's grandiosity, those early successes made any efforts to argue with him impossible, even for favorites like Guderian.
 

Tidewater

Hall of Fame
Mar 15, 2003
22,401
13,177
287
Hooterville, Vir.
Re: Normandy daily - 1944

And 'Downfall' is an excellent film. Tough to watch at times, but highly recommended.
Plus, it is the source of endless parody film snippets. I personally like the one in which AH is the college professor being told he has to teach Friday classes.
"If I wanted to work on Fridays, I wouldn't have gone to an Ivy League school. I could have gone to Ohio State. At least I would have seen some decent football!"
 

TIDE-HSV

Senior Administrator
Staff member
Oct 13, 1999
84,552
39,660
437
Huntsville, AL,USA
Re: Normandy daily - 1944

I always thought it was worth a chuckle that he had to bring back and rehabilitate Heinrici, a defensive specialist, for the final futile effort to defend Berlin...
 

Tidewater

Hall of Fame
Mar 15, 2003
22,401
13,177
287
Hooterville, Vir.
Re: Normandy daily - 1944

I always thought it was worth a chuckle that he had to bring back and rehabilitate Heinrici, a defensive specialist, for the final futile effort to defend Berlin...
AH went through generals so fast, I guess he had to recycle some of the earlier discards.
One of the poignant scenes form Downfall (which I realize is fiction, but a decent historical reconstruction) when AH orders Steiners "Corps" to counterattack and relieve Berlin. I don't know, but I'd wager that by late April Steiner's "Corps" consisted of 100 guys and a two trucks. Yeah, counterattack Zhukov's 1st Belorussian Front. That'll end well...
 

TIDE-HSV

Senior Administrator
Staff member
Oct 13, 1999
84,552
39,660
437
Huntsville, AL,USA
Re: Normandy daily - 1944

AH went through generals so fast, I guess he had to recycle some of the earlier discards.
One of the poignant scenes form Downfall (which I realize is fiction, but a decent historical reconstruction) when AH orders Steiners "Corps" to counterattack and relieve Berlin. I don't know, but I'd wager that by late April Steiner's "Corps" consisted of 100 guys and a two trucks. Yeah, counterattack Zhukov's 1st Belorussian Front. That'll end well...
By the time he'd taken to the bunker, he'd departed reality entirely. Of course, he was also being poisoned by his naturopath "doctor."
 

TIDE-HSV

Senior Administrator
Staff member
Oct 13, 1999
84,552
39,660
437
Huntsville, AL,USA
Re: Normandy daily - 1944

AH went through generals so fast, I guess he had to recycle some of the earlier discards.
One of the poignant scenes form Downfall (which I realize is fiction, but a decent historical reconstruction) when AH orders Steiners "Corps" to counterattack and relieve Berlin. I don't know, but I'd wager that by late April Steiner's "Corps" consisted of 100 guys and a two trucks. Yeah, counterattack Zhukov's 1st Belorussian Front. That'll end well...
His intransigence and refusal to allow even the most strategic retreat cost untold thousands of German lives. OTOH, it probably shortened the war. I'll always be thankful that he dismissed e=mc2 as "Jewish physics." If the people at Peenemunde had been turned loose on that, who knows what might have happened...
 

crimsonaudio

Administrator
Staff member
Sep 9, 2002
63,414
67,193
462
crimsonaudio.net
Re: Normandy daily - 1944

August 7, 1944: General Montgomery is planning the attack on the south of Caen, which will begin tomorrow. While Allied artillery bombards the German positions in and around the city, the Highland Light Infantry belonging to the Canadian 3rd Infantry division attacks towards Buron, 3 miles to the northwest of Caen. Completely encircled in this village, elements of the 12nd SS Panzerdivision open up heavy fire on the Canadian troops, slowing their progress. Each house has been transformed into a ‘fortress’ and an anti-tank ditch dug around Buron obstructs the Allied forces, leaving them exposed to the German defenders. The fighting lasts most of the day, and the losses on both sides are high: the Canadians have lost more than 260 soldiers (a quarter of which KIA). The village is still not entirely under control and the British artillery takes over, bombarding Buron in the evening.

In the west, Hitler’s counterattack, dubbed Operation Lüttich by the Allies (though now often referred to as the ‘Mortain counter-offensive’), begins in an effort to eliminate the gains made by the American 1st Army during Operation Cobra and the following week(s). Hitler’s goal was to reach the coast in the region of Avranches (at the base of the Cotentin peninsula), effectively cutting off the units of the American 3rd Army, which had advanced into Brittany. The main German striking force is the XLVII Panzer Corps, with one and a half SS Panzer Divisions and two Wehrmacht Panzer Divisions. Although they make initial gains against the defending American VII Corps, they were soon stopped and Allied aircraft inflict severe losses on the attacking troops pinning them down while they lost more than 150 tanks over the course of a few hours (nearly half of the German tanks involved in the attack).

The American artillery ceases its bombardment of the village of Saint-Fromond to allow the infantry American 30th Infantry division to attack. After violent fighting the northern bank of the city is under control and the US soldiers begin crossing the channel Vire-Taute to secure access to the bridge, which is of vital importance for the Allies. This makes it possible for the Sherman tanks to join the southern bank of Saint-Fromond and to continue the progress towards Saint-Lo, located just over 4 miles from the village. Immediately after having secured the bridge, the 11th American Cavalry Group begins sending its tanks.


West of Saint-Fromond, the small village of Saint-Jean-de-Daye is liberated by elements of the American 30th Infantry division, which then progresses immediately to the south. The Germans are pushed, but a few hours later establish a defense line prohibiting any further progress. The support of American artillery is required to silence the German resistance points.

Since the Normandy landing, from June 6 to July 7, 1944, the Germans have had 80,783 casualties (killed, wounded, disappeared or POW).

Pictured: Burning German vehicles abandoned after a successful Allied airstrike during Operation Luttich, evening edition of The Baltimore News-Post



 

Tidewater

Hall of Fame
Mar 15, 2003
22,401
13,177
287
Hooterville, Vir.
Re: Normandy daily - 1944

August 7, 1944: ... 
West of Saint-Fromond, the small village of Saint-Jean-de-Daye is liberated by elements of the American 30th Infantry division, which then progresses immediately to the south. The Germans are pushed, but a few hours later establish a defense line prohibiting any further progress. The support of American artillery is required to silence the German resistance points.

Since the Normandy landing, from June 6 to July 7, 1944, the Germans have had 80,783 casualties (killed, wounded, disappeared or POW).
This is about the time to mention one of my personal heroes, Major General Pete Quesada. After some incidents of USAAF fighter-bombers accidentally bombing US Army ground troops in Normandy, Quesada got the idea of putting US fighter pilots with the front line troops. The pilots rode in tanks with VHF radios to vector in fighter-bomber support. As the US Army raced across northern France, these "Forward Air Controllers" determined ground unit needs, and spoke "pilotese" to the air support, and got the right support at the right place and the right time. Armored columns had overhead air cover who would conduct armed reconnaissance, report what was ahead of the armored column, enemy numbers and disposition, possible bypass routes, and when necessary, provide air support for attacks. This made both the USAAF and the ground units more effective and greatly reduced fratricide.
Despite the danger of serving as FACs, Quesada got so many volunteers that he had to turn away applicants. A creative solution to a real problem. Great American.
 

Tidewater

Hall of Fame
Mar 15, 2003
22,401
13,177
287
Hooterville, Vir.
Re: Normandy daily - 1944

In a sign of problems to come, the port of Cherbourg at the northern tip of the Carentan peninsula, was not opened to port operations on 16 July, but "port operations there were not to become important until the end of the month." Breakout and Pursuit, p. 209.
 

crimsonaudio

Administrator
Staff member
Sep 9, 2002
63,414
67,193
462
crimsonaudio.net
Re: Normandy daily - 1944

This is about the time to mention one of my personal heroes, Major General Pete Quesada.
There are sooo many cases of simply brilliant ideas like this, some large, some small, that each helped turn the war in our favor. It's simply amazing, the longer and deeper I study the history of WWII, how many of these sort of simply brilliant ideas sprang from various people.
 

Tide1986

Suspended
Nov 22, 2008
15,670
2
0
Birmingham, AL
Re: Normandy daily - 1944

There are sooo many cases of simply brilliant ideas like this, some large, some small, that each helped turn the war in our favor. It's simply amazing, the longer and deeper I study the history of WWII, how many of these sort of simply brilliant ideas sprang from various people.
 

TIDE-HSV

Senior Administrator
Staff member
Oct 13, 1999
84,552
39,660
437
Huntsville, AL,USA
Re: Normandy daily - 1944

This is about the time to mention one of my personal heroes, Major General Pete Quesada. After some incidents of USAAF fighter-bombers accidentally bombing US Army ground troops in Normandy, Quesada got the idea of putting US fighter pilots with the front line troops. The pilots rode in tanks with VHF radios to vector in fighter-bomber support. As the US Army raced across northern France, these "Forward Air Controllers" determined ground unit needs, and spoke "pilotese" to the air support, and got the right support at the right place and the right time. Armored columns had overhead air cover who would conduct armed reconnaissance, report what was ahead of the armored column, enemy numbers and disposition, possible bypass routes, and when necessary, provide air support for attacks. This made both the USAAF and the ground units more effective and greatly reduced fratricide.
Despite the danger of serving as FACs, Quesada got so many volunteers that he had to turn away applicants. A creative solution to a real problem. Great American.
My brother wiped out a Dutch village with a navigation error. It bothered him until the end of his days. Blue on blue happens in warfare...
 

Tidewater

Hall of Fame
Mar 15, 2003
22,401
13,177
287
Hooterville, Vir.
Re: Normandy daily - 1944

My brother wiped out a Dutch village with a navigation error. It bothered him until the end of his days. Blue on blue happens in warfare...
Yeah, I acknowledge that it is an inexact science.
I heard a Canadian infantryman tell me he had been in the Canadian Army for ten years before he heard of Royal Canadian Artillerymen referred to as anything other than "****ing gunners!" because of all the short rounds that landed in proximity to himself and his men. Any time you ask for fire support, you are running the risk that the supporters are going to make a mistake. If the fire support is close to friendlies, then you run the risk of being on the receiving end of whatever they are delivering.

Quesada's genius was coming up with a structural response that made both the 9th Tactical Air Command and the 1st and 3rd Armies much more effective. He did so without inventing any new technology or new weapons systems. He just took a new look at structure. He asked himself, "What do the guys on the ground need? And what do the guys in the air need to provide the ground guys what they want?"

I feel for your brother, but, as long as he was doing the right stuff and trying to hit bad guys and miss good guys, I would attach no blame to him. I'd bet the Dutch attached no blame to him. Bad stuff happens in war. You do the best you can.
 
Last edited:

crimsonaudio

Administrator
Staff member
Sep 9, 2002
63,414
67,193
462
crimsonaudio.net
Re: Normandy daily - 1944

August 8, 1944: The Germans, having lost approximately half of the 300 tanks in Operation Luttich, continue their vast counterattack. But they no longer have the element of surprise and the Americans now have seven divisions (including two armored divisions) attached to the 7th Corps of General Collins (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Lawton_Collins), ready to counter the troops of the German 7th Army of General Hausser (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Hausser).

To the east, the Canadians launch Operation Totalize (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Totalize). The Polish 1st Armored Division takes part in the offensive and attacks the German 85th Infantry division to the east, while Allied bombers attack the areas of Bretteville-sur-Laize, Haut-Mesnil, Cauvicourt and Saint-Sylvain in the southeast of Caen. The 2nd and 53rd British and Canadian divisions attack in the west through the Forêt de Cinglais (Cinglais Forest), and the Canadian 4th Armored division moves along the Caen-Falaise road.

General Bradley notices the German Army is surrounded and proposes a new operation to Eisenhower - it is a unique opportunity for the Allies to defeat the German Army in the west of France.

Also today, Colonel Piron’s Belgian Group lands in Arromanches - the Belgian soldiers will attack the Germans defending the littoral in the northeast of Caen in a few days, moving in the direction of Deauville.

Pictured: Canadian forces awaiting the end of bombing raids during Operation Totalize, a U.S. infantryman takes aim at a sniper during street fighting in Saint-Malo



 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest threads

TideFans.shop : 2024 Madness!

TideFans.shop - Get YOUR Bama Gear HERE!”></a>
<br />

<!--/ END TideFans.shop & item link \-->
<p style= Purchases made through our TideFans.shop and Amazon.com links may result in a commission being paid to TideFans.