Cop in MO kills unarmed black teen

TIDE-HSV · Aug 19, 2014

Just an observation, but, according to the family's pathologist, the killing shot was the one to the top of the skull. There are a couple of ways that could have happened, but all of them lead to it's being the last shot in the cop's clip. He'd already filled this 6'4", 300 lb man with lead. I don't know what he was shooting, but certainly nothing below 9mm. More probably, it was .40. Best case for the policeman, the attacker was charging with his head down. Intermediate is that he was falling as that last shot was fired. The most unlikely scenario, IMO, was an execution shot to the head. I doubt this one seriously. Standard police training is to fire until the attacker is still and on the ground. I know this: he was terrified by this time. There had already been the altercation at the cruiser. There seems to be no controversy that there was one shot fired there. I don't know how big the magazine was, but the cop had to be at the bottom of it. He keeps shooting and this young giant keeps coming. This is a nightmare situation for a young cop. I'm certain as I can be, from my research on the policeman, that he didn't want to kill this kid or anyone else. The routine which follows after a weapon is drawn and fired, much less a fatality, is unpleasant for the LEO, which it probably should be. Wilson probably had a backup gun (BUG) and was trying to think about how he was going to reach it. I'm just not ready to believe that this young officer with a clean record emptied six shots into a man standing still with his arms in the air, then fired a final shot into the top of his head while prone. Just doesn't compute...

pluckngrit · Aug 19, 2014

Why hasn't Al Sharpton been arrested for continually enciting a riot? CNN, NBC, ABC, CBS aren't exactly helping things either.

BamaJama17 · Aug 19, 2014

Ohh dear this is already worse than the Trayvon Martin case.

twofbyc · Aug 19, 2014

Bamabuzzard said:
Just think of the rioting if this officer gets cleared of any wrong doing.

That's why the feds are involved - they know the truth will need to be altered before it comes out, or Ferguson will burn for a long time. That is the sad part - IMO, all of those against this rioting and looting should leave Ferguson (thanking God they are still alive) and the NG should burn it to the ground, with all of the rioters and looters in it. They don't want the truth, they want "their" justice, never mind the facts. Sorry, but they don't deserve to breathe.

JBama_in_PCOLA · Aug 19, 2014

TIDE-HSV said:
Just an observation, but, according to the family's pathologist, the killing shot was the one to the top of the skull. There are a couple of ways that could have happened, but all of them lead to it's being the last shot in the cop's clip. He'd already filled this 6'4", 300 lb man with lead. I don't know what he was shooting, but certainly nothing below 9mm. More probably, it was .40. Best case for the policeman, the attacker was charging with his head down. Intermediate is that he was falling as that last shot was fired. The most unlikely scenario, IMO, was an execution shot to the head. I doubt this one seriously. Standard police training is to fire until the attacker is still and on the ground. I know this: he was terrified by this time. There had already been the altercation at the cruiser. There seems to be no controversy that there was one shot fired there. I don't know how big the magazine was, but the cop had to be at the bottom of it. He keeps shooting and this young giant keeps coming. This is a nightmare situation for a young cop. I'm certain as I can be, from my research on the policeman, that he didn't want to kill this kid or anyone else. The routine which follows after a weapon is drawn and fired, much less a fatality, is unpleasant for the LEO, which it probably should be. Wilson probably had a backup gun (BUG) and was trying to think about how he was going to reach it. I'm just not ready to believe that this young officer with a clean record emptied six shots into a man standing still with his arms in the air, then fired a final shot into the top of his head while prone. Just doesn't compute...

Thanks for the insight. I'm still trying to piece together what happened in the squad. I believe that it would give us more information to what happened. So much speculation...

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JBama_in_PCOLA · Aug 19, 2014

twofbyc said:
That's why the feds are involved - they know the truth will need to be altered before it comes out, or Ferguson will burn for a long time. That is the sad part - IMO, all of those against this rioting and looting should leave Ferguson (thanking God they are still alive) and the NG should burn it to the ground, with all of the rioters and looters in it. They don't want the truth, they want "their" justice, never mind the facts. Sorry, but they don't deserve to breathe.

"They don't want truth, they want 'their' justice, never mind the facts."

Well put! As much as I leaned in favor of the victim, seemingly the cop may have been in the right. Still, there's a lot of unanswered questions.

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Bazza · Aug 19, 2014

I'm meeting with a new client this morning - an ex-cop from NJ. I will get his take.

I just watched the end of an appearance on CNN by Trayvon Martin's mother, Sabrina - and she actually made a very good suggestion - that concerned community blacks meet with police officials in an environment where no one feels threatened. Unlike where they are "meeting" now - the street. Good to hear something that makes sense - not that her advice will necessarily be taken - but at least she's saying something helpful - unlike the race baiters Sharpton and Jackson.

CajunCrimson · Aug 19, 2014

I'm guessing those that picked an event to escalate to a National Level -- the "Police vs Blacks" argument sure wish they had picked another case. Because I have no doubt that there are bad cops who have picked on innocent black "kids".... but this one was a bad choice......whoever is leading the charge behind the scenes isn't too good at picking situations to take advantage of....

PacadermaTideUs · Aug 19, 2014

TIDE-HSV said:
Just an observation, but, according to the family's pathologist, the killing shot was the one to the top of the skull. There are a couple of ways that could have happened, but all of them lead to it's being the last shot in the cop's clip. He'd already filled this 6'4", 300 lb man with lead. I don't know what he was shooting, but certainly nothing below 9mm. More probably, it was .40. Best case for the policeman, the attacker was charging with his head down. Intermediate is that he was falling as that last shot was fired. The most unlikely scenario, IMO, was an execution shot to the head. I doubt this one seriously. Standard police training is to fire until the attacker is still and on the ground. I know this: he was terrified by this time. There had already been the altercation at the cruiser. There seems to be no controversy that there was one shot fired there. I don't know how big the magazine was, but the cop had to be at the bottom of it. He keeps shooting and this young giant keeps coming. This is a nightmare situation for a young cop. I'm certain as I can be, from my research on the policeman, that he didn't want to kill this kid or anyone else. The routine which follows after a weapon is drawn and fired, much less a fatality, is unpleasant for the LEO, which it probably should be. Wilson probably had a backup gun (BUG) and was trying to think about how he was going to reach it. I'm just not ready to believe that this young officer with a clean record emptied six shots into a man standing still with his arms in the air, then fired a final shot into the top of his head while prone. Just doesn't compute...

One other possibility, which could explain the disparity between those accounts which say Brown was charging and those which say Brown was surrendering:

Brown indeed taunted Wilson saying he wouldn't shoot, then initiated a bull rush. Wilson began firing at least 6 shots in quick succession. As 4 rounds pepper Brown's arm and shoulder, he begins to realize his miscalculation and quickly starts heading to the ground to surrender. Remember, we're talking about all of this happening in a split second. Wilson, not yet realizing in that split second that Brown has changed his approach, fires off the final two rounds: the first entering Brown's right eye, exiting his jaw, and entering his collarbone, and the second entering the top of his skull.

Under this scenario, those who can put themselves in the shoes of someone trying to defend themselves from a charging 6'4" 300lb man will interpret this incident as self-defense, while those who can put themselves in the shoes of a majority population who feels systemically harassed by a minority in power will interpret this incident as a police execution of someone who's surrendering. In fact, under this scenario, he was surrendering. But only after charging. And in the split second that this all occurred, Wilson wasn't able to realize that Brown was giving up.

crimsonaudio · Aug 19, 2014

I'm curious to see how all this turns out, but I'm glad people are protesting - we're seeing discussions happen that we've needed to have for a long time, including:
- the militarization of the police
- the reality that racism still exists in the US
- the disintegration of the family unit in black America and its cost

These are all tough things to discuss - primarily because they're easy to forget if they aren't directing affecting you but also because, just like in most every other discussion we have in the US now, there are those on each side of the aisle with a wildly eschewed view of reality.

The more people we have discussing these issues, the better, imo.

NationalTitles18 · Aug 19, 2014

JBama_in_PCOLA said:
"They don't want truth, they want 'their' justice, never mind the facts."

Well put! As much as I leaned in favor of the victim, seemingly the cop may have been in the right. Still, there's a lot of unanswered questions.

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It was implied to me yesterday that white folks waiting on the facts (to determine justice) is racist. I am completely dumbfounded.

PacadermaTideUs · Aug 19, 2014

NationalTitles15 said:
It was implied to me yesterday that white folks waiting on the facts (to determine justice) is racist. I am completely dumbfounded.

I've heard it said over and over again that Wilson should immediately be arrested for murder regardless - that the facts will come out in court.

CajunCrimson · Aug 19, 2014

crimsonaudio said:
I'm curious to see how all this turns out, but I'm glad people are protesting - we're seeing discussions happen that we've needed to have for a long time, including:
- the militarization of the police
- the reality that racism still exists in the US
- the disintegration of the family unit in black America and its cost

These are all tough things to discuss - primarily because they're easy to forget if they aren't directing affecting you but also because, just like in most every other discussion we have in the US now, there are those on each side of the aisle with a wildly eschewed view of reality.

The more people we have discussing these issues, the better, imo.

I'm fine with this as long as we discuss the fact that Racism isn't a one-way street, but a multi-directional interstate highway system of prejudice.....

Tidewater · Aug 19, 2014

PacadermaTideUs said:
I've heard it said over and over again that Wilson should immediately be arrested for murder regardless - that the facts will come out in court.

Sounds good in theory. Just being charged, even if acquitted is a very expensive proposition. Maybe the city picks up the tab. If the defense gets a change of venue, I'd foresee folks in Ferguson crying foul. If he doesn't get a change of venue, I'd see very little chance of an acquittal.
Lose-lose.
And for the record, I don't pretend to know enough about this case either way, just that going to court is costly.

pluckngrit · Aug 19, 2014

crimsonaudio said:
I'm curious to see how all this turns out, but I'm glad people are protesting - we're seeing discussions happen that we've needed to have for a long time, including:
- the militarization of the police
- the reality that racism still exists in the US
- the disintegration of the family unit in black America and its cost

These are all tough things to discuss - primarily because they're easy to forget if they aren't directing affecting you but also because, just like in most every other discussion we have in the US now, there are those on each side of the aisle with a wildly eschewed view of reality.

The more people we have discussing these issues, the better, imo.

You're glad people are protesting? Too bad they can't police themselves a little (A LOT) better. There's better ways to have discussions than to ruin a whole town and add fuel to the race problem some people seem to always be dragged down with.

Racism still exists in America? You think? It's gotten exponentially worse since Obama and Co. have fanned the flames.

These discussions have been going on for years, when the black community decides to step up and boot the Jesse's and Al's of the world who have created a huge industry built around race and lies. They are the scum of the earth, not unlike terrorist or the old ku klux klann.

Gr8hope · Aug 19, 2014

Black Racism is Politically Correct

"When you want to help people, you tell the truth. When you want to help yourself, you tell people what they want to hear."

jthomas666 · Aug 19, 2014

I still don't really know what happened--there are too many things that don't quite make sense. Regardless of Wilson's guilt or innocence, however, a lot of blame must be placed at the feet of the Ferguson PD, who have screwed things up at every turn.

Much has been made of the video of Brown allegedly stealing some cigars; I ran across a post yesterday--can't post the link, due to language issues, but it purported to have the complete security video, in which Brown clearly pays for the cigars. The post claims that Brown then tried to get some more cigars, but didn't have enough money, but there was no "confrontation".

At this point, I don't know what the truth is. But I'm pretty sure that when the truth does come out, that someone needs to go to jail regarding that video, because one way or another, someone deliberately created an inflammatory in a situation that's clearly equivalent to yelling "fire" in a crowded theater.

Also, because you find the funny in odd places sometimes, here's this:

A CNN talking head wondered why the police didn't just use water cannons to disperse the crowd. Her co-anchor's look is priceless.

ValuJet · Aug 19, 2014

That didn't work out too well the first time.

cbi1972 · Aug 19, 2014

PacadermaTideUs said:
One other possibility, which could explain the disparity between those accounts which say Brown was charging and those which say Brown was surrendering:

Brown indeed taunted Wilson saying he wouldn't shoot, then initiated a bull rush. Wilson began firing at least 6 shots in quick succession. As 4 rounds pepper Brown's arm and shoulder, he begins to realize his miscalculation and quickly starts heading to the ground to surrender. Remember, we're talking about all of this happening in a split second. Wilson, not yet realizing in that split second that Brown has changed his approach, fires off the final two rounds: the first entering Brown's right eye, exiting his jaw, and entering his collarbone, and the second entering the top of his skull.

Under this scenario, those who can put themselves in the shoes of someone trying to defend themselves from a charging 6'4" 300lb man will interpret this incident as self-defense, while those who can put themselves in the shoes of a majority population who feels systemically harassed by a minority in power will interpret this incident as a police execution of someone who's surrendering. In fact, under this scenario, he was surrendering. But only after charging. And in the split second that this all occurred, Wilson wasn't able to realize that Brown was giving up.

There is a lesson here and it is not "Reassess threat level after every shot to ensure the safety of your assailant"
It is "Don't attack people"

TheAccountant · Aug 19, 2014

jthomas666 said:
Much has been made of the video of Brown allegedly stealing some cigars; I ran across a post yesterday--can't post the link, due to language issues, but it purported to have the complete security video, in which Brown clearly pays for the cigars. The post claims that Brown then tried to get some more cigars, but didn't have enough money, but there was no "confrontation".

So it was all just a misunderstanding? The call to police from the clerk about the robbery was a misunderstanding? The clear confrontation at the door was something else? Brown's friend lied when he admitted to the authorities that Brown "did take the cigarillos"?

Cop in MO kills unarmed black teen

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