Cop in MO kills unarmed black teen

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Jon

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This study on camera's showed an 88 percent decline in complaints against officers a 60% reduction in police use of force

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/07/b...meras-for-police-officers.html?pagewanted=all


THE Rialto study began in February 2012 and will run until this July. The results from the first 12 months are striking. Even with only half of the 54 uniformed patrol officers wearing cameras at any given time, the department over all had an 88 percent decline in the number of complaints filed against officers, compared with the 12 months before the study, to 3 from 24.

Rialto’s police officers also used force nearly 60 percent less often — in 25 instances, compared with 61. When force was used, it was twice as likely to have been applied by the officers who weren’t wearing cameras during that shift, the study found. And, lest skeptics think that the officers with cameras are selective about which encounters they record, Mr. Farrar noted that those officers who apply force while wearing a camera have always captured the incident on video.
 

Jon

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Another telling aspect of this (as was in the Trayvon Martin case) is that the rioting and all the accusations of he was shot BECAUSE he was black seem to happen immediately or shortly after the incident. The marches begin and the race angle takes off. It seems no one waits on information to come out to support the claim. The media gives air time to these claims to feed the frenzy and then sure enough, slowly but surely more information slowly comes out chipping away at the original accusations that the media has given the bulk of the air time to.

Again, I'm in agreement that the officer shouldn't shot the guy (based on the evidence we have now, but who knows what else will come out). But now that I've learned more about the incident the officer didn't simply shoot the guy "because he was black". Which is what's being suggested through the media and being said by those being interviewed in that community.
you seem to know something as a fact that we don't

how do you know he wasn't shot just because he was black? (for the record I am not saying he was, I am simply asking you where you have come across evidence that he was not?)
 

Catfish

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...we have a cop claiming that the kid went for his gun and attacked him so he fought back and shot
Don't most, or all, police cruisers have dashboard cameras with sound? If there was a struggle, I realize the dashcam probably didn't catch any video of it, but wouldn't it have picked up some audio?
 

stlimprov

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1. They didn't actually say he was a suspect in the earlier incident. They just kind of threw this one out there at the same time that they announced the officer's name, without explicitly declaring that there was a connection. You know...6 days later. This couldn't possibly be aimed at creating distraction, could it?
2. The altercation part is not clearly established. Interestingly, the police version of this did not come out immediately, which struck me as a bit odd, and even then is fairly vague. There's nothing that currently corroborates the "reaching for the gun" part; to me, that sounds a bit boilerplate. It is worth comparing the Ferguson PD account with that account given by the young man who was walking with Brown.
3. The police response to this as a riot situation was pretty quick. I believe there is dispatch recording indicates that the Ferguson PD were calling for riot support at a point when they were still claiming to dispatch contacts to know nothing about the incident (the dispatch was catching this via local news). The QT incident occurred before the response was a major focus of the news narrative. I'd point out that the QT incident was not part of the main group of protesters; as such, I do think it is important the be careful about describing it as "community violence" in a way that suggests that is was consistent with the behavior of the vast majority of the community. In fact, one of the things about this is that those incidents have been a MUCH smaller and more isolated part of the entire story than has been suggested by much media coverage. There have been a lot of people out in Ferguson, and the vast, vast majority of them would easily be described as peaceful protesters.

I say all this living in the city, 20 minutes drive away from there. I didn't go up, but I have a number of friends who have, and their observations don't jive with the portrayal of a citizenry intent on self-destruction. I know a number of people who live or have lived in Ferguson, and they have been at pains to point out that Ferguson was not a war zone before this.

I'm not claiming to have been there.
 

92tide

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1. They didn't actually say he was a suspect in the earlier incident. They just kind of threw this one out there at the same time that they announced the officer's name, without explicitly declaring that there was a connection. You know...6 days later. This couldn't possibly be aimed at creating distraction, could it?
2. The altercation part is not clearly established. Interestingly, the police version of this did not come out immediately, which struck me as a bit odd, and even then is fairly vague. There's nothing that currently corroborates the "reaching for the gun" part; to me, that sounds a bit boilerplate. It is worth comparing the Ferguson PD account with that account given by the young man who was walking with Brown.
3. The police response to this as a riot situation was pretty quick. I believe there is dispatch recording indicates that the Ferguson PD were calling for riot support at a point when they were still claiming to dispatch contacts to know nothing about the incident (the dispatch was catching this via local news). The QT incident occurred before the response was a major focus of the news narrative. I'd point out that the QT incident was not part of the main group of protesters; as such, I do think it is important the be careful about describing it as "community violence" in a way that suggests that is was consistent with the behavior of the vast majority of the community. In fact, one of the things about this is that those incidents have been a MUCH smaller and more isolated part of the entire story than has been suggested by much media coverage. There have been a lot of people out in Ferguson, and the vast, vast majority of them would easily be described as peaceful protesters.

I say all this living in the city, 20 minutes drive away from there. I didn't go up, but I have a number of friends who have, and their observations don't jive with the portrayal of a citizenry intent on self-destruction. I know a number of people who live or have lived in Ferguson, and they have been at pains to point out that Ferguson was not a war zone before this.

I'm not claiming to have been there.
as to point #1, the whole thing seems a bit fishy. i scanned a page of the report and the way it is stated is that he was deemed a "primary suspect" after the fact. the officer that wrote the report responded to the shooting and stated in the report "after viewing brown [at the shooting scene] and reviewing the video i was able to confirm that brown was the prime suspect in the robbery"

a page of the report

the robbery happened at 11:53 or so and the shooting occurred at 12:01. i would be surprised if the police responded to the store/911 call and got a detailed enough profile/apb out for a shoplifting incident at a convenience store. it just seems to be something that comes out of cya mode.
 
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Bamabuzzard

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you seem to know something as a fact that we don't

how do you know he wasn't shot just because he was black? (for the record I am not saying he was, I am simply asking you where you have come across evidence that he was not?)
I didn't know that when a white officer shot a black criminal that it was automatically assumed he shot him because he was black and now the burden of proof is on the officer and t he PD to prove otherwise. You don't see a problem with that?
 

92tide

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true, but going for a cops gun is.
first of all, my post was in response to the assertion that since brown (allegedly) was the one who committed the robbery, then its okay that "lil homey" was shot an killed.

we do not know what happened in the vehicle (and surprising enough, the pd is not releasing any info about the shooting), multiple shots were fired outside the vehicle (one has to assume that the two were disentangled at this point for the officer to get out with control of his gun) and the officer brown never got the gun. so, even assuming he went for the gun, after the situation deescalated, there was no need for more shooting after brown had already been hit
 

CajunCrimson

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first of all, my post was in response to the assertion that since brown (allegedly) was the one who committed the robbery, then its okay that "lil homey" was shot an killed.

we do not know what happened in the vehicle (and surprising enough, the pd is not releasing any info about the shooting), multiple shots were fired outside the vehicle (one has to assume that the two were disentangled at this point for the officer to get out with control of his gun) and the officer brown never got the gun. so, even assuming he went for the gun, after the situation deescalated, there was no need for more shooting after brown had already been hit
If he had gotten the gun.....would it have been okay to shoot him then?
 
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