Cop in MO kills unarmed black teen

I don't see the problem with releasing the surveillance tape - I would think it would be helpful.

Just like introducing evidence in a trial.

And I am not saying anything in that tape justifies his being shot.

crimsonaudio said:

This is interesting - veterans weighing in on the police in Ferguson.

https://storify.com/AthertonKD/veterans-on-ferguson

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I agree - some of these tactics are a little over the top.....geez.

crimsonaudio said:

And THIS is why the black community rightfully mistrusts PD's like Ferguson.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...erguson-cops-were-caught-in-a-bloody-lie.html

Don't think this response came out of nowhere - it's been building for years.

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It definitely leads to the belief that there is a culture that does not feel there is any accountability in this department.

crimsonaudio said:

This is interesting - veterans weighing in on the police in Ferguson.

https://storify.com/AthertonKD/veterans-on-ferguson

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You have to be intentionally blind to not see the growing disconnect between LEO's and the American public. This militarization - or whatever anyone wants to call it - is as unnecessary as it is obvious. I hesitate to throw words such as fascism and tyranny into the conversation (and I still think they're a wee bit hyperbolic) but it is becoming hard to describe what is happening before our eyes without using terms that I never thought would apply to America in my lifetime.

crimsonaudio said:

And THIS is why the black community rightfully mistrusts PD's like Ferguson.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...erguson-cops-were-caught-in-a-bloody-lie.html

Don't think this response came out of nowhere - it's been building for years.

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Don't think this response is going to remain confined to Ferguson, either. Albuquerque and Salinas have already boiled over, and there is steam rising from many other pots. The long, hot summer of 1967 could get a reprise.

OK I get it now.

It's not the release of the tape.

It's the TIMING of the release that's being questioned.

Goes to CREDIBILITY and COMPETENCE of police chief/dept.

Carry on...

Wow, that is dirty.

crimsonaudio said:

And THIS is why the black community rightfully mistrusts PD's like Ferguson.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...erguson-cops-were-caught-in-a-bloody-lie.html

Don't think this response came out of nowhere - it's been building for years.

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This has been the strangest case, or whatever, I have seen. I don't know who's story to believe. The cop didn't know he was a suspect, he tried to pull the guy in the squad car, or did he(?), cop shoots the guy twice only to dump the clip into him after he has his hands raised. What is really going on?

TIDE-HSV said:

The extra shots are damning. You're supposed to stop the threat, but you're not supposed to assume the duty of execution. I'm not sure yet that the young officer won't face prosecution, just because the local office decided on no charges...

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I just don't know what to think of it. At first, I thought the young guy played a part in his own murder by robbing the store. Then I found out that the cop didn't even know he was a suspect. You could say he should have been in the street, but even that sounds iffy. Like you said though, just emptying the clip (if that happened) is just wrong on someone who isn't posing a threat.

Another thing, one thing that got me is the amount of time he laid dead in the street before he was moved. Hours? I'm surprised there were no cops shot in that time, especially with the supposed eye witnesses.

JBama_in_PCOLA said:

This has been the strangest case, or whatever, I have seen. I don't know who's story to believe. The cop didn't know he was a suspect, he tried to pull the guy in the squad car, or did he(?), cop shoots the guy twice only to dump the clip into him after he has his hands raised. What is really going on?

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Yep. Weird case. A lot of stuff doesn't add up. Honestly, nobody's story makes sense, even if it wasn't contradicted by everybody else's story. So I'm reserving judgement on this case until the actual facts come out rather than what somebody said somebody saw.

That said, due to the background included in CA's link above along with how the department has conducted itself so far in this case, I'm not at all reserving judgement on FPD in general. Those guys seem like a bunch of untrained, unsupervised, unaccountable jackboots who get a kick out of wearing a badge, waving a gun, and stepping on the throats of the citizens they're supposed to be serving. As far as I'm concerned, they're the last folks we ought to be militarizing.

TIDE-HSV said:

I've had numerous Iraq and Afghan vets chime in that, not only are these guys better armed than they, they're doing crowd control all wrong. Here's the manual:

http://armypubs.army.mil/doctrine/DR_pubs/dr_a/pdf/atp3_39x33.pdf

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These guys are definitely armed better than your average conventional infantry force. Of course, I'm not sure if the pictures we're all seeing from Ferguson are conventional PD or if they're all SWAT (Special Weapons And Tactics), the police force equivalent of military Special Forces, and are often equipped similarly.

TIDE-HSV said:

I've had numerous Iraq and Afghan vets chime in that, not only are these guys better armed than they, they're doing crowd control all wrong. Here's the manual:

http://armypubs.army.mil/doctrine/DR_pubs/dr_a/pdf/atp3_39x33.pdf

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When the US Military conducts crowd control, I think each individual has a clear understanding that we're not at war with the crowd. We may be at war with a force that's inciting the crowd. But usually, we're not at war with the crowd itself, Somalia '93 notwithstanding. I think that's a distinction that FPD is failing to make.

PacadermaTideUs said:

Yep. Weird case. A lot of stuff doesn't add up. Honestly, nobody's story makes sense, even if it wasn't contradicted by everybody else's story. So I'm reserving judgement on this case until the actual facts come out rather than what somebody said somebody saw.

That said, due to the background included in CA's link above along with how the department has conducted itself so far in this case, I'm not at all reserving judgement on FPD in general. Those guys seem like a bunch of untrained, unsupervised, unaccountable jackboots who get a kick out of wearing a badge, waving a gun, and stepping on the throats of the citizens they're supposed to be serving. As far as I'm concerned, they're the last folks we ought to be militarizing.

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Yep, one thing that really stuck out in what you said was unaccountable. That article CA put pretty showed me that nobody was being held to an acceptable standard. Even the new chief is missing the mark. I'm not saying that the kid should have stay in the road and no followed what the officer said, but what happened is a bit much.

I just wish Black folk would wait to see what happens then react. Then again, they don't know how to react. I don't condone the reaction neither do I understand it. It's a proper way to handle things in my book no matter how hurt you are. Both accounts, killing by the cop and looting by the protest, are uncalled for. Eh, what can I do but type a post on TideFans. Football season where are you?!?

JBama_in_PCOLA said:

I just don't know what to think of it. At first, I thought the young guy played a part in his own murder by robbing the store. Then I found out that the cop didn't even know he was a suspect. You could say he should have been in the street, but even that sounds iffy. Like you said though, just emptying the clip (if that happened) is just wrong on someone who isn't posing a threat.

Another thing, one thing that got me is the amount of time he laid dead in the street before he was moved. Hours? I'm surprised there were no cops shot in that time, especially with the supposed eye witnesses.

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I don't know what to think either. Did the police officer over-react in the situation or did the young man exhibit the same behavior to the officer that he did to the clerk in the Quick Mart or whatever that convenience store is called. How many shots were fired by the police officer? Were all of those shots fired because it was necessary for the safety of the officer or was he firing after the young man could no longer pose any problems/threats for/to him? Was there a need to fire any shots? Did he call for back-up for assistance so that there would be no need for anyone's death? Was there a struggle with the young man while the officer was in the car? Was a pistol fired while/if there was a struggle while the officer was still in the car? Why was the young man and his friend in the street? Was this officer alone while he was on patrol?

Here's hoping the leadership of the sheriff, et al will help to cool things down. Maybe he needs to run for mayor in the near future. He has shown wisdom that others seem to be lacking. I don't think the Police Chief was effective in communicating facts that could be released. I'm not even sure the Governor of Missouri was effective in communicating to the citizens of Missouri regarding this incident.

Burning the town down and looting and destroying stores solves no problems. It creates more problems. The US economy is bad enough without destroying local needed jobs.

Then, here's hoping the powers that be: legal, et al will do their job effectively. Justice must be done. Justice takes time. Quick justice could be an injustice. I'm still trying to analyze what CNN, et al are trying to do. Are they trying to rake in a bigger audience or they trying to do the RIGHT thing and help report the facts and help solve problems.

I sure believe in protesting grievances, but in a Mahatma Gandhi and Martin Luther King, Jr. kind of way.

We need POSITIVE leadership to step to the plate, not negative so-called leaders like the Rev. Al Sharpton or the Rev. Jessie Jackson. We need a Martin Luther King, Jr. type of leader to step forward.

selmaborntidefan said:

I love how often "the black community" is always represented as "a group of people." Maybe if some bad apples were actually condemned by the same "community organizers" who thrive on stirring racial tension (and keeping their jobs, maybe white cops and black community organizers could actually come to the sort of understanding that would prevent more of these things from happening.

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I live in what, if I'm not mistaken, is (statistically) the most diverse neighborhood in the City of Saint Louis. Statements like this not reflect the complexity of the conversation that I've encountered. At all.

Then again, I don't turn on a television, so there's that, too.

Al A Bama said:

I don't know what to think either. Did the police officer over-react in the situation or did the young man exhibit the same behavior to the officer that he did to the clerk in the Quick Mart or whatever that convenience store is called. How many shots were fired by the police officer? Were all of those shots fired because it was necessary for the safety of the officer or was he firing after the young man could no longer pose any problems/threats for/to him? Was there a need to fire any shots? Did he call for back-up for assistance so that there would be no need for anyone's death? Was there a struggle with the young man while the officer was in the car? Was a pistol fired while/if there was a struggle while the officer was still in the car? Why was the young man and his friend in the street? Was this officer alone while he was on patrol?

Here's hoping the leadership of the sheriff, et al will help to cool things down. Maybe he needs to run for mayor in the near future. He has shown wisdom that others seem to be lacking. I don't think the Police Chief was effective in communicating facts that could be released. I'm not even sure the Governor of Missouri was effective in communicating to the citizens of Missouri regarding this incident.

Burning the town down and looting and destroying stores solves no problems. It creates more problems. The US economy is bad enough without destroying local needed jobs.

Then, here's hoping the powers that be: legal, et al will do their job effectively. Justice must be done. Justice takes time. Quick justice could be an injustice. I'm still trying to analyze what CNN, et al are trying to do. Are they trying to rake in a bigger audience or they trying to do the RIGHT thing and help report the facts and help solve problems.

I sure believe in protesting grievances, but in a Mahatma Gandhi and Martin Luther King, Jr. kind of way.

We need POSITIVE leadership to step to the plate, not negative so-called leaders like the Rev. Al Sharpton or the Rev. Jessie Jackson. We need a Martin Luther King, Jr. type of leader to step forward.

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Oh boy, you brought up Messy Jackson and Al Charlaton. I hope one day when it comes to race relations they decide to stay home. They don't solve anything. They only destroy. Just because they marched with King doesn't mean they know anything. We had leaders before, but you know, we cannibalized them with the likes of the two you talked about.